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Old 04-13-2020, 05:10 PM
lucky strike lucky strike is offline
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Default Who has the right to "reopen" the country...POTUS or Governor's?



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Saw that some of the Northeast governor's created a coalition to coordinate the logistics behind when to get people back to work. Also saw Trump tweet out (I'm assuming in response to a news story about the governors) that he alone had the ultimate authority on when to open things up.

So which is it? States rights issue or does the federal government have final say?

Also saw that Trump named his "council to reopen America" and had the wisdom to put Jared and Ivanka on it. Lucky us.
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:19 PM
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The question is.. Who has the right to shut it down?

We need less .gov! Leave it to local government to determine what needs to be done and when.
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:33 PM
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Governor. We are THESE United States, not THE United States.
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:34 PM
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Governor. We are THESE United States, not THE United States.
We were until the tyrant Lincoln changed it during the war of northern aggression.
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:37 PM
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Neither had the right to obviate the 1st Amendment right to peaceably assemble, or to practice our religion freely. Additionally neither has the right to stop us from traveling

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedo...ted_States_law
Travel within the United States Constitutional freedom. As early as the Articles of Confederation the Congress recognized freedom of movement (Article 4), though the right was thought to be so fundamental during the drafting of the Constitution as not needing explicit enumeration.. The U.S. Supreme Court in Crandall v.Nevada, 73 U.S. 35 (1868) declared that freedom of movement is a fundamenta
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:38 PM
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If Trump is smart, he'll leave it to the Governor's.
That way if it goes south, it's not on him. And either way he looks like he's following the Constitution.

He could lift the National Declaration of Emergency, and order any Fed agency back to work, etc... those actions are appropriate.
But leave the Libtard Gov's, like in KY, MI, etc... to over-play their hand and hurt their states. That makes sure they're gone next election.

As much as it shouldn't be political, it ultimately is.
But my real belief is that no one had the right to strip us of our Rights. The Constitution doesn't have an asterisk at the bottom saying, "Unless some people in NY get sick."
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:39 PM
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Trump is the leader of our federation. However, the 10A leaves such things up to the States - within each State. Not allowing inter-State plane travel would be a bummer.

I am not thinking this is so much conflict between POTUS & governors as much as who is the stronger leader. You know whoever acts to "reopen" the country will be criticized but it is the responsible thing to do.

I've been saying some variation of this for weeks now! WHAT we do, "reopen" the country has to happen. The only question is WHEN. I'm reminded of that obsolete refrain. Or is it more than words? Are we the home of the brave or not?

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Old 04-13-2020, 05:52 PM
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Yes.

That being said, the President can make a recommendation based on the team of experts he questions, but each Governor can make the decision based on their respective states.

Many rural states have not had a major problem and a select few states have been hit hard. Utah, Idaho, Montana, North and South Dakota, and several others should not have to be locked down because a few cities were hit hard.
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Old 04-13-2020, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmedman View Post
If Trump is smart, he'll leave it to the Governor's. That way if it goes south, it's not on him. And either way he looks like he's following the Constitution.
If it goes south, they will blame it on him without hesitation. "Why didn't the President do more?" "How could the President have allowed this?"

We already know some of the governors aren't the smartest.
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Old 04-13-2020, 07:09 PM
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Only individuals have rights. Governments have powers.
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Old 04-13-2020, 07:36 PM
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I say let the treasonous, dimocrapper, sanctuary loving gov's and their states fend for themselves. Eventually the people will protest. They cant win against President Trump on this one.

Let them own their own economy and their own problems, for a change.
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Old 04-13-2020, 07:49 PM
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Looks like Trump has the support of most Governors
Only one I see who will try to push against him is the hag from Michigan
She will cave as well
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Old 04-13-2020, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
If it goes south, they will blame it on him without hesitation. "Why didn't the President do more?" "How could the President have allowed this?"

We already know some of the governors aren't the smartest.

Trump's already going to catch the blame anyway.......regardless


I think it should be up to both, as both the Feds and the States have to work with each other.....especially when it comes to interstate transportation

I think its time also, all this is in the planning stages anyway. No one is rushing but the people of this country are hurting and need to get back to work
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Old 04-14-2020, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Human Unit View Post
Only individuals have rights. Governments have powers.
Or seemingly total authority. Looking forward to the outrage when a democrat makes the same statement .
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:48 AM
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president calls all the shots the goveners are just lackys and live in a nice house.
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:13 AM
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It's a bit muddled unless you read the law.

"ALL MEN" have Creator endowed rights - but - citizens voluntarily surrender those rights.

CONSENT OF THE CITIZENRY
Our theory of government and governmental powers is wholly at variance with that urged by appellant herein. The rights of the individual are not derived from governmental agencies, either municipal, state or federal, or even from the Constitution. They exist inherently in every man, by endowment of the Creator, and are merely reaffirmed in the Constitution, and restricted only to the extent that they have been VOLUNTARILY SURRENDERED BY THE CITIZENSHIP to the agencies of government. The people's rights are not derived from the government, but the government's authority comes from the people. The Constitution but states again these rights already existing, and when legislative encroachment by the nation, state, or municipality invade these original and permanent rights, it is the duty of the courts to so declare, and to afford the necessary relief. The fewer restrictions that surround the individual liberties of the citizen, except those for the preservation of the public health, safety, and morals, the more contented the people and the more successful the democracy.
- - - City of Dallas v Mitchell, 245 S.W. 944
https://casetext.com/case/city-of-dallas-v-mitchell-1

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The fewer restrictions that surround the individual liberties of the citizen, except those for the preservation of the public health...
So it appears that the government instituted to secure rights CAN act to preserve the public health even to the point of restricting liberties.
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky strike View Post
Saw that some of the Northeast governor's created a coalition to coordinate the logistics behind when to get people back to work. Also saw Trump tweet out (I'm assuming in response to a news story about the governors) that he alone had the ultimate authority on when to open things up.

So which is it? States rights issue or does the federal government have final say?

Also saw that Trump named his "council to reopen America" and had the wisdom to put Jared and Ivanka on it. Lucky us.

1) Individual rights always trump oppressive governments or tyrants.

2) Counties trump states (or should in most cases)

3) States trump the top-heavy federal government (or should in most cases).


Small government = GOOD
Giant, all-powerful, controlling government = BAD
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:26 AM
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It's the Peoples duly elected White House Media Press pool, of course.
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Old 04-14-2020, 08:14 AM
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Of course it's states right. This ****bag really thinks he can force the reopening of the economy. The "freedom" group is now the anti vaxxors and sheep . This forum went way to political instead of survival based.
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Old 04-14-2020, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmedman View Post
If Trump is smart, he'll leave it to the Governor's.
That way if it goes south, it's not on him. And either way he looks like he's following the Constitution.

He could lift the National Declaration of Emergency, and order any Fed agency back to work, etc... those actions are appropriate.
But leave the Libtard Gov's, like in KY, MI, etc... to over-play their hand and hurt their states. That makes sure they're gone next election.

As much as it shouldn't be political, it ultimately is.
But my real belief is that no one had the right to strip us of our Rights. The Constitution doesn't have an asterisk at the bottom saying, "Unless some people in NY get sick."

Unfortunately ... it will be "on him" no matter what he does. He could invent/discover an all-out cure and CNN, NYTimes, and MSNBC would complain that it didn't taste good or that it wasn't invented quickly enough. There's simply no pleasing the left -- ever!
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