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Old 04-27-2017, 12:00 PM
InOmaha InOmaha is offline
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Blah, blah, Trump's a failure, blah, blah. Repeat verse of the same song.

Tell me this, what other candidate even bothered to mention NAFTA? The other side was going to expand NAFTA to include Asia with the TPP. Trump killed that dead in it's tracks to start with and is now looking to renegotiate NAFTA or leave it. NAFTA doesn't necessarily need to include both Canada and Mexico. We can cancel NAFTA and still trade the same with Canada. Just like we continue to trade with China without the TPP.

He's forcing the swamp people to stick their heads up so we can all see who they are. "Oh wait, don't cancel NAFTA!!! let's talk about it" shows you exactly who in the Republican party benefits the most from globalization.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:09 PM
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Typical Trump.....which is also just general typical politician.
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Moccasin View Post
So you are perfectly happy to maintain the status quo, the policies of the past few administrations that have put us where we are now and keep pushing us along a road nobody likes? As long as you have Justices who are conservative even if in name only on the Court, the rest can go hang?

Well, if you prefer a rancid crumb to a banquet...

And Trump supporters, when reality intrudes on their happy little lotus dream, always immediately start screaming "He's better than Hillary!" This isn't Trump vs. Hillary, this is Trump vs. Trump and what he promised. There were a dozen better GOP candidates, any one of whom could have trounced Hillary much better than Trump did AND would have made real change in Washington. But you chose Trump.

Grow a pair. Own your candidate and his failures.
Last I checked, they don't let failed primary candidates run in the November election.

You can support the primary candidate of your choice but come November you vote for whomever is left standing. Your implication is that everyone voted for Trump in the primary and the November result was their plan all along.

Nice strawman you set up there. Bravo for intellectual dishonesty.

Lots of folks gave their November vote to Trump because Hillary, Johnson, and Stein were the other choices. Hell I normally vote Libertarian and I still went with Trump in November because he was the only one left standing who would put in the SC justices we need.

Everything after Gorsuch is pure gravy.
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JBryan314 View Post
Bull****. That's not really how it works. At all.

Besides, even if you could turn our's out, we could turns your's out. And I'll guarantee this: You need those lights a hell of a lot more than we do.
Canada is energy self sufficient. You are not.
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Just remember.... dammage works 2 ways.
That was my point. A trade war hurts both involved. Let's not have one.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:03 PM
InOmaha InOmaha is offline
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Canada is energy self sufficient. You are not.
And which country needs to run a pipeline through the US to refineries and ports to refine and ship their crappy oil overseas. Run that garbage to Vancouver and process it yoursrlf. :
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:27 PM
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And which country needs to run a pipeline through the US to refineries and ports to refine and ship their crappy oil overseas. Run that garbage to Vancouver and process it yoursrlf. :
As I said, we're self sufficient. We have so much that we export 4 millions barrels a day. Do you? No, you import 10 million barrels a day. You really want to get that from Venezuela and Saudi Arabia rather than us?

Wake up, man.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:08 AM
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And which country needs to run a pipeline through the US to refineries and ports to refine and ship their crappy oil overseas. Run that garbage to Vancouver and process it yoursrlf. :
Hey now, those refineries are where I make my living. Don't go moving that pipe!
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ides of April View Post
As I said, we're self sufficient. We have so much that we export 4 millions barrels a day. Do you? No, you import 10 million barrels a day. You really want to get that from Venezuela and Saudi Arabia rather than us?

Wake up, man.
You are the one who needs to wake up. That Canadian smugness isn't doing you any favors.

This isnt 2002.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

The U.S. imported 10.1 million barrels a day in 2016 AND EXPORTED 5.2 MILLION barrels of petroleum and petroleum products A DAY to 101 countries.

Between the Texas oil fields, the Bakken oil fields in North Dakota and off shore drilling, we are doing fine. Our oil dependency has plummeted like a rock in the last decade. If the Trump administration opens federal lands to drilling like they are planning on, the US could be completely self sufficient and not only NOT need Saudi oil, but we wouldnt need any Canadian oil either.

Quite frankly, had it not been for a government that was trying to fundamentally change our American Capitalist society into something that looks a lot like the government Canada has or worse, the United States probably would have already been completely self-sufficient.

The United States has the largest oil reserve on the planet, even outdistancing Saudi Arabia and Venezuela.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Ge...-Reserves.html

It is Canada who loses in a trade war with the USA. We are talking the difference between the economy of a Hyper-power and the economy of a Middle Power. Its like comparing the combat effectiveness of a Tank vs. a Jeep.

I think in some ways, you fail to grasp the size and influence of the American economy. The economies of the world move like water based on the performance of the USA and it's economy. The economic giants like China, India, Germany and Japan are all totally focused on the US economy, because as goes the United States, so goes the world. The USA could survive a Canadian economic collapse, but the rest of the world including Canada could not survive an American economic collapse.

I'm not trying to bash Canada for the fun of it, but this smug attitude that Canada exports (a little humor there ) based strictly on opinion with no facts to back it up annoys me. Canada needs the USA a whole lot more than the USA needs Canada. If push came to shove, it would be Canada on the bottom. Dont overestimate the necessity of Canada to the USA. The biggest, most valuable, single export that Canada offers the United States is a peaceful Northern border and large buffer between the USA and Russia.

Having said that I think we should maintain a good relationship with Canada, but not to the point that Canada thinks they can push the USA around economically. Those days are over.

I dont think this world fully realizes yet just how fed up the average American is with how the rest of the world has taken advantage of us. Trump's election was a major "in your face" to the rest of the world, not just the democrats.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ides of April View Post
Canada is energy self sufficient. You are not.
Yes as a matter of fact we are now. I hope Trump puts a 15% tax on all Canadian imports from Canada. Canada started taxing my dividends form Canadian companies. If you are going to tax my money coming to me; we may as well tax the goods coming also.
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by IronLegion View Post
The U.S. imported 10.1 million barrels a day in 2016 AND EXPORTED 5.2 MILLION barrels of petroleum and petroleum products A DAY
I'm sorry that you can't do math. Maybe that's something you can work on.
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:58 AM
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I'm sorry that you can't do math. Maybe that's something you can work on.
Lol.....the math is correct.

Your argument is that the amount you export demonstrates your self-sufficiency and that is simply not factual.

Every country in the world INCLUDING CANADA imports oil. In fact, over HALF of Canadian oil imports come from the United States.

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...ek-new-markets

The fact that the USA just imports a lot more of it is largely due to two factors.

First, the United States is one of the largest countries in the world and due to our massive infrastructure, the need for oil is much greater than in other countries, thus making the demand for oil much greater.

Second, we have had a very invasive, tyrannical government in recent times that have pretty much hogtied our energy sector, forcing us to import foreign oil to keep up with our infrastructure. Thank you to George Soros and the global warming monkeys.

Hopefully, this last election will in turn affect a major U-turn for our energy sector. You mark my words on this, as the resources and infrastructure are there. A de-regulated American energy sector will put OPEC and foreign oil out of business or at least drop oil barrel prices to somewhere around the value of the dirt the oil came from.

The US has only been dependent on foreign oil thanks to bad government, not a lack of resources. This is why I say not to overestimate the necessity of Canadian oil to the United States. The only reason we continue to import foreign oil is bad management and a lot of them just got fired in the 2016 election.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ides of April View Post
I'm sorry that you can't do math. Maybe that's something you can work on.
We import more crude because it is a raw material. It's called value added manufacturing.

We intake 10 million barrels and export 5 million, an extra million more than Canada does.

But then we export many refined products that aren't counted in barrels. How do count the millions of tons of raw plastic feedstock as barrels? Just about everything plastic on your computer came from one place. Every bit of plastic in your car, your chairs, your appliances, and every damn thing you see in a plastic package. Hell you couldn't even get your groceries home these days without it.

Then we export gasoline, diesel, and a laundry list of dry and wet petroleum based chemicals so long you would melt the wheel on your plastic mouse before you finished scrolling down.

Hell, we even turn it into food and medicines.

There is no real oil deficit here. We intake the crude and change it into so many things they can no longer categorize it as barrel products.

Your argument makes as much sense as saying a saw mill has a timber deficit because they put lumber out the front door instead of timber.

Instead of trying to play cute with math games you might want to learn the truth instead. America is already oil independent. We just aren't stupid enough to pump crude and pipe it out. We pipe it to refineries and export higher value goods with it.

If you want to talk about energy dependence maybe we should chat about natural gas, that almost always pumps north on this continent. We send Canada about a trillion cubic feet a year now.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by IronLegion View Post
Lol.....the math is correct.

Your argument is that the amount you export demonstrates your self-sufficiency and that is simply not factual.

Every country in the world INCLUDING CANADA imports oil. In fact, over HALF of Canadian oil imports come from the United States.

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...ek-new-markets

The fact that the USA just imports a lot more of it is largely due to two factors.

First, the United States is one of the largest countries in the world and due to our massive infrastructure, the need for oil is much greater than in other countries, thus making the demand for oil much greater.

Second, we have had a very invasive, tyrannical government in recent times that have pretty much hogtied our energy sector, forcing us to import foreign oil to keep up with our infrastructure. Thank you to George Soros and the global warming monkeys.

Hopefully, this last election will in turn affect a major U-turn for our energy sector. You mark my words on this, as the resources and infrastructure are there. A de-regulated American energy sector will put OPEC and foreign oil out of business or at least drop oil barrel prices to somewhere around the value of the dirt the oil came from.

The US has only been dependent on foreign oil thanks to bad government, not a lack of resources. This is why I say not to overestimate the necessity of Canadian oil to the United States. The only reason we continue to import foreign oil is bad management and a lot of them just got fired in the 2016 election.
Yes, yes, the Us is a bigger country that needs more oil than Canada. That's why we sell 4 million barrels of oil to you a day.

Man, you typed a lot.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:09 AM
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Man, you typed a lot.
The right answers aren't always short. This isn't Twitter.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:28 AM
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The right answers aren't always short. This isn't Twitter.
I'm just glad we're friends now and you didn't have to run off to your safe space,
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:42 AM
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How is renegotiating NAFTA a trade war? Bringing up issues and coming to new agreements is not war. Of course we want to put the U.S. first, just as Canada wants to put their interest first. You sit down and negotiate changes that may be needed. After all how much has changed in the last few years that affects trade and business.

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Old 04-28-2017, 09:59 AM
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NAFTA is old and needs tweaking. Even to the point of possibly removing some of the counterparties. Like I said, we will continue trade with Canada even without NAFTA. But call it NAFTA-M (minus Mexico) if it makes everyone happy.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ides of April View Post
I'm just glad we're friends now and you didn't have to run off to your safe space,
So when you run out of actual argument rebuttals you just rely on ad hominem.

Just goes to show your ignorance again.

Let's face it. Now that you realized that what you claim for Canada and the US is the exact opposite and found out you aren't living in an energy independent nation, you are just running away and desperately lobbing insults over your shoulder hoping to save a modicum of face.

Like a preteen playground bully who just got his nosed smashed hard and making lame insults as he runs away.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ides of April View Post
I'm sorry that you can't do math. Maybe that's something you can work on.
Thanks to others it is not necessary to prove you wrong. I will add that much of the crude we import we do so to promote proper efficient blends for refining. As so we are prohibited by law from exporting crude but much of your crude only passes through the USA for export.

Bottom line if every nation had to depend only on its domestic energy sources, refining of and transportation of, the USA would do just fine.

We will take in crude and refine it any day. It creates jobs. It makes non-exported byproducts cheaper.

Energy wise we are just fine.
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