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Old 04-24-2018, 01:55 AM
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Frisco85132 Frisco85132 is offline
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Originally Posted by Neut Anderson View Post
I want to make some things clear regarding my "hand in pocket" tactic.

First, I spent 8 years on the street in a high crime city so I have "police eyes" and lots of experience spotting criminals having arrested +/- 400 felons. Therefore I'm not likely to be wrong when experience tells me someone approaching is a dangerous criminal.

Second, as a police officer the first command I would give when I was approaching a suspect was, "Let me see your hands". Why? Because empty hands aren't as capable of holding a concealed weapon as hidden hands are. Criminals do the same thing for the same reason and use a variety of "tricks" to get prospective Vic's to show their hands.

So beware of any suspicious person who wants you to show your hands for any reason.

I actually bluffed two muggers into backing down about 10 years ago by pretending I had a pistol in my hand in my pocket at a deserted Interstate rest stop, when my pistol was really about 50 yards away in my RV. But that was a risky last resort move on my part and I was lucky. I've never been unarmed in a rest stop since.
Great post Neut. All things we on the job do without even thinking about it. I want to see hands, palms out, and nothing but skin.
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Neut Anderson View Post
I want to make some things clear regarding my "hand in pocket" tactic.

First, I spent 8 years on the street in a high crime city so I have "police eyes" and lots of experience spotting criminals having arrested +/- 400 felons. Therefore I'm not likely to be wrong when experience tells me someone approaching is a dangerous criminal.

Second, as a police officer the first command I would give when I was approaching a suspect was, "Let me see your hands". Why? Because empty hands aren't as capable of holding a concealed weapon as hidden hands are. Criminals do the same thing for the same reason and use a variety of "tricks" to get prospective Vic's to show their hands.

So beware of any suspicious person who wants you to show your hands for any reason.

I actually bluffed two muggers into backing down about 10 years ago by pretending I had a pistol in my hand in my pocket at a deserted Interstate rest stop, when my pistol was really about 50 yards away in my RV. But that was a risky last resort move on my part and I was lucky. I've never been unarmed in a rest stop since.

ANOTHER avenue of thought on the subject...

BE CAREFUL What you wish for.
One of our officers was checking out a guy who was reported to be armed.
He confronted the guy,("he didn't look dangerous") but did not have his sidearm out covering him. Just was "ready to" (His words...younger officer, didn't want to offend anyone, especially in a "nicer" part of town.)
SO
The guy had his hands in his jacket pockets.
AND
The cop says "Let me see your hands." And the guy did along with the .22 he was holding. The officer was expecting him to move and he did, following the officers order to the letter+.
He shot the officer 5 times then started to flee. Fortunately 4 of the 5 went into the vest and the 5th was in the left arm. The officer recovered and managed to shoot and kill the person who had just shot him.

THAT is why unless you already have them covered you never want them to move...ESPECIALLY if you think they might drag out a weapon. The word is said loudly and with emphasis.."FREEZE!"IF someone has their hands buried in the pockets their effectiveness for any attack, unless they are wearing a 40's style loose raincoat built with shooting pockets, or an assault of any kind is greatly reduced.

NOW, if you have them staring into that long dark tunnel you can usually have folks bark like a seal with no problem, AND THEN you can react faster then they can assault you.

OR,
to put it another way...
I NEVER had anyone with their hands in their pockets EVER come close to a successful resistance attack to avoid arrest. AND
I never let anyone make that move of removing their hands from same unless they were already under the gun.

NOW,
in civilian world how does that play out?
IF you are licensed CCW person and LEGALLY carrying, so long as you can REASONABLY ARTICULATE your fears, concerns perceptions, you can LEGALLY draw down on the guy who sets off your spidey sense by closing on you in a furtive manner while you are gassing your car at 0145 in a questionable part of town. REMEMBER the term, REASONABLY ARTICULATE,
that means he demonstrated actions that would lead a reasonable individual to fear for safety. (he said he wanted money, he was 6'8" and 400lbs, had MS-13 tatts across his face, was talking to himself about "shank'n a honkey" , was carrying a bat or a piece of rebar while he was coming directly at you)

Otherwise, if your brain cannot place why you should stick a gun in his face... maybe you shouldn't.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
ANOTHER avenue of thought on the subject...

BE CAREFUL What you wish for.
One of our officers was checking out a guy who was reported to be armed.
He confronted the guy,("he didn't look dangerous") but did not have his sidearm out covering him. Just was "ready to" (His words...younger officer, didn't want to offend anyone, especially in a "nicer" part of town.)
SO
The guy had his hands in his jacket pockets.
AND
The cop says "Let me see your hands." And the guy did along with the .22 he was holding. The officer was expecting him to move and he did, following the officers order to the letter+.
He shot the officer 5 times then started to flee. Fortunately 4 of the 5 went into the vest and the 5th was in the left arm. The officer recovered and managed to shoot and kill the person who had just shot him.

THAT is why unless you already have them covered you never want them to move...ESPECIALLY if you think they might drag out a weapon. The word is said loudly and with emphasis.."FREEZE!"IF someone has their hands buried in the pockets their effectiveness for any attack, unless they are wearing a 40's style loose raincoat built with shooting pockets, or an assault of any kind is greatly reduced.

NOW, if you have them staring into that long dark tunnel you can usually have folks bark like a seal with no problem, AND THEN you can react faster then they can assault you.

OR,
to put it another way...
I NEVER had anyone with their hands in their pockets EVER come close to a successful resistance attack to avoid arrest. AND
I never let anyone make that move of removing their hands from same unless they were already under the gun.

NOW,
in civilian world how does that play out?
IF you are licensed CCW person and LEGALLY carrying, so long as you can REASONABLY ARTICULATE your fears, concerns perceptions, you can LEGALLY draw down on the guy who sets off your spidey sense by closing on you in a furtive manner while you are gassing your car at 0145 in a questionable part of town. REMEMBER the term, REASONABLY ARTICULATE,
that means he demonstrated actions that would lead a reasonable individual to fear for safety. (he said he wanted money, he was 6'8" and 400lbs, had MS-13 tatts across his face, was talking to himself about "shank'n a honkey" , was carrying a bat or a piece of rebar while he was coming directly at you)

Otherwise, if your brain cannot place why you should stick a gun in his face... maybe you shouldn't.


You make great points NW.

What I try to get through the heads of non-leo gun carriers is that officers generally have far more latitude in obviously pointing a gun at someone as a threat management tool. What does obviously pointing a gun mean? It means: Pointing a gun at someone in an obvious and visible manner so that there is no doubt that a weapon is being pointed at them.

Duly noted.

In very few states that I am aware of...Arizona is one of them...where the legislature has recognized the reality that sometimes it is or may be necessary to uncover, grasp, possibly draw (not necessarily point) a gun in what is called a "defensive display" in order to head off or avoid an violent action.

"Stop! I don't want trouble, but I have a weapon and I will defend myself!" - exemplar wording in a "defensive display".

The relative so-called "tactical" merits of doing it or not doing it can be argued all day, and I am not here for that....I am just pointing it out as a reality in Arizona. You will still have to explain why you threatened to point a gun at someone, or actually did point a gun at someone. As NW said "...if your brain cannot place why you should stick a gun in his face... maybe you shouldn't". Great words of advice.

You should consider that in order to actually be justified in pointing a gun at another human being you should also be justified in actually shooting that other person, and being able to articulate exactly why you did it and why another reasonable person would do the same thing in the same set of circumstances, knowing what you knew at the time.

That covers "obviously pointing a gun" at another human being.

How about "surreptitiously pointing a gun" at another human being?

You are approached by someone who is setting off all your primal survival alarms. You can't exactly articulate why...but every reasonable instinct in your body is going off. The hair on your neck is raised, you can actually smell that something is wrong or dangerous in the scent given off by another person. This is called chemosensory communication.

Like pre-assualtive cues in body language, the chemosensory emissions from a potential attacker come out very strongly when they are hyper-oxygenating before they attack (blowing off steam). Look for it, be aware of it, and when your body tells you it is there...listen! We didn't kill our way to the top of the food chain by wandering the African plains with our heads up our monkey asses.

It is a real thing among scented primates, and the human primate is the most scented ape with the most sweat and scent glands on our bodies. Every fiber of your being tells you that something is wrong, yet your eyes and ears are not getting a threat signal so you can't say "He smelled dangerous" even though you "know" something is definitely wrong and dangerous.

You have obviously heard the term "the scent of fear" and maybe you have smelled fear coming off someone else. It comes off you too, but by the same token so does the smell of danger.

So, your Spidey Senses are going off like an air raid siren or the red alert on the Enterprise...but you can't "see" the danger, but you know and I mean you ****ing know that it is there. Do you sweep back the strong side of your vest and masterfully draw your tactical blaster and draw down on the guy walking up to you with a shifty smile on his face?

Probably not a good idea.

But what about that 38 in your jacket or vest pocket? That hammerless or shrouded hammer (the cloth of the pocket won't interdict the hammer and it can be fired from the pocket) J-Frame that you can put your hand on and orient toward what you know is a threat, but can't yet justify an obvious gun draw. You can have a defensive weapon in your hand while you use verbal communication to warn off a potential threat and claim your personal space and no one but you is the wiser.

Remember, it's easier to explain why you drew your gun and didn't shoot than it is to explain why you drew your gun and did shoot, but by the same token if no one knows you drew your gun...it is easier to explain than either.

Remember, in order to fire in self defense you or an innocent must be in "immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm". In order to draw and threaten to use deadly force, you still must be in "immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm". In essence the same level of ability, opportunity, and jeopardy must be present, because if it is not then you have just committed a felony (assault with a deadly weapon), or at the very least menacing, or misconduct with a firearm. If no one knows you de facto drew your gun...then what they don't know won't hurt you.

I am not talking about a paranoia based action, but an honest and sincere belief that you are in danger here.

Be safe.
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:24 PM
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You have to have your head on a swivel any time you are out and about.

Buying gas, a good place to meet bad people. I buy gas at 2 places, one pumps the gas, the other is self service but quite busy. Avoid the ones with convenience stores.

Convenience stores, I avoid these too. 7-11 is the worst and the Red Box thing outside attracts the worst mutts for some reason.

Getting cash. My bank has an ATM and small branches in many supermarkets, a good safe place to get cash most of the time. Do it while shopping and you blend in.

I was out with my hotrod a few nights ago, stopped at a bank branch that was closed, it was about 10 PM. My debit card gets me in. Outside I see 2 guys sitting in a car waiting, for what I don't know. I should have left, but other people were around. In the branch, I'm locked in unless you are a member. I open my Buck 110 knife and have it slipped into my left hand pants pocket in case I need it. Go back to my car, nothing happened. Note to self, don't do that sort of crap any more.

I can't carry a pistol legally, so I avoid doing that after a close call a few years back. I'll carry a short shotgun if I travel from point A to point B late at night. Unloaded per NY laws, technically the ammo has to be kept separate, as in the trunk. But I may have loose rounds in my jacket pocket. I bring the gun inside when I get to point B. It never sits in the car interior by itself. I have carried it in the trunk at times.

NY also has strict firearm brandishing laws. You can be slapped with a class c felony even by being the good guy in a situation where you need to defend yourself.

Otherwise you need to be vigilant any time you are out. Don't flash money around. I don't even carry a wallet. I have a stainless steel clip that holds my cards and cash. I travel with only whatever cards I need at that time. I carry a very sharp Buck folding knife.

Watch out for people approaching you. Usually they are pan-handlers and relatively harmless. Most stores I go to I report that at the store office and either they chase them or call the cops. I tell people that I'm not interested but thanks anyway. They go away and onto the next mark. So far I have not been jacked up, I hope my streak continues.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Frisco85132 View Post
Head up, shoulders back, and yes...hold his gaze. Don't do the chesty "getting swole" "what'choo lookin at?" thing. Just look him in the eye, nod your head "I see you, I have no fear of you, and I am not a good target" and stride purposefully on your way.

It's not a challenge, rather an acknowledgment of their presence and that you see them. You cannot be surprised. You cannot be and are not intimidated. You send a simple, clear message that their safety depends upon leaving you alone.

Looking away is the equivalent of a child who is caught being naughty averting their eyes. The child is trying to be invisible. This is what a predator looks for. When a child is not or has not been naughty, they instinctively hold your gaze. This is primal programming.

Chesty and swole is the mark of the insecure. Confident, erect, and purposeful is the mark of someone who appears to the human predator to be someone who is capable of handling anything that comes along.

Watch other people. Watch people who are shifty and who they notice, and who they focus on. Their body language will change from shifty to target focused. You will see it shift back again to shifty or they will be the ones who avert their eyes when they see the confident human predator look back and take notice.

Notice the dynamic in the animal kingdom. The lioness, who is an apex predator will not engage another apex predator because though they may win, they won't risk their teeth or claws being broken. The rhino is not a predator per se, but they are a de facto predator based upon their ability to defend itself.

The lioness cannot afford to break its teeth and claws attacking the rhino because it will no longer be able to hunt and survive. The rhino, on the other hand, can afford to engage all in because its survival depends upon its ability to defend right now. The rhino is an herbivore and does not need its weapons to hunt, so it can be injured to an extent and still survive.

This is the same dynamic in human behavior. The predatory human will avoid engaging another human predator (notice the difference) because a predator who recognizes another predator doesn't want to risk getting hurt (or in this case captured and brought to the justice system), so they will pick the softest or easiest target.

No, it is not one hundred percent one hundred percent of the time...but it is right in the extreme vast majority of cases. Yes, sometimes you will have to engage, but you're training and preparing for that right? You're not going to be surprised right? You're going to look like a bad victim right?
Thanks for such a detailed reply Frisco, really appreciated and I learned a lot.

Training, most definitely in physical training, running, weights and am about to start training in Krav.

Never really learnt much 'self defense' as everyone likes to think they're teaching it, but reality is most teach martial arts it's a sport with little real application.

I've learnt more from reading 'attack proof' and other books from John Perkins. Mainly his focus on brutal aggressive defense, palm strike to chin, fighting only if your life depends on it etc.

If you have any other guidance or recommendation I'd love to hear it.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01HDA using Tapatalk
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:45 AM
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- Don't smoke.
- Left two blocks, right at the grocery.
- 4:30

Quick, confident answer, not open for discussion.
I always make the time up if/when asked and I feel I'm being tested in urban areas, and keep moving. No way I'm looking down or being distracted in that moment.

I also seem to remember a story from several years ago (along the lines of what BJJ Grappler mentioned above) about a woman who totally snapped after being told "We don't smoke" after asking two other women for a "light." She stabbed and murdered both women I believe.

I think this was on the east coast and involved two Canadian tourist, if memory serves.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:56 AM
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When I take my daughter to the mall (ugh)....I carry what I jokingly refer to as a "tactical soda" in my left hand. I buy the biggest soda in an ice filled cup that I can, and I carry it in my left hand. I don't drink soda, but imagine a face full of ice cold beverage in the face of someone who you HONESTLY and REASONABLY believe to be about to commit to an assault and how distracting that would be allowing you to create space in what is otherwise a crowded and restrictive environment. It is non injury causing, but it will allow you to immediately create space to a more advantageous position from which to mount an effective defense using whatever tool is appropriate to the moment.

That face and chest full of 44 or 64 ounces of icy sugar water will stall, stop, and reset their whole stream of consciousness, but what it does is put you back into the driver's seat. Even if you are wrong..."accidentally spilling a soda" on someone is not a crime. Of course...accidentally. Accidentally. But honestly, within the totality of the circumstances, you're probably not going to be wrong about a potential assault because a lot of mall crawlers will start their wolfing and intimidation act giving you all the warning you need.
Forgot to mention...

The soda trick is another fantastic idea. My version of this is a sport-style water bottle (the squeezable kind with the spout) filled with lemon juice-straight lemon juice w/ no water.
It's edible, aim-able, and can be carried virtually anywhere. Safe, and super effective.
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:18 AM
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After living in the PI and Italy for a year, I learned to enforce a six-foot circle around my body. Anyone inside the circle got "accidentally" punched in the stomach. I'm also a fairly scary looking guy who wears T-shirts that say "Nuke 'em 'til their dead babies have dead babies."
OK Francis.

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Old 04-26-2018, 02:19 AM
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Something to mention is a lot of petitioners, panhandlers, beggars, and street peddlers use similar tactics of being over friendly to make a quick sell. It's very tempting to ignore them completely as you walk past, but what if you are wrong and they are merely the distraction?


A strong "get back" or "stop right there" to break contact is completely lawful. You have to look them in the face when you do this. No one will take you serious if you are looking down or away.


I often use it with my non-dominant hand pointing at the target. If it's serious, my dominant hand goes to my holster. If it's deadly serious, the firearm comes out to either low ready or on target.

I've used the loud verbal commands off duty and out of uniform. You will get stares from everyone else but who cares.

Don't forget to check your surroundings 360 degrees by intentionally moving your head left and right to break or avoid tunnel vision. It's easy to practice this in the comfort of your home.
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:23 AM
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Something to mention is a lot of petitioners, panhandlers, beggars, and street peddlers use similar tactics of being over friendly to make a quick sell. It's very tempting to ignore them completely as you walk past, but what if you are wrong and they are merely the distraction?

A strong "get back" or "stop right there" to break contact is completely lawful. You have to look them in the face when you do this. No one will take you serious if you are looking down or away.

I often use it with my non-dominant hand pointing at the target. If it's serious, my dominant hand goes to my holster. If it's deadly serious, the firearm comes out to either low ready or on target.

I've used the loud verbal commands off duty and out of uniform. You will get stares from everyone else but who cares.

Don't forget to check your surroundings 360 degrees by intentionally moving your head left and right to break or avoid tunnel vision. It's easy to practice this in the comfort of your home.
Practice at home indeed. This is where I get the most yahoos walking up to my house. One guy last week, from Slomins, shows me his ID badge, wants to lock me into $2.45 a gallon for fuel oil, I have gas and told him that. Then he sees my alarm signs and wants to take over my contract. I told him I was happy and he left.

I get what is supposedly a neighbor that wants me to sign a petition. I said sure and rattle off my lawyer's phone number. I told him to set something up with my lawyer but it won't be free. NEVER ever sign or buy anything door to door. Never take a flyer or handout. I tell them to put it in the mailbox, the garbage or keep it.

If you see one person at your house, look around for one or more people. Canvassers often travel in a group, so do break-in artists. You never know who is casing your house to come back later.

My oldest son is going to work yesterday afternoon, I'm home and he texts me about a car parked in our dead end. There are no houses past where I am, just woods. I go out and look, don't recognize the car.

I pull out a short shotgun, load it up with #1 buck.. lay it on the counter, go about cooking dinner. My youngest son gets home from work and I ask if there is still a car in the dead end, he looks. It's a car with a couple of guys in his band, they're coming over for practice and were waiting for him to get home, so they were cool. Now I know the car and file that away.

Your biggest threat may be at home, we all tend to relax and let our guards down once we get home. I always have the doors locked and if any window or door is opened, the alarm panel will chime and display what zone it was. Always worth a quick look.
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:14 AM
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I avoid cities/urban areas as much as possible, carry weapons, don't talk to strangers, avoid late night stops for gas or convenience items, and generally just avoid times/locations where crime happens (fights, robberies, DUIs, etc.).

I've live in big cities, gone to the places where crime happens, I've seen violence and violent crime, I've been victimized, I've nearly been seriously victimized, etc. I've seen the criminal aftermath of homicide and assaults working in a DA office, doing police rides, etc. I speak from experience.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the "criminal interview." It's worth understanding. Google it.

I echo the situational awareness points. This is a critical tool. I rarely let strangers engage me in public and on the streets.

Don't be afraid to just run away. I did it in Philly 25 years ago, and probably avoided at least an armed robbery on the streets. I was foolishly out at like 2am walking on the city streets, and a man followed me, passed me, and reached into his waistband. I ran off, fast. Heard him yelling at me. May have saved my life. Follow your gut instincts and live.

Make good decisions. Avoid urban areas if possible. Avoid big unruly crowds (protests, political hot marches, massive concert crowds, etc.), avoid sketchy areas, avoid going to high crime locations (gas stations, convenience stores, liquor stores, clubs, bars) at night. The bulk of random violent crime happens at these locations. Avoid driving at night, and particularly FRI/SAT night after 10pm. Most DUIs occur then, and that's the bulk of driving accident/deaths.

Recognize and avoid high risk areas
* Parking lots
* Convenience/gas stations
* Clubs, bars, liquor stores
* Alleys, cities, subways, train and bus stations, homeless camps
* Big crowds - understand crowd behavior can get you trampled and it's an simple terrorist target for bombing, shooting, or car violence.

Consider carrying a "dummy wallet" stuffed with an old canceled or irrelevant promotion cards or empty gift cards, and like $10 one dollar bills to toss at a robber. Or dummy car keys you can throw if robbed in a parking lot. Hand over dummy keys and wallet, and run.
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:25 PM
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You make great points NW.

What I try to get through the heads of non-leo gun carriers is that officers generally have far more latitude in obviously pointing a gun at someone as a threat management tool. What does obviously pointing a gun mean? It means: Pointing a gun at someone in an obvious and visible manner so that there is no doubt that a weapon is being pointed at them.

Duly noted.

In very few states that I am aware of...Arizona is one of them...where the legislature has recognized the reality that sometimes it is or may be necessary to uncover, grasp, possibly draw (not necessarily point) a gun in what is called a "defensive display" in order to head off or avoid an violent action.

"Stop! I don't want trouble, but I have a weapon and I will defend myself!" - exemplar wording in a "defensive display".

The relative so-called "tactical" merits of doing it or not doing it can be argued all day, and I am not here for that....I am just pointing it out as a reality in Arizona. You will still have to explain why you threatened to point a gun at someone, or actually did point a gun at someone. As NW said "...if your brain cannot place why you should stick a gun in his face... maybe you shouldn't". Great words of advice.

You should consider that in order to actually be justified in pointing a gun at another human being you should also be justified in actually shooting that other person, and being able to articulate exactly why you did it and why another reasonable person would do the same thing in the same set of circumstances, knowing what you knew at the time.

That covers "obviously pointing a gun" at another human being.

How about "surreptitiously pointing a gun" at another human being?

You are approached by someone who is setting off all your primal survival alarms. You can't exactly articulate why...but every reasonable instinct in your body is going off. The hair on your neck is raised, you can actually smell that something is wrong or dangerous in the scent given off by another person. This is called chemosensory communication.

Like pre-assualtive cues in body language, the chemosensory emissions from a potential attacker come out very strongly when they are hyper-oxygenating before they attack (blowing off steam). Look for it, be aware of it, and when your body tells you it is there...listen! We didn't kill our way to the top of the food chain by wandering the African plains with our heads up our monkey asses.

It is a real thing among scented primates, and the human primate is the most scented ape with the most sweat and scent glands on our bodies. Every fiber of your being tells you that something is wrong, yet your eyes and ears are not getting a threat signal so you can't say "He smelled dangerous" even though you "know" something is definitely wrong and dangerous.

You have obviously heard the term "the scent of fear" and maybe you have smelled fear coming off someone else. It comes off you too, but by the same token so does the smell of danger.

So, your Spidey Senses are going off like an air raid siren or the red alert on the Enterprise...but you can't "see" the danger, but you know and I mean you ****ing know that it is there. Do you sweep back the strong side of your vest and masterfully draw your tactical blaster and draw down on the guy walking up to you with a shifty smile on his face?

Probably not a good idea.

But what about that 38 in your jacket or vest pocket? That hammerless or shrouded hammer (the cloth of the pocket won't interdict the hammer and it can be fired from the pocket) J-Frame that you can put your hand on and orient toward what you know is a threat, but can't yet justify an obvious gun draw. You can have a defensive weapon in your hand while you use verbal communication to warn off a potential threat and claim your personal space and no one but you is the wiser.

Remember, it's easier to explain why you drew your gun and didn't shoot than it is to explain why you drew your gun and did shoot, but by the same token if no one knows you drew your gun...it is easier to explain than either.

Remember, in order to fire in self defense you or an innocent must be in "immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm". In order to draw and threaten to use deadly force, you still must be in "immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm". In essence the same level of ability, opportunity, and jeopardy must be present, because if it is not then you have just committed a felony (assault with a deadly weapon), or at the very least menacing, or misconduct with a firearm. If no one knows you de facto drew your gun...then what they don't know won't hurt you.

I am not talking about a paranoia based action, but an honest and sincere belief that you are in danger here.

Be safe.
Good post! As you may have found out (or will), it is difficult for a retired experienced high-crime-area street cop who has been involved in multiple on-duty shootings to refrain from drawing on suspects when his gut tells him the the persons approaching are criminals who are targeting him. That's why I use "Pocket Carry", so I can already have my pistol in hand at the first sign of trouble, and it is legal and not obviously threatening to innocents. Unfortunately, pocket carry only works if you wear pants with wide & deep pockets such as most cargo pants have.

The problem for civilians and retired cops is, if you wait too long to draw you may be maimed or killed. On the other hand, if you draw too soon you may be charged with a serious violation of the law.

Maybe the best reason for pocket carry is that "innocents" won't be overly concerned about your hand being in your pocket, only criminals and cops will.
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Old 04-27-2018, 01:41 PM
Tdog02 Tdog02 is offline
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Excellent topic!

Awareness is the key, always looking. Head up and proper bearing. Notice anyone who is noticing or looking at you. I am a firm believer that you can reduce your chances of being a victim by paying attention to details.

NRA has a Refuse to be a victim program that is focused on women.

A very good book is Gavin DeBecker "The Gift of Fear". A couple of things about this author... he hates guns. Get past that and his research into the mindset of victims who were sexually assaulted is very insightful. I don't get any money from the book or the author, I just highly recommend it because of its study of survival instinct.
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Old 04-27-2018, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC-Trainer View Post
Forgot to mention...

The soda trick is another fantastic idea. My version of this is a sport-style water bottle (the squeezable kind with the spout) filled with lemon juice-straight lemon juice w/ no water.
It's edible, aim-able, and can be carried virtually anywhere. Safe, and super effective.
A BETTER soda trick..

You have several homies standing around on a street corner, all of them are supping on BIG GULPS or SUPER BIG GULPS... what is wrong with this picture?

You can bet at least one of those cups has DRUGS in it and for the others, the cash and then GUNS. YOu would be amazed at what will fit inside a BIG GULP cup.
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