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Generator vs Inverter

6K views 19 replies 13 participants last post by  Kipper 
#1 ·
I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who have a valuable opinion and experience with this. I currently have a 400W continuous inverter hard wired to my truck battery. During a 24 hr power outage (father forgot to pay the bill, who would've thought I'd have to prep for that?!) I was powering my desktop items from the inverter. Things like my small desk lamp, laptop, cell phone and alarm clock were all operating just fine aside from a buzzing noise coming from the power strip which I imagine is from a less than perfect sine wave coming from the inverter. The power was not quite as strong as what you'd expect from a wall receptacle of course, but it did very well for me in a brief time of need.

Generators obviously are more expensive but can provide more power and are more flexible in terms of placement. I do not have any experience using a gas or diesel powered generator therefore I don't know all the benefits they would have over a 12v DC -> AC inverter.

I have a 2.2L S10 that could run for days on end with a full tank of gas while powering the inverter. Granted it's not particularly good for the engine to idle that long, but if needed I'm sure it could. It's treated me very well so far.

So who has some opinions on one vs the other?
 
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#2 ·
Non-pure-sine wave inverters may not be good for whatever you're operating, things like electronics that depend on purer power.

A disadvantage to your current setup is that you have to be in relatively close proximity to the truck to use the inverter. A generator can be used to run power cords or, as in my case, I connect the generator to a transfer switch that runs selected circuits in the house as I wish (refrigerator circuit, freezer, furnace, etc.).

A disadvantage to a generator is needing a supply of fuel. Gasoline needs to be stabilized (I use Pri-G for that). You also will find that a generator sucks fuel; I plan to run mine intermittently rather than keep it operating 24/7. Even so, I don't know that I have much more than a week of fuel at even that rate (roughly 30 gallons).

If I were you, I'd use the inverter as backup to a generator.
 
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#4 ·
I agree on the sine-wave purity. I am currently looking into getting a more efficient inverter for a more pure synthesis.

I like the idea of running certain breakers from the generator as needed. Would be nice to be able to intermittently run the freezer to keep foods from thawing.

The biggest issue with a generator for me right now is the cost. Even used they go for a pretty penny.


I'm looking at this inverter as it has a pure sine wave. 600W should be plenty to power the few things I'd like to keep running. I may consider a higher power for running the refrigerator though. 1000W should be enough for that, right?

http://www.invertersrus.com/pst-60s-12a.html
 
#5 ·
You might look into one of those small Honda, Yamaha, or Generac inverter generators.
It should work fine for electronics.
They are very fuel effecient and quiet.
They are light weight and could be taken on a camping trip.
Size one for running a frig. or freezer and a few lights.
You probably could only run one appliance, but it should get you by for a while.
Like Goose3 said, don't forget about a stabilizer for the fuel. I also like Pri-G.
 
#6 ·
I think that a well rounded power supply system consisting of: gas or propane powered genie (propane is my dream choice as it stores forever and i can go to the gas station and still buy 20lb tanks even thought the electricity is out and they cant pump gas for my gas genie) a 3-4k watt pure sine wave invertor that can be run from an auto or genie, and a small solar rig wiht enough juce to charge a batt or two, then out to the invertor...

It's certainly a trade off, especially here in the 'burbs....
 
#7 ·
Problem with using a idling car for powering a inverter is you could drain your battery. A car may not idle high enough to allow the alternator to charge. Unlike a generator that has a governor to handle changes of load, your vehicle has a gas pedal. Now you could put on a manual throttle control to run at high idle but than you will burn more gas and put more wear on the engine.

Interesting link to the pure sine inverter. :thumb:
 
#8 ·
The high idle is something I've thought about. Our ambulance has a high idle activated by the emergency brake. I'd like to get a meter put in line with my inverter to measure the voltage output at certain engine RPMs to get an idea of how high I'd actually have to set the idle.

I've been looking around on Craigslist for a decent small generator. Found a few in the $300 range which isn't too bad. I may do as suggested and get one of those and use my inverter as a way just to recharge things like cell phones, laptop and other low draw electronics.

This forum is great. Thanks for everyone's ideas so far. I've learned an incredible amount if information on a wide range of subjects just from browsing around.
 
#9 ·
Think about what brood soldier said.

I would get a generator. To get an inverter large enough to run more than a few things you need a pretty big inverter. As others have stated you will need to keep engine reved if you are using a larger converter or your battery will die trust me, been there done that.

Power goes out a few times a year in my area. With a generator I can put it on a dolly and wheel it around to where I need it and can see it. This way it is easy to keep an eye on it and it can be placed close to where I need it.
 
#10 ·
If your going to use an inverter you should look at deep cycle batteries. The type used in a car, lots of cranking amps, do not like to be run down. Running it down to the point where it won't start a car once, damages it. By the third time its time to go buy a new one. Just the way they are, and in your car leave you stranded.

You could find space to put a second deep cycle battery and a way to isolate it, so it wouldn't run down your starting battery. But vibration and abuse is hard on batteries. The battery in a fixed location might work better, and you could have more than one. They could still be charged in a pinch via your truck.

As an occasional use thing, a small solar set up would keep them charged up for when you needed them, and could add to the set up as you went along.

Generators have their own problems, I have one a small honda, only 110v. But most are only really good for occasional use. They tend to suck plenty of fuel, plus really aren't made to be run for extended periods of time, the 3600 RPM ones anyways. Mine says change the oil after every 20 hours, so less than a day of use. Theres no filter only way to keep the oil clean is to change it. Even a much bigger 8500 watt I had was the same way.
 
#12 ·
If your going to use an inverter you should look at deep cycle batteries. The type used in a car, lots of cranking amps, do not like to be run down. Running it down to the point where it won't start a car once, damages it. By the third time its time to go buy a new one. Just the way they are, and in your car leave you stranded.

You could find space to put a second deep cycle battery and a way to isolate it, so it wouldn't run down your starting battery. But vibration and abuse is hard on batteries. The battery in a fixed location might work better, and you could have more than one. They could still be charged in a pinch via your truck.
http://www.batterymart.com/p-Mega-Crank-AGM-Battery.html

This is what I found upon a quick search. This does not specify if it is a 12v or not though. I could easily mount something like this underneath the bed of my truck with some protection around it to keep it out of the elements. How would I go about wiring it to charge from my alternator?

I have a battery tender that I use for my motorcycle daily. It wouldn't be much of a problem to plug in the deep cycle battery once a week or so to make sure it stays charged up, but obviously that wouldn't be possible if there is a power outage. I'd need to be able to charge it from my truck.
 
#11 ·
Yeah I'm warming up to the generator idea. I'd like to be able to fire the thing up in our basement if needed and route the exhaust out a window.

Looking at some of Honda's products... holy crap! Just short of $1200 for their basic unit. Anyone have experience with Harbor Freight's products? I know they have the junk stigma surrounding them, but I've found several of their products to be pretty reliable in the past.
 
#13 ·
Up at our hunting camp we run both a generator and an inverter connected to a car battery, but seldom simultaneously.

Generally we'll just run the generator to recharge the battery, then run the various things around the tent off the battery (which consist primarily of a string of low draw lights and a few other appliances). We have to fire up the generator to use high-draw items, such as a toaster oven or the satellite TV setup, but most of the time the generator is off and we're running the camp off the battery/inverter.

It's by no means ideal, but for the month or so each year that we're up at hunting camp its certainly workable, and for a power outage or some other temporary grid-down situation the combination of generator, battery, and inverter allows you to run your daily routine without running the generator all the time. (The only difference might be if you were running freezers or refrigerators. The draw on those is generally too much for the battery - you'd need something like a second generator for running a set of freezers.)

Just MHO. YMMV.

Edit: Particularly with generators you tend to get what you pay for. The Honda's are nice - among their other benefits is the low noise signature.

Do some searching in the archives here for generators - a guy in particular was writing about the winter storms that hit New England last October (2011) and one of his posts noted how his generator tended to draw neighbors from blocks around who wanted to charge up their cell phones, iPads, laptops, etc. Noise can be a problem. If a generator is more expensive but much quieter, then you can build an enclosure for it that significantly reduces its noise signature.

The other concept was that buying two 1000 watt generators that you can connect together when you need unusual amounts of power was handier than one 2000 watt generator, because you could separate them into two locations and avoid stringing long power cords all over the place. Yes, the 2 burn more fuel over time. The concept here is that planning to run your generator for a year or three or five is probably unrealistic - the generator may give our before your fuel, etc. They represent primarily shorter term solutions to deal with relatively temporary situations.

There is a lot of material in the archives that you would find useful to making your decision...

Best with it.
 
#18 ·
Up at our hunting camp we run both a generator and an inverter connected to a car battery, but seldom simultaneously.

Generally we'll just run the generator to recharge the battery, then run the various things around the tent off the battery (which consist primarily of a string of low draw lights and a few other appliances). We have to fire up the generator to use high-draw items, such as a toaster oven or the satellite TV setup, but most of the time the generator is off and we're running the camp off the battery/inverter.
TV at a hunting camp? Seriously?
 
#17 ·
People tend to not understand that batteries do not store a great deal of power. The average cost for a 1kWH from the utility is 10 cents. This is 1000 watts drawn for 1 hours time. With watts being V*A, if you needed to get that from a 12 volt battery it would mean that it had to provide 83.33 amps for a hour. That would take a battery rated for 100ah.

Most modern households will use 20kWH or more per day. That means you would need the power from 20-100ah batteries each day. You also need to resupply that amount to recharge the batteries (there is losses with charging but for the sake of discussion I am ignoring them). This is the main reason that all the push towards alternative energy ends up failing. There is no good way to store electricity without converting it and than reconverting it back and in the process, losing a lot.

Unfortunately the green folks keep trying to sell the world that alternative energy is being suppressed and is ready to supply unending cheap power. They rely on the fact people do not understand the physics of the situation.
 
#16 ·
The primary source for my house is a battery bank.
MOst every thing possabe is run on 6 or 12 volts .
What is AC are the swamp cooler and fridge, ,and my big air compressors and welder.
What keeps the battery bank up are solar pannels ,and for overcast days I have a battery charger on the grid , or if the grid is down I have a 5 hp briggs driving an alternator .
It is not effecient to run a AC generator to run a battery charger to charge batteries.
I have several different inverters capable of runing the fridge if I have to but my plan is to get a gas fridge in place of it , they are very effecient.
Down the line, I hope to be expirimenting with home made gasses to run the fridge on so I can reserve the propane for commercial use ,torch, forge, ect..
Solar water heating is most effecient eliminating the need for either gas or electric.
The lap top computers only need DC power so the printer is all that has to be run on an inverter.
The battery bank and solar pannels on my shop trailor with an inverter run my shop tools; bench grinder,sander, saws, lathe, drill press , hand drill motors, and charging for the cordless tools as well . the lights are all DC but one or two for special applications .
My big welder is on the grid ,but I have a secondary gas engine driven welder for remote projects . The 5 HP air compressor is on the grid only ,but I have several others I use for smaller projects including some Gas engine driven units as well .
It is never advised to use a generator of any size to run an electric motor driven air compressor, if you care at all about the windings of either.
Starting amperage is too high .
I have built air compressor units that could drive the pump with either one gas or electric simply disengaging the belt on the engine.
Should the event be an EOTWAWKI, there will still be a demand to get things up and running ASAP .
my.02 cents
 
#19 ·
I just bought that inverter you are looking at off Craigslist used for $30. So far I've tested a sander and a couple of 60W lights at one time. Works great on my car battery. I know how it can effect a car battery, however you can get Rv and or boat batteries used from local shops on the cheap. I charge three of them linked with only a 45 watt trickle charge. Works good. Won't run a fridge but lights and other misc. items it does well. Now that I have the inverter I'm planning on adding to my battery bank. Great deals from c list.
 
#20 ·
I am going to disagree with pretty much everyone that has posted so far, but please hear me out.

I think just having an inverter is enough.

1. Generators are dollars, I think unless you have a lot of other things first the $$ should be going elsewhere.

2. Generators give you another engine to maintain. An inverter you can throw in a cupboard for 5 years, pull it out and it will probably work. You will probably want to run your genny once every 6 months on the other hand.

3. If your thinking of TEOTWAWKI then eventually your probably going to be without electricity. You should be prepared to survive OK without electricity. Its not that hard. If you want some kind of power for 10 years or so into TEOTWAWKI then you probably would be best off with some sort of solar setup. A small solar setup to charge some batteries for torches and radio's is cheaper than a genny. You can buy a solar AA charger for $20 for example.

4. For just SHTF just store some extra fuel on hand for your vehicle (a whole lot cheaper than buying a genny, for which you would need fuel anyway) and run the inverter, sure its not ideal but who cares for a few days SHTF. You can artificially make your vehicle rev a little higher with a brick or string or something like that i'm sure you can figure it out. (i did it with the jack once)

5. Ignore all of the above and get yourself a generator if you think you will be using it regularly for something day to day (camping maybe?), you have too much money, or like tinkering with broken down machinery.

My 2c
 
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