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Old 04-11-2017, 12:21 PM
mauser6863 mauser6863 is offline
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Default ATF Uses Secret Bank Accounts for Fun!!!



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We all know the old joke that says, "Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms" sounds like a good party, not a government agency. Unfortunately, it is also the name of the useless, unneeded and disgraceful federal agency that targets and murders civilians and otherwise abuses their authority.

But have no fear, the agency that can't process a NFA Tax stamp for 9 to 12 months, does have plenty of private (where from?) and public money to spend on themselves. Not even sure how many felonies these guys have committed here. In the past they have gotten away with murder and lesser crimes, so it will be interesting to see what a Trump Justice Department does in this case.

MSN article linked below:

Secret A.T.F. Account Paid for $21,000 NASCAR Suite and Las Vegas Trip

WASHINGTON ó Agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives used a secret, off-the-books bank account to rent a $21,000 suite at a NASCAR race, take a trip to Las Vegas and donate money to the school of one of the agentís children, according to records and interviews.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sec...id=mailsignout
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:28 PM
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The ATF should be disbanded and every employee with the agency should be left jobless.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:34 PM
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This revelation on the ATF should not surprise anyone.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:38 PM
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The ATF should be disbanded and every employee with the agency should be left jobless.
Dude, it's one thing to be against a government agency, but quite another to wish poverty and trouble upon those who are also just doing their job to feed themselves and their families, and provide a roof over their heads.

It's really starting to look just like it's all just a giant pile of revenge which some people want instead of actually trying to get a functioning government.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:45 PM
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Dude, it's one thing to be against a government agency, but quite another to wish poverty and trouble upon those who are also just doing their job to feed themselves and their families, and provide a roof over their heads.

It's really starting to look just like it's all just a giant pile of revenge which some people want instead of actually trying to get a functioning government.
Just doing their job? If working for an agency that directly infringes on Liberty is your job, then that job needs to disappear and you need to find a new one.

The ATF is, and has been for a long time, an inherently anti-Liberty agency. The employees in it have had many years to turn it into something productive and have only made it less so.

A functioning government is a small government. We have no need of the ATF, DHS, HUD, Dept of Education, Etc., and we have no need to absorb all of the employees of those organizations into the others. Part of cutting useless agencies and departments is cutting the jobs. The federal government is far, far too large.

As far as revenge, that is an emotional response. So is scolding someone for wishing poverty or whatever. It's not about wishing poverty. It's about knowing, logically, that our government is too big and that part of fixing that is cutting a bunch of those federal jobs. Start with the ones who directly infringe on Liberty. Cut the entire ATF and every job in it.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:47 PM
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Dude, it's one thing to be against a government agency, but quite another to wish poverty and trouble upon those who are also just doing their job to feed themselves and their families, and provide a roof over their heads.

It's really starting to look just like it's all just a giant pile of revenge which some people want instead of actually trying to get a functioning government.
Any organization is only as good as the people that make it up. There may be a majority of people working at the ATF that are good and honest working men and women. But, when they fail to report the abuses that take place, they then become complicit and a part of the same corruption. I have no sympathy for them, just as they apparently have no sympathy for the American people that have suffered under their abuse.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:48 PM
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and every employee with the agency should be left jobless.
That sure looks like you wish them to be left jobless. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, and my English nuances are failing me (always a possibility, it's my third language), but as you've written it ... .

How would you take it if someone said your place of work should be gotten rid of, and they hope you're left jobless?
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:57 PM
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That sure looks like you wish them to be left jobless. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, and my English nuances are failing me (always a possibility, it's my third language), but as you've written it ... .
It doesn't really matter how I meant it. Who cares how I meant it? My point was clear, basic and logical. No additional emotional meaning needs to be added to my words. The ATF needs to go, along with many other agencies and departments, and we do not have any need or moral obligation to absorb those jobs into other agencies and departments. That would defeat the whole purpose. If it leaves some jobless, then too bad. That'll be the effect of cutting the size of this massive government.

Doesn't matter how I would take it. If I worked for an agency that directly infringes on Liberty and spends tax money on suites, then whoever said it would be right. My emotional response is irrelevant. Emotional responses have no effect on truth and logic.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:13 PM
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Just doing their job? If working for an agency that directly infringes on Liberty is your job, then that job needs to disappear and you need to find a new one.

The ATF is, and has been for a long time, an inherently anti-Liberty agency. The employees in it have had many years to turn it into something productive and have only made it less so.

A functioning government is a small government. We have no need of the ATF, DHS, HUD, Dept of Education, Etc., and we have no need to absorb all of the employees of those organizations into the others. Part of cutting useless agencies and departments is cutting the jobs. The federal government is far, far too large.
Well said sir! Quoting because I can only give one thanks. That is exactly what most people I speak openly with think of that bastard agency.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:50 PM
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So "Good People" who work for an Evil and Corrupt organization deserve our consideration. NOPE.

Let them find useful jobs in the private sector and learn what its like for the rest of us. They deserve ZERO consideration.


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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
Dude, it's one thing to be against a government agency, but quite another to wish poverty and trouble upon those who are also just doing their job to feed themselves and their families, and provide a roof over their heads.

It's really starting to look just like it's all just a giant pile of revenge which some people want instead of actually trying to get a functioning government.
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:16 PM
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I seem to remember this revelation surfacing a year or two ago. There was some wringing of hands and complaining and then it just disappeared from the media. I don't think it was ever investigated, just dropped..
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:28 PM
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Wow. A government agency turns out to be corrupt. Weird.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
Dude, it's one thing to be against a government agency, but quite another to wish poverty and trouble upon those who are also just doing their job to feed themselves and their families, and provide a roof over their heads.

It's really starting to look just like it's all just a giant pile of revenge which some people want instead of actually trying to get a functioning government.
The US has a constitution that includes the right to keep and bear arms. ATF agents (and their bosses) swore an oath to uphold that constitution, then proceeded to infringe upon that right.

I will not forget the "Fast and Furious" program where the ATF sold guns illegally to straw purchasers, in an attempt to blame law abiding US gun owners, and justify further gun restrictions.

I would prosecute the ATF agents, supervisors, and homeland security and justice dept heads that politicized this agency.

They can try finding another job after they get out of prison, because just following orders is no excuse.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
That sure looks like you wish them to be left jobless. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, and my English nuances are failing me (always a possibility, it's my third language), but as you've written it ... .

How would you take it if someone said your place of work should be gotten rid of, and they hope you're left jobless?
Dont worry, ex-federal employees usually get preferential hiring in the private sector anyways.


On the topic: It sounds like the ATF is catching up with their friends in the DEA and Secret Service when it comes to perks and graft.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:26 PM
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Personally I'm at the point if you have a federal job that exists outside specifically being outlined in the Constitution you should be tried for treason.

The punishment for treason is death.

The execution should be paid for by the criminals family.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JBryan314 View Post
It doesn't really matter how I meant it. Who cares how I meant it? My point was clear, basic and logical. No additional emotional meaning needs to be added to my words. The ATF needs to go, along with many other agencies and departments, and we do not have any need or moral obligation to absorb those jobs into other agencies and departments. That would defeat the whole purpose. If it leaves some jobless, then too bad. That'll be the effect of cutting the size of this massive government.

Doesn't matter how I would take it. If I worked for an agency that directly infringes on Liberty and spends tax money on suites, then whoever said it would be right. My emotional response is irrelevant. Emotional responses have no effect on truth and logic.
AND to reduce the size of government (and government spending) one MUST leave employees of an eliminated agency jobless... not merely shuffle them to another agency. It is an economic and necessary eventuality, and not personal.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
Dude, it's one thing to be against a government agency, but quite another to wish poverty and trouble upon those who are also just doing their job to feed themselves and their families, and provide a roof over their heads.

It's really starting to look just like it's all just a giant pile of revenge which some people want instead of actually trying to get a functioning government.
Well, for starters, their job is in a field that is forbidden to government by all of our founding charters. Those jobs should not exist to be had in the first place. But let's look beyond that to the people who accept those jobs in full knowledge that they are unconstitutional, and make their living depriving people of their rights. Those people SHOULD be out of a job.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:47 PM
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Dude, it's one thing to be against a government agency, but quite another to wish poverty and trouble upon those who are also just doing their job to feed themselves and their families, and provide a roof over their heads.

Just doing their job....

I believe that argument was used numerous times by some federal employees in Germany who were on trial back in the 40`s.

Didn`t fly then, and it wont fly now.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:10 PM
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Mission creep.

The ATF started life as the Alcohol Tax Unit. And it had a purpose when it began because quite a bit of southern moonshine in the 40s, 50s, and 60s was not clean. The producers in east Tennessee or west North Carolina might have made good corn whiskey for themselves and friends but much of the mass produced stuff that was shipped to Nashville or Charlotte was less than a stellar example of the distiller's craft handed down from Scotch-Irish ancestors. So it needed to be stopped.

Then the ATU it became the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division. And of course bootleggers were usually armed and so at some point firearms violations were added in and the ATTD became the ATF. Many agents from the old moonshine ATF days were good old boys and were respected by the moonshiners they arrested as noble opponents of sorts.

But now firearms - originally sort of an afterthought or a secondary violation - is mostly what the ATF is all about and few good old boy types work for the agency.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:35 PM
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i'm shocked and appalled that any .gov organization or employees, would do such a thing, shocked i tell you....

i have lost all faith and trust in .gov, and many others a looooooong time ago.....
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