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Old 04-02-2019, 04:09 PM
shibbershabber shibbershabber is offline
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Threads always seem to have a location specific theme to them, but rarely have I seen much on what the most common living environment is...

Sure, we have all read the threads about surviving IN the city... and of course those in the countryside will have everything dialed in and their only consideration is what to do with the hordes fleeing the city....



Really though, most people live in a suburban setting... 20-30 minutes from the downtown of their city.

Im talking large apartment complexes, cookie cutter neighborhoods, neighborhoods built 20, 30, 40 years ago with single family homes on 1/2 acre or less lots... we can see half a dozen neighbors but may only know a couple by name, etc
mixed with retail/commercial zoning MAYBE light industrial, etc.

No high rise anything, no heavy industry, limited public transit... maybe a bus line, areas that are pretty much dead after 10pm


These neighborhoods would be more realistically threatened by the rabble from the inner city areas. More susceptible to threats from right down the road... local grocery stores, etc would be hotspots for trouble... same with strip malls, etc.

Trouble will spring up quick and you will have to react instantly... not like being in the sticks and having the advantage of long range shots or ANY stand off capability... etc


In many ways I would consider these areas to be the most dangerous in WROL or long term disaster scenarios.


What are your thoughts on defense, equipment, etc... any other unique considerations for not being in the rural areas or the inner city?
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Old 04-02-2019, 04:28 PM
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Really though, most people live in a suburban setting... 20-30 minutes from the downtown of their city.

Im talking large apartment complexes, cookie cutter neighborhoods, neighborhoods built 20, 30, 40 years ago with single family homes on 1/2 acre or less lots... we can see half a dozen neighbors but may only know a couple by name, etc
mixed with retail/commercial zoning MAYBE light industrial, etc.

No high rise anything, no heavy industry, limited public transit... maybe a bus line, areas that are pretty much dead after 10pm



What are your thoughts on defense, equipment, etc... any other unique considerations for not being in the rural areas or the inner city?
In a word:
Unsustainable.

Only exist (in recent years) due to petroleum/cars.

Cities were where people brought their rurally produced goods for secure storage, (personal) security, (place to run to) and added value.

Rural areas are where things are produced.

Suburbia doesn't produce anything, doesn't have (much as you comment) added value facilities, is too densely populated for subsistence living and is entirely dependant on "the grid" for its continuation.
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Old 04-02-2019, 04:42 PM
hardcalibres hardcalibres is offline
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The only advantages over downtown I can see are:

1) Less densely packed means some dwellings may be defensible from fires that could easily sweep through the central part of cities and burn pretty much everything.
2) More people know each other than in apartments - some cooperation may be possible
3) Some gardens are possible to grow and provide supplementary food - but these gardens would be impossible to conceal and most likely not satisfy all needs for the owner
4) Some surburbs are close enough to semi-rural land to head there without getting stuck on a freeway. Once you make it to rural land, the number of bottlenecks can be less and alternatives to get around them can improve.

But overall the suburbs are still a relatively bad place to be if the electricity, water, food trucks and police/ambulances/FD stop coming and the sewage stops leaving.

Lower population density = Less people type challenges and competition for resources
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Old 04-02-2019, 05:03 PM
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I'm not sure how urban areas are at an advantage. High rises with no electricity means stairs. They probably don't have fireplaces, or grocery stores, or …… to support their population density without daily or more frequent resupply. If water and sewer are issues for suburbia, having even more people and more elevation aren't solutions. Mass transit isn't available in a suburb, but without power, it isn't downtown either.

Many suburban neighborhoods come with built in political structure, walls, and gates. Fear the HOA, some of them have more control over the neighborhoods then street gangs. Don't underestimate the ability of a group of soccer moms to keep a sharp eye out for strangers in the neighborhoods.

Rural people should pull for the suburbs. They're the only thing that would hold in the hoard leaving the city.
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Old 04-02-2019, 05:58 PM
Florida Jean Florida Jean is offline
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Like many things, I'd suspect that it depends upon how 'fast' the 'whatever SHTF' happens.

Many of the medical types and education types live in suburbs. Also, if you think about it; many 'volunteer workers' live there too. They may have 'regular' jobs, but are the real workers for organizations that look for unpaid workers. Think PTA types. Volunteer fire fighters. Volunteers for after school programs; YMCA programs, food pantries/food drives, library volunteers, tons of 'walks to cure this or that', runs for this or that cause, doing this or that job at their church, volunteer for habitat for humanity, hospital/nursing home visitations, thrift store volunteers, etc. etc. etc.

In a 'slow' shtf it would be interesting how they 'organize' to deal with that.
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:12 PM
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In many ways I would consider these areas to be the most dangerous in WROL or long term disaster scenarios.


What are your thoughts on defense, equipment, etc... any other unique considerations for not being in the rural areas or the inner city?

1: move

2: really good bug out plan.
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:14 PM
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Most of the professionals that run the city water, sewer, power and telecommunications systems live out in the burbs. Nurses, doctors, and employers too.

Unfortunately many middle managers, teachers, and administrators.

The county sheriffs are normally outside the city and end up surrounded by suburbs.

My neighborhood consists of construction company owners, landscaping company owners, utility workers, engineers, police, firemen, and teachers. So we end up with construction equipment here and there and guys who turn our power back on quickly.
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Old 04-02-2019, 07:02 PM
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Not in the city as it’s a sh!t hole, rural ( we own 116 acres there ) has poorer schools and ,healthcare ,drive to jobs sucks,and let’s face it ,they have their share of low life’s ,methheads ,hillbilly’s and so forth .

Suburbs , kids got Great educations ( we have a CPA and RN ) easy commute , close to great healthcare ,restaurants,stores, nightlife ,my hunting land,work and on and on .

Great neighbors , most are gun guys , real bikers ,cops ,FD , easy to block off the two ways in . Plus 80 houses easy to have a 24/7 watch of several armed men ,on each watch if needed.

My survivalist plan is to survive everyday life , exercise, don’t be a fat slob ,smoker etc . save up $, gets kids a good start in life ,live,many healthy years .

Worked great so far !
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:54 AM
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Depends on what is in the particular suburb. There can be a lot of positives.

If it's truly a bedroom community, everything has to be brought in, either before, during, or after SHTF. It depends on what kind of S that will determine what will be needed, and whether it should or even can be prepositioned inside the community.

Some suburbs have light and medium industry that could continue to be useful, or could be converted to be useful. Ditto for commercial, nonprofit, education, utility, etc. facilities. Could heaven be heavy industry and/or power generation.

Infrastructure in suburbs is often newer/better maintained/more adequate than elsewhere.

Demographics in suburbs is often more favorable... families, mixture of ages and experience/knowledge, etc. with majority home ownership instead of renting. Yards that can be turned into gardens. A lot of flower growers will have transferable skills for veggies

HOA, PTA, etc. provides basis for organization. A great HOA now could be priceless before, during, and after SHTF. But it takes a lot of work now to make that happen.


Bad things to consider...

Even if the trains quit running/working, the tracks provide egress from the city directly into the suburbs

In outer ring suburbs, I get a real uncomfortable feeling about the large apartment complexes... they're set up like fortresses/castles, so provide refuge for the residents to steal from surrounding farms, farmettes, single family homes... feudalism comes to mind...
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:04 AM
johnmcd johnmcd is offline
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Something else to consider - in a 'fast-burn' scenario (e.g. EMP, etc.) where resources availability disappears very quickly, the folks in those suburban houses are going to run through their food, water, medical supplies, etc. pretty quickly and have to either locate new resources or displace. Some small number of folks will have gardens, access to lakes/streams/rivers/etc. for water and fish, etc. and may be able to extend their survival or, if they're even moderately prepared, reach a steady-state where they can continue to survive while remaining in their suburban location. The rest will consume what they have and move out in search of resources. So you'll have some small 'islands' of survivors, who may be able to remain incognito, and a lot of empty houses. As the vultures begin migrating out of the city they'll be scavenging and encountering mostly empty houses, stripped resources and forted-up survivors, so my guess is that they'll start to think that scavenging more suburban locations is a waste of time and beeline for the rural areas (which is a whole 'nother discussion). The result may be that if you're prepared in a suburban area that's far enough out from the city and can stay low-key or protect your resources until the biggest waves of vultures pass, you may have a shot at long-term survival.


Another consideration is geography and population density. Take the Boston area for example - you could consider everything inside I495 and outside of 128 (aka I95) as 'suburban', which covers approximately 1,000 square miles. The population of the city of Boston is around 650K people, and the population for the suburban area is around 4 million people. When people start migrating out the majority of them will initially follow major roads radially outwards from the city towards the fabled rural paradises, so only a small percentage of them should be migrating past any given location. If you live far enough away from a major migration route you should encounter a lot fewer people (once your neighbors have skedaddled), which may be manageable.

I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but there are some factors that may contribute to being able to survive long-term in a suburban environment:
- Located away from potential migration routes
- Able to survive low-key until major waves pass (a few weeks/months)
- Able to defend your location from initial waves
- Able to sustain long-term after it's 'safe' to operate exposed

Just some thoughts.
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:12 PM
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What are your thoughts on defense, equipment, etc... any other unique considerations for not being in the rural areas or the inner city?


The topic of population migration in a SHTF event has been discussed here for years. If the SHTF event has resulted in a loss of electricity this means there is no food, water or sanitation, and most importantly, communications. The severity of the event would dictate the public response, but without communications in place (TV, internet and/or radio) to stem panic, civility would likely be short-lived.

We also forget that the general public is much more knowledgeable about the basic concepts of prepping, but not in a good way... because while they may generally laugh at those of us who prep as a lifestyle, they are also indirectly becoming more broadly knowledgeable about prepping concepts (EMP, food storage, etc.) and more importantly - those who do it. I'd expect those folks to glom onto the disaster portions of the ideology, (3 days of food, no electricity means no water, etc,) and in an effort to educate the prepping illiterate, they actually accelerate the panic.

This has to change how we perceive the migrating horde threat. Because now they are armed with some information (regarding how preppers prep), and will now have some idea what to look for when looking for resources.


IMHO - anything within 50 miles of a major city will be wiped clean, akin to how locusts ravenously consume everything in their path. This means suburbs AND Xurbs are toast. While much of this depends on the paths of egress.. it also is highly dependent on the size of the population that is moving. 50 miles outside a population of 100k is much different than 50 miles outside a population of 1M.

We have to assume consumption is the same everywhere, and regardless of how well anyone is supplied, post SHTF, fuel and food will be finite resources. For refugees/raiders that means their ability to travel and re-supply diminishes as what fuel is left is consumed (but not replenished)... not just by the refugees/raiders, but by those in the locations the refugees/raiders are traveling to.

What we're missing is that post SHTF the rate of decline for re-supply for the refugees/raiders will actually accelerate AND compound as refugees/raiders spread out from their initial point. This is because the area they must search grows as the square of the radius. So the exponentially declining odds of success (for fuel & food) will make refugees/raiders searches for fuel & food, far less reaching the further they get from their starting point. Each time they find success it will likely be less in total than before, thus reducing their distance potential to the point that eventually they won't be able to search/raid en masse, if at all.

IMHO - by simply being beyond the radius of "one tank of gas" (since the avg. car only has 1/2 a tank) from a major metropolitan area, one can eliminate (or greatly reduce) the possibility of most refugees/raiders. If we make a few assumptions we can actually figure the distance within which one can actually be reassured that the majority of city-dwellers will not reach..

As of 2007:

Passenger cars averaged a new high of 31.2 mpg
Fleet-wide fuel economy in the United States averaged 26.6 mpg,
Light trucks averaged a separate record of 23.1 mpg.


Assumptions:

Average tank holds 20 Gallons
Average tank is only 1/2 full (10 Gallons)
Average vehicle fuel economy is 27.15mpg


Fuel(gal) x Mileage(mpg) = Miles a vehicle can travel.

10 gal x 27.15mpg = 270.15 miles

Remember that number is only the distance the vehicle could travel.... within that distance is a deviation for terrain, roads, additional searches, avoidance of other refugees/raiders and other locations... lots of variables that will eat up the distance potential. So it's a safe deduction that if one is outside that total distance potential, then the refugee/raider would have to reach you on foot, and that greatly reduces the number of people and the size of any group that could reach you. It also reduces the distance potential you need to be away from metropolitian area.

This website lets you input any address, and draw a radius (in miles) around it.

https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php

As we can see after inputting our own address... a 300 mile radius would be a LOT of real estate to cover for a refugee/raider to cover from a 360 degree perspective. It's also highly likely most refugees/raiders will stay on roads, and not deviate too far from main thoroughfares... so the key is (again) to be further removed from main roads, ensuring greater odds of maintaining security.

Most of these refugees will never make it 50 miles, because the road infrastructure was never designed to handle the volume of all of them at the same time. They will attempt to venture out, but most will likely turn back due to jammed roads, and resign themselves to sheltering in place. I think its a fair bet to assume if one is 150 - 200 miles from a major metropolitan area, and is not connected to any major road.... one could be fairly secure.

The severity of the event will determine the mortality rate of the refugees. In a "Lights Out" event this would result in a pretty quick thinning of the population (within 60 days). Less severe could honestly be worse for a well-prepared person, who hasn't kept their mouths shut about their prepping. Well-meaning preppers will have their benevolence tested.

The severity of the event will also drive the perception of WROL (Without Rule Of Law). This is why communications (TV, internet and/or radio) is such a big deal in stemming panic. The general population is addicted to communication, and I believe the loss of it will accelerate panic AND opportunism. This is when criminals act, and refugees become raiders.

I'd venture 90% of us live within 50 miles of a major urban center (1M plus). In our case, the best defense is a good offense. Anticipate the outcome of an event if possible, and act accordingly.

Those of you in the 10%... lucky you!
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:41 PM
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You also need to consider time of year - if an event occurs in the middle of a cold winter, a lot fewer people will be able to travel any great distance due to the cold (and maybe snow). Foraging and hunting/fishing will also be a lot more difficult. If you're self-contained and can survive for a few weeks with stored food and heating fuel, you'll probably outlast a large percentage of people.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:08 PM
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Like many things, I'd suspect that it depends upon how 'fast' the 'whatever SHTF' happens.

Many of the medical types and education types live in suburbs. Also, if you think about it; many 'volunteer workers' live there too. They may have 'regular' jobs, but are the real workers for organizations that look for unpaid workers. Think PTA types. Volunteer fire fighters. Volunteers for after school programs; YMCA programs, food pantries/food drives, library volunteers, tons of 'walks to cure this or that', runs for this or that cause, doing this or that job at their church, volunteer for habitat for humanity, hospital/nursing home visitations, thrift store volunteers, etc. etc. etc.

In a 'slow' shtf it would be interesting how they 'organize' to deal with that.
Houston just got done doing this. Harvey was dealt with in a manner that I'm sure very few cities in this country could have. There were helpers as far as the eye could see and generosity abound. For some it was a two week SHTF, for others it may still be going a year later. The idea of looters was quickly met on our neighborhood Facebook page making sure ample protection was abound. When we were all clear, we helped those closest by and kept expanding. It was a beautiful thing watching all those helping hands. I have no idea how long things would have stayed that way but it's more hopeful then some of you make it.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:26 AM
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Something else to consider - in a 'fast-burn' scenario (e.g. EMP, etc.) where resources availability disappears very quickly, the folks in those suburban houses are going to run through their food, water, medical supplies, etc. pretty quickly and have to either locate new resources or displace. Some small number of folks will have gardens, access to lakes/streams/rivers/etc. for water and fish, etc. and may be able to extend their survival or, if they're even moderately prepared, reach a steady-state where they can continue to survive while remaining in their suburban location. The rest will consume what they have and move out in search of resources. So you'll have some small 'islands' of survivors, who may be able to remain incognito, and a lot of empty houses. As the vultures begin migrating out of the city they'll be scavenging and encountering mostly empty houses, stripped resources and forted-up survivors, so my guess is that they'll start to think that scavenging more suburban locations is a waste of time and beeline for the rural areas (which is a whole 'nother discussion).
If it's winter, the empty houses will get torn apart and the parts and pieces burned for heat. The metal will get scrapped/sold/traded for reuse. The occupied houses will become very obvious as the houses around them get torn down and burned. Some houses will simply get burned out of anger and frustration, including (and maybe especially) occupied ones. If it's not winter, eventually it will be.

Better off working with neighbors now, so there's little communities and neighbors then, instead of individuals. With the right HMO, a subdivision could actually do OK, depending on Which SHTF...
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:59 AM
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You also need to consider time of year - if an event occurs in the middle of a cold winter, a lot fewer people will be able to travel any great distance due to the cold (and maybe snow). Foraging and hunting/fishing will also be a lot more difficult. If you're self-contained and can survive for a few weeks with stored food and heating fuel, you'll probably outlast a large percentage of people.
This winter we had enough snow at times that it was difficult to travel with the roads being plowed constantly. They shut the interstate down multiple times in multiple areas for several days. There was a 200 mile stretch of I-80 closed during the last snow storm.

Weather does have a huge impact. It even drains a lot of supplies from the stores before it hits.
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:17 AM
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And there are suburbs and there are suburbs. Compton is a suburb of LA. You going there or are you going around it? Though given the design of LA you can almost consider the entire LA basin one big suburb.

In other cities the suburbs might be across rivers, or like Kansas City, Saint Louis, Chicago, or Dallas/Fort Worth the suburbs extend for 50-100 miles. You could drive at interstate speeds for several hours to cross them.

Where I live, the city's core has a population density lower then the "suburbs" of NYC. The suburbs even a lower population density.

If a SHTF right now though, the people in the city here are likely going to be trapped because there are flood damaged interstates and roads everywhere. I-80 is the only major road left and many of the smaller roads were washed out. I'm supposed to travel to the KC area but I-29 is closed from here to St. Joseph, MO (~140 miles). So I'll have to snake my way down on 2 lane highways through small towns and cut over or go to I-70 then east. There's a thread about blocking roads. Here, there are 5 or 6 bridges that are absolutely required or the people are stuck, or limited to walking, swimming, and a boat.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:24 PM
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I live in the suburbs and fully understand that things would not be peachy there if an event happened that caused urban folks to start looking for resources in the suburbs.

Given the close proximity, it is simply the next stop if resources dried up in the city center. Depending where you live in the US, suburbs can lean one way or another politically (individualist mindset vs collectivist), or they could be split. Ironically, those with an individualist mindset would be more likely to band together to protect what is theirs, because they have the means to do so. Others will just be along for the ride, taking, and needing help.

My area is pretty divided politically, and has in the last 5 years started leaning way more left. It used to be a conservative stronghold. My neighbors are all either retirees, or 30-40 year old liberals with 5-7 year old kids. I have one neighbor who is probably more politically aligned with me, but I know him enough to not trust him. I would guess, just based on knowing my neighbors a little bit, they would all be looking to me for help. I’m not it.

In other words, it isn’t practical or value added for me to defend my house in the burbs if things have gone that far south and people’s homes are being attacked and ransacked. I’ll load up the family, the truck, and hitch up the trailer, and it’ll be off to the cabin long before the bad element rears its head in the suburbs.
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:23 PM
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If it's winter, the empty houses will get torn apart and the parts and pieces burned for heat. The metal will get scrapped/sold/traded for reuse. The occupied houses will become very obvious as the houses around them get torn down and burned. Some houses will simply get burned out of anger and frustration, including (and maybe especially) occupied ones. If it's not winter, eventually it will be.

Better off working with neighbors now, so there's little communities and neighbors then, instead of individuals. With the right HMO, a subdivision could actually do OK, depending on Which SHTF...
Where's the food gonna come from?
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:16 PM
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Some of my thoughts on suburban prepping

Every place on earth has advantages and disadvantages for use as a prepper home or alternate. Every one of those places can be turned into a good prepper home or alternate, given enough thought, time, money, and effort. Every one of those places can be useless for a given set of circumstances, depending on what they are. Every one of those places can be taken by someone else, given enough thought, time, money, and effort.

There is no perfect place. There are places where it can be easier and cheaper to turn into a prepper haven. Suburban areas are no different. Some of them actually lend themselves to being set up for prepping. Others definitely not so much.

Much of it depends on exactly where it is, what is around it, the type of people in the area, the proximity to certain difficult situations, the type of ground, the availability of water, the political climate of the area, the presence or absence of HOA and similar organizations that are likely to try and limit what is done.

If the suburban area is right in the middle of a major evacuation or escape route from an area with large populations, less-than-desirable populations, from areas already suffering major difficulties, and if the suburban area is not in a highly productive area, then it is going to be tough to get prepared well enough to be able to last out the exodus without being recognized as a good target and attacked with enough strength, skill, and determination to overcome even extensive defensive measures.

It still might be able to be done. Definitely more difficult. It will not be easy, in any event. At least, not unless you are the first one that can choose where to build in the area, can get a suitable piece of property, and build what is needed without interference or knowledge of exactly what you are doing. Might still not be easy, but it will sure be easier.

Now, building your own prepper design will be a huge plus than trying to convert an existing place, unless you happen to be lucky enough to find one that another prepper designed and build and decides to leave.

Still, even without all of these advantages, much can still be done to increase the probabilities of survival in a suburban area during many, even most events that would be considered bad enough to require the activation of a Prepper Plan to deal with it.

Almost all of these techniques have been mentioned in relation to other areas, for other situations, for various sets of reasons. They are pretty much universal and simply need to modified to fit the specific place.

1) Maintain Operational Security at all times.
2) Maintain Situational Awareness at all times.
3) Do not look like a target.
4) Incorporate defensive measures in every aspect of the place. Barriers to enter the property, barriers to approach the home, methods to guide anyone approaching into the area(s) you have created to make it easy to neutralize them, methods to both light brightly and to make as dark as possible various parts of the property and home. Install and learn how to use standard systems for security, fire detection, structural problems (leaks, power outage, etc.), event warnings, and similar systems. Also think outside the box and include other types of systems and methods to maintain security, to resist any attempts to violate the security, and methods and means to take the defense outward if needed.
5) Incorporate plans and methods to dis-engage safely if attacked by forces you cannot defeat or run off.
6) Beyond basic situational awareness of the area around you, stay informed of what is happening in expanding areas from your home, and all other places you regularly spend time. Neighborhood, local area, town or city, township, county, state, region, national, and international.
7) Maintain a state of readiness that is acceptable for your situation and practice increase that state of readiness for specific types of events. Run drills and practices. Incorporate training in all the activities that you and the family do. Be ready to react at all times.
8) Have ready the means to divert, distract, conceal, mislead, obscure, camouflage, disconcert, and frighten people so they will pass by or avoid your place. These can be props to make it look like the house is heavily damaged, unusable, dangerous, not worth any effort, etc. If it looks abandoned, people will likely try to squat. If it looks like people are using it and have ‘stuff’ people will likely try to take over. If it and the people there look like they are struggling, and are barely making it themselves, but have the appearance of being able to defend themselves, most people will pass on by. Be ready for an attack at all times, however.
9) Have the materials and means to install devices that cannot currently be owned, much less used, as means of protection.
10) Have at hand information that can be given out directing people to where they can (or might be able to) get help. Water, food, shelter, etc.
11) Do not give out any food, blankets, medicine, or the like. Only water. Perhaps. And even if you have cases of bottled water, have several empties, with labels removed, scuffed up a bit, and transfer the clean water to those bottles and have a few, but not many, available to give to only those that need it the worst.
12) Learn how to use items to defend yourself, your family, your home, and your property that do not appear to be weapons until used as such. You might use them first, so people do not know you are armed, and bring out the other real weapons if necessary, to win. Or, if there is reason to, present a show of force with real weapons, but use them only as a last resort and to protect life, and use the other items to defeat the aggressors if possible. Firearms especially draw a great deal of attention. They do drive off people sometimes. Other times they are a draw and people want to take them. And they often give the impression that you have way more than what is apparent, because you are using weapons to defend it.
13) If you can, in a casual way, without violating OPSEC, try and get the neighbors to get set up so they can and will help in the defense of the area. You do not have to disclose you are a prepper, and be very subtle in guiding people into higher levels of prepping by directing them to FEMA websites, CERT operations, Amateur Radio, Red Cross Volunteering, and similar operations. Later on, if there is an obvious neighborhood trend toward being ready for various ‘normal’ disasters, things like gardening, home canning and dehydrating, neighborhood watch, and other more involved activities might be suggested.
14) Have another place to go temporarily locally, as well as one or more places further away, outside of the suburban area, and have what is needed to get to them with the things you need to keep going.
15) While street after street of cookie cutter homes might look like, at first glance, that you cannot see very far, nor have a need for a weapon that can be effective at ranges over 300-yard, this is often simply an illusion. Even in the middle of a central business district, with skyscrapers everywhere, you can often see for hundreds, even thousands of yards down some of the streets. And there could be a danger wayyyyyy out there that requires a weapons with the power to do damage at those ranges.
16) In tightly packed suburban housing developments, it might be difficult to secretly grow an open outdoor garden. But there are ways to grow at least some things without any obvious indication that it is food. Even some meat animals, such as rabbits and fish, can be raised without it being apparent. And if you like to have pets, but do not mind eating them if necessary, there are miniature pigs, large rodents of various types, and some other animals that people will accept as being a pet when, in fact, they are meat on the hoof, so to speak. (You thought I was going to say dogs and cats and birds, did you not?)
17) There can be cases where living in an actual home might not work well, if at all. There are other ways to live, however. Using the gray-man concept or a modified version thereof, or making yourself look homeless, and even living ‘homeless’ for certain times, with or without a more decent base that can be much more effectively hidden or camouflaged, where you can keep extra supplies and get out of the worst of the weather or during riots and such. There are posts on the forum about both types of existence.
18) There are some specific dangers in suburban and urban areas now that did not exist previously. The advent of technology has made it much easier for TPTB (The Powers That Be) and other organizations to monitor and track individuals and groups. Because of this, there are some types of disasters that can occur where these systems will still be working and will make ‘getting by with’ many things much more difficult and dangerous. And that is just for more or less regular rule of law situations. If TPTB and/or the government, and/or the ‘shadow government’, and/or the deep state, are the disaster, that technology will be used as part of the attacks they will be using. So having a plan and the materials needed to protect yourself, your family, your business, and your very lifestyle from the surveillance technologies, monitoring technologies, tracking technologies, drone technologies, and increasingly effective and used AI system should be considered and incorporated. Again, there are posts about this subject here on the forums.
19) Where Rule Of Law continues to exist, or will come back quickly, all the normal rules and laws must be followed, or there will be serious consequences. If the situation is bad enough that it becomes a WROL (without rule of law) situation where there is not organized, legitimate government in existence, things can change. Rapidly. There will be others that begin to do things that might be punished later on, well before the actual WROL begins, so be prepared to act in accordance with the law, but still make sure you win.
20) If it is a true PAW (Post-Apocalyptic World) situation, there is going to be a large die-off of people. If you can maintain through that, then other options open up. Growing large gardens and even having farms in and amongst the suburban landscape becomes possible. Sources of water can be accessed that could not before. Power lines can be isolated and a local power distribution system set up. The same with the water system, telecommunications, and gas (switching to propane but using the natural gas lines if they exist).


There are many other possibilities that will work in some situations. However, they will not all work in every situation. There will be some suburban areas that you really do not want to try to make work as a prepper home. Simply too expensive, to difficult, and to visible.

Just like deep wilderness, rural, urban, and even CBD (central business district), suburban areas can work, just not for every situation possible. Then, no place is guaranteed to work for every situation anyway.

Just my opinion.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibbershabber View Post
Really though, most people live in a suburban setting... 20-30 minutes from the downtown of their city.


These neighborhoods would be more realistically threatened by the rabble from the inner city areas. More susceptible to threats from right down the road... local grocery stores, etc would be hotspots for trouble... same with strip malls, etc.

Trouble will spring up quick and you will have to react instantly... not like being in the sticks and having the advantage of long range shots or ANY stand off capability... etc


In many ways I would consider these areas to be the most dangerous in WROL or long term disaster scenarios.


What are your thoughts on defense, equipment, etc... any other unique considerations for not being in the rural areas or the inner city?
We're counting on you guys to kill half of the urban scum
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