Shaking off a 22lr hole

[billwilla]

Originally Posted by Eddie_T

I have never experienced a good teacher who taught with criticism and sarcasm . . . just saying.

I guess you've never been in the military then. Every drill sergeant, black hat, range cadre & virtually every NCO down range did that when I was in & we all learned quite well and most fairly quick. Those who didn't weren't in the military long.

[Eddie_T]

Originally Posted by Aerindel

Very possibly, although I would be concerned about what happens when that bubble you where able to grow up in gets popped. I'm not sure any of the most important survival lessons can be learned without a good deal of pain, fear and criticism.

In any case, if you think the OP got a hard welcome you should have seen mine. Zeke has bee downright polite on this thread compared to what he did to me...AND I had the sites ex-owner telling me I don't have the right to ask questions because I'm too new.

But this far from the first 'gauntlet' I've had to run to be part of a group. It was expected and I didn't let it drive me away. Any group worth being part of is going to treat you like **** on your first day unless you come in swinging...and hitting.

Originally Posted by billwilla

I guess you've never been in the military then. Every drill sergeant, black hat, range cadre & virtually every NCO down range did that when I was in & we all learned quite well and most fairly quick. Those who didn't weren't in the military long.

I may forward your commentary to some friends just to give them some chuckles. My closest neighbor's son is a LEO and instructor and my son's gun and jeep friend a former SEAL.

I didn't grow up in a bubble and don't live in a fantasy world either. Trying to run newbies through a make or break with verbal abuse is juvenile. You should try to help newbies or find another form of entertainment.

Helping people on a forum is not the same as the military weeding out grunts that can't take the heat. Even the military drops that approach before sniper and other advanced training, and I know that from experience.

Weeding someone out of a survivalist forum might cost someone their life if they can't find valuable info elsewhere in time to use it. It might make you feel tough but it won't save your life either. The real world is a bit tougher than arguing with Zeke and trying to **** off newbies.

[billwilla]

Originally Posted by Eddie_T

I may forward your commentary to some friends just to give them some chuckles. My closest neighbor's son is a LEO and instructor and my son's gun and jeep friend a former SEAL.

I didn't grow up in a bubble and don't live in a fantasy world either. Trying to run newbies through a make or break with verbal abuse is juvenile. You should try to help newbies or find another form of entertainment.

Helping people on a forum is not the same as the military weeding out grunts that can't take the heat. Even the military drops that approach before sniper and other advanced training, and I know that from experience.

Weeding someone out of a survivalist forum might cost someone their life if they can't find valuable info elsewhere in time to use it. It might make you feel tough but it won't save your life either. The real world is a bit tougher than arguing with Zeke and trying to **** off newbies.

So do they all move the goal post like you do to? Now it's only on the interwebz where you can't be critical of someones assumptions? Going from "never seen" to "it shouldn't be done on the interwebz" is quite a jump. If they can't handle facts being pointed out, even when they hurt their pre-conceived beliefs then they really don't have much of a chance in a real SHTF situation unless they get a LOT of help from someone who isn't huddled in a corner crying cause someone was "mean" to them.

[Eddie_T]

Originally Posted by billwilla

So do they all move the goal post like you do to? Now it's only on the interwebz where you can't be critical of someones assumptions? Going from "never seen" to "it shouldn't be done on the interwebz" is quite a jump. If they can't handle facts being pointed out, even when they hurt their pre-conceived beliefs then they really don't have much of a chance in a real SHTF situation unless they get a LOT of help from someone who isn't huddled in a corner crying cause someone was "mean" to them.

Some seek to stoke their egos by belittling others. But teaching or mentoring is to find someone to serve by bringing them to your level of knowledge. If you do so you will soon find yourself focusing on something other than pumping your own ego and just maybe become a happier and more fulfilled person.

[Aerindel]

Originally Posted by Eddie_T

Some seek to stoke their egos by belittling others. But teaching or mentoring is to find someone to serve by bringing them to your level of knowledge. If you do so you will soon find yourself focusing on something other than pumping your own ego and just maybe become a happier and more fulfilled person.

Not about ego, not about entertainment or torment. The best teachers will push you to breaking, not to tear you down, but to build you up. Most of us learn this at a very early age.

One of the first lessons you learn is that the world is not your friend, ignorance is not rewarded, and in every room there is at least one ****head. If you want to learn you take your lumps, ignore the ****heads and seek out teachers who are going to kick your butt, leave you bleeding on the floor and then reach down with a smile and say “now, let me show you how I just did that.”

[Sharkbait]

Originally Posted by IamZeke

20 rounds at 500yd torso target on iron sights just to pass.

That's life as a gravel belly.

Hate to break it to you,
Army cooks do that while making a beautiful bernaise sauce

[Vile Papist]

Originally Posted by Steve_In_29

Yep and people WALK into the ER with 22 wounds all the time.

The round is devastating to a squirrel at 100+yds....not so much to a person.

Unless the round is to head. At the least, you will have a severe headache, or, "your brains will be scrambled. Or one could lose an eye. Or have a slug in your jaw. Regardless, I certainly don't want to find our first hand.

[Sharkbait]

Originally Posted by Eddie_T

I takes bit more than just a 1/2x28 die. But I was talking about a gunsmith doing a proper job with re-crowning and bluing.

Why would a thread job require recrowning?

You can't work a die?
I feel sorry for the woman stupid enough to hook up with you

[Sharkbait]

Originally Posted by Eddie_T

I have never experienced a good teacher who taught with criticism and sarcasm . . . just saying.

I'm guessing that you didn't have good teachers

[Sharkbait]

Originally Posted by Aerindel

Not about ego, not about entertainment.”

Actually, for some of us old farts , it is rather entertaining.

[IamZeke]

Originally Posted by NW GUY

ONE OF the things they beat into you in cop wrld is that you are responsible for EVERY round you fire.
SO
Where exactly do you throw that "warning shot" where it won't do some damage elsewhere?
Especially in high density population cities.. what goes up must come down.
Don't believe it...
be around a cop shop on New Years Day when after all those midnight revelers who shoot guns into the air, the people go out and find all that damage to vehicles and homes and such from those projectiles when they came down.
Over the years we actually had several people who were outside to hear the madness shot by incoming rounds from who knows where but the angle of entry indicated a serious downward angle.

Starting about 5 minutes to midnight every cop with half a brain was burrowed into underground parking structures, covered ambulance docks, backed into big commercial covered loading docks. Anywhere the put serious walls between you and the incoming. AND, it was amazing the number of FA that boomed in the night.

I'm always at home under a 2 story roof every New Years since the early 90's.

Between amateur hour first time drunk drivers and the Latinos shooting off pistols all over town, I see no value to partying that night.

A bottle of Moet & Chandon White Star (I think it is called Imperial now) and download of the last year's Montreux Jazz Festival and I call that a win for the celebrations. At some point the local kids set off some illegal fireworks in the street. Unless it rained that day, I already soaked the roof before sundown. About half the years I've got a gal over for a date and the rest of the years I'm fine to chill on my own. Almost 30 years this way and I'm content with ER and bail free.

Originally Posted by Sharkbait

Hate to break it to you,
Army cooks do that while making a beautiful bernaise sauce

Touche!

I'd argue, but your comeback is so good that you deserve to just win the interwebz today.

Originally Posted by Eddie_T

Some seek to stoke their egos by belittling others.

You've also seen me go to great lengths to help others in a polite tone.

As I posted earlier, it depends how you come in new here. If you come in with a swagger trying to look you know what you are talking about, but really don't then I'll swat you every time. If you come in and admit your ignorance of something new then I'll bend over backwards for you. You are completely right about egos here. Bring one in and try to peddle your BS then your ego meets mine. I'll make you pay. Leave yours at the front door and I'll put mine in my back pocket. I'm a mirror that way. I also treat newcomers the same way I act when I'm new to something. I'm fine with being contrite and humble outside my stomping grounds. I give the old pros their due. Newcomers are getting free help they aren't owed. I pay it back with the respect given for their time invested if I'm new. I treat them like I expect myself to act. Go read my stuff from 2012 if you don't believe me. You can disagree with my methods and claim it discourages n00bs, but I'm no hypocrite about it. I'm fine with who I am here.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Jim from 28DaysLater

22 LR a brilliant move?

Could be... how important it is depends on the theater / region of US...

22 LR will have unconventional / outside-of-the-box or unexciting uses, some of which people never mention. In those cases, it will be better to be shooting much cheaper 22 LR instead of other kinds of rounds. You'll be better off shooting your 22 LR for those kinds of weird (yet useful) applications, than you'd be shooting up your nice MSR, handgun, or shotgun rounds that you need for other stuff. It could save your life because they're saving you a (different kind of, higher-performing) bullet.

A lot of interesting thoughts from the commenters...

Thought Sharkbait's story was very entertaining.

I remember a CC security video where a big fat woman was standing on a street next to a store, looking totally normal and not upset. A criminal had just shot her with 9 mm, and she was waiting for the ambulance. There are a lot of stories like that.

OTOH, look at the guys shooting the gators on Swamp People. I'm sure a lot of people who don't know better probably want that round to be .308 or something. It's 22 LR.

Just goes to show that it depends on what we're talking about. If you're having one of these "best round" discussions, you can't really be arguing about all times and all purposes. A prepper needs a whole toolbox, not just a tool.

"Take it easy, Randy. It's just a fat wound."

[Eddie_T]

Originally Posted by Sharkbait

I'm guessing that you didn't have good teachers

I have had excellent teachers in all aspects of life from military to career, maybe you haven't.

Originally Posted by Sharkbait

Why would a thread job require recrowning?

You can't work a die?
I feel sorry for the woman stupid enough to hook up with you

The indexing tool can damage the rifling just enough to affect accuracy. Have you ever threaded a barrel? Cutting the barrel to 0.050 plus using the die is quite a few turns of an indexing guide in the bore, a lathe is the preferred approach

Originally Posted by Sharkbait

Actually, for some of us old farts , it is rather entertaining.

Actually I am probably older than you and am just having fun poking your egos just a bit. Actually most of the time I just read and chuckle at some of the stuff.

I have had at least two friends who were a bit like Zeke. If you learn to humor them and not push their buttons you can learn from their expertise, others I have just walked away from.

[cavsgt]

Originally Posted by Marlin94

You're way off. 1588yards.

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2...maximum-range/

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Read much or do you not understand the meaning of HORIZONTAL. Your reference is to a round fired at the maximum effective angle.

Do you even own a .22 rifle that you shoot?

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Eddie_T

I have had excellent teachers in all aspects of life from military to career, maybe you haven't.

The indexing tool can damage the rifling just enough to affect accuracy. Have you ever threaded a barrel? Cutting the barrel to 0.050 plus using the die is quite a few turns of an index guide in the bore, a lathe is the preferred approach



Actually I am probably older than you and am just having fun poking your egos just a bit. Actually most of the time I just read and chuckle at some of the stuff.

Actually I have had at least two friends who were a bit like Zeke. If you learn to humor them and not push their buttons you can learn from their expertise, others I have just walked away from.

I'm not sure about how easy the threading is myself. I'm thinking that the slight taper might complicate it a bit. Or maybe it would need to be turned down first? In the case of having a front sight, it might be better to cut it off behind the dovetail, first.

As far as recrowning, it may be possible to clean up the end of the barrel with a little file/stone work and then run a stone or deburring tool into the barrel to clean it up. Depending on how deep you have to go. Maybe if you have to go a ways because of the indexing tool, you may want to run the threads farther, so you can trim the end of the threaded barrel past where the tool would have went. The use a fine stone on a Dremel to make a nice smooth finish to the end of the rifling.

[Eddie_T]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

I'm not sure about how easy the threading is myself. I'm thinking that the slight taper might complicate it a bit. Or maybe it would need to be turned down first? In the case of having a front sight, it might be better to cut it off behind the dovetail, first.

As far as recrowning, it may be possible to clean up the end of the barrel with a little file/stone work and then run a stone or deburring tool into the barrel to clean it up. Depending on how deep you have to go. Maybe if you have to go a ways because of the indexing tool, you may want to run the threads farther, so you can trim the end of the threaded barrel past where the tool would have went. The use a fine stone on a Dremel to make a nice smooth finish to the end of the rifling.

I haven't researched it but I suspect gunsmiths that don't have lathes deal with nicked muzzles on old rifles that have been tossed around. I started adding up the cost of tools for one time use and decided to consult a couple of gunsmiths I know.

[Steve_In_29]

Originally Posted by robartist

There's no do all caliber. The military uses 556 to kill so you should do the same. It seems to be the perfect weight per mag per lb vs ballistics. If you are tight on a budget buy russian steel 223 ammo and install an adjustable gas block on an AR. You'll be able to tune your AR15 to the less powerful russian steel 223 and save nearly a 100$ per 1000 rnds. Once you have a substantial stock of 223 ammo go back and buy 10000 rounds of 22lr for everything else.

Good advice however quite a few militaries use 7.62x39 to kill and it is in my mind a better choice. Bigger bullets are better and a 123-154gr bullet beats a 55-77gr one.

Despite what the math says, 2 (weight) x 3 (speed) does not give the same terminal results as 3 (weight) x 2 (speed) in actual use. The effect of a small bullet traveling faster is not the same as a big bullet traveling slower, despite the numbers saying their energy is the same.

The US Military has spent millions trying to get their 5.56 to provide the same level of terminal ballistics as the 7.62x39 does.

The 6.5 Grendel is a great round for an AR, giving near .308 performance however the ammo is no where near as available nor cheap as either 5.56 or 7.62x39.

[Steve_In_29]

Originally Posted by teddyearp

Any of you old farts (like me) remember when there used to be warnings on boxes of .22LR that cautioned that it would travel a mile? Yet when you opened a box of say .30-30 no such warning? Or any other center fire cartridge? I guess that is where this legend of the .22LR going a mile has blossomed. Now on the other hand, I remember plenty of 'whirr' when you shot a .22LR and it hit a rock, i.e. a ricochet. Maybe that's how it happens.

And then we grew up. I like .22LR. It goes great with my cmmg conversion kit for my AR. Tons of fun and cheap as heck. Some say it is good for training, maybe so, but the difference in recoil still kind of gives me pause about that statement. But 300 yards? Hell no. Maybe around 50 or so.

It is sad that the OP figures that meters and yards are so different means of measurement. Hopefully he can learn plenty more here at this site (since he is a newbie), or others, to correct his mis-information.

But let me not forget to welcome @saltwaterbuzz to the site.

They put the warning on boxes of 22LR ammo as a reminder because people don't think about the tiny round's ability to travel such distances. With centerfire ammo most shooters are well aware of the danger thus no warning is required.

It is not a "legend".

[ActionJackson]

Originally Posted by Aerindel

Not about ego, not about entertainment or torment. The best teachers will push you to breaking, not to tear you down, but to build you up. Most of us learn this at a very early age.

One of the first lessons you learn is that the world is not your friend, ignorance is not rewarded, and in every room there is at least one ****head. If you want to learn you take your lumps, ignore the ****heads and seek out teachers who are going to kick your butt, leave you bleeding on the floor and then reach down with a smile and say “now, let me show you how I just did that.”

Is it possible that the ones we think are ****heads are the ones who become our best teachers? In other words, retrospect has taught me that the best teachers I had back in elementary school, junior high, and high school were the teachers I routinely referred to as ****heads.

[Steve_In_29]

Originally Posted by Eddie_T

I may forward your commentary to some friends just to give them some chuckles. My closest neighbor's son is a LEO and instructor and my son's gun and jeep friend a former SEAL.

I didn't grow up in a bubble and don't live in a fantasy world either. Trying to run newbies through a make or break with verbal abuse is juvenile. You should try to help newbies or find another form of entertainment.

Helping people on a forum is not the same as the military weeding out grunts that can't take the heat. Even the military drops that approach before sniper and other advanced training, and I know that from experience.

Weeding someone out of a survivalist forum might cost someone their life if they can't find valuable info elsewhere in time to use it. It might make you feel tough but it won't save your life either. The real world is a bit tougher than arguing with Zeke and trying to **** off newbies.

If you think that SEAL friend of yours was treated with kid gloves and respect during his training you are CLEARLY misinformed.

Not sure what military you have experience with sniper training in but the Marines will indeed still smoke you during any advanced training. As a Sgt I watched Majors and above get smoked during Jump School and one even was dropped from the course. You pull your weight or you are gone. As a SSgt I wasn't even treated nicely in the Staff Academy.

If a person can't handle the pretty tame stuff they get on these forums then in all honesty they probably aren't going to function well in the much greater stress of an actual shtf event.

As Zeke said, show up trying to make it seem like you know a lot while spouting obviously incorrect information and you will get your ass handed to you. At which point you can either admit your error and learn or leave. We aren't here to make sure every snowflake will survive. On the other hand show up seeking knowledge/advice without an attitude and people here will bend over backwards trying to help with a depth of knowledge gathered over the collective years of many lifetimes.

Many of us that you imply don't know what the real world is like, have quite a bit of experience in the very nasty side of that real world.