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Old 08-10-2014, 03:44 PM
bobsurvival bobsurvival is offline
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definately my go to. easy to come across ammo
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Old 08-10-2014, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamphog View Post
if this retard can hit 300 yards with a slugs with no sights while standing so can anyone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaQnaRW6brU
Quite remarkable. I found this one an eye opener as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NrwUxYwhJvE
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:05 AM
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12 gauge and AR15 are my primary guns in shtf. Wouldn't pick one over the other. Each tool has a job.
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:10 AM
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There is many answer for this as it varies, it depends of your scenario.

If you believe history is correct and civilian unrest will lead to civilian and criminal CQB with sudden surprise violent attacks, well then as you can see the armed forces and police also use a 12 gauge, this is absolutely a great weapon. This is historically what happens in Western and Eastern societies during unrest.

If you believe that when SHTF people will become isolated cells that attack each other in a military manner, well then battle rifles are fantastic choices. This scenario is like life is in some Arab nations such as Yemen today.

During my service we were equipped with shotguns when patrolling inside camp, when we were in CQB exercises, and it's a fantastic weapon to be recon with for this purpose. Even to evac or bugging out it is great. However if your environment is suburban a battle rifle in 223 would be better to rely on. An AR15, Ak47, AK74, Galil, HK or a Mini 14/30 would be a great gun. If however it is rural and you add in big bruins, moose hunting and long distance shooting a 308 battle rifle would be better to rely on especially if your strategy is bugging in.

Hence there is no answer which is correct, it depends on your situation and what your scenario is. For a typical situation where you stay put in your house and a pandemic is raging, or power is out, a shotgun is a perfect gun to protect your house. If you bug out a shotgun will be a useful defense for sudden attacks typical for evacuations and so forth. But so is a carbine or a handgun, according to police reports criminals fear a street sweeper more than any other gun, so maybe a shotgun defers better who knows?

If you look at former Yugoslavia, the problem were military snipers, and they were hidden, shot from cover from a distance. In that event a shotgun would suck, you could never fight back or protect yourself. Any battle rifle would be better as you could lay suppressive fire while evacuating the area, but that would only work if you knew where the snipers were. Basically getting the heck out of a city in such a case would be a good strategy, but that was an armed conflict and not civilian unrest scenario.
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Old 08-16-2014, 03:00 PM
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It's definitely my go to...but situation allows for it. If SHTF I'm with my fiance who is a much better shot with the handgun than I am, so she will be carrying that. Me, being larger and stronger can handle the weight of the shotgun and ammo far better than she can. On top of that I live in a semi-urban environment (250k people sprawled out) so the shotgun will be good in that environment. Also, we only own the two guns, so the other options of sticks and stones don't seem as viable as the firearms.

I will agree with many though is saying that the shotgun is a great shtf weapon overall for it's versatility, but something that's lighter and carries far more rounds like an ar-15 should definitely be on everyone's list to purchase for shtf.
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Old 08-16-2014, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by thebrookdweller View Post
It's definitely my go to...but situation allows for it. If SHTF I'm with my fiance who is a much better shot with the handgun than I am, so she will be carrying that. Me, being larger and stronger can handle the weight of the shotgun and ammo far better than she can. On top of that I live in a semi-urban environment (250k people sprawled out) so the shotgun will be good in that environment. Also, we only own the two guns, so the other options of sticks and stones don't seem as viable as the firearms.

I will agree with many though is saying that the shotgun is a great shtf weapon overall for it's versatility, but something that's lighter and carries far more rounds like an ar-15 should definitely be on everyone's list to purchase for shtf.
Gonna get yourself a sidearm for a backup?
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:16 AM
DunRanull DunRanull is offline
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A shotgun would NOT be my first go-to. Ammo too heavy, range limited and sights not that exact due to the nature of the beast. Also, limited success on car bodies...
Mine is and has been Mitchell Arms AK47. Or a Chinee- both in 7.62. Also a Colt M4 or AR15. Plenty mags, good to go. I got the M4 on impulse one day in Wally, paid a lot more for it than the price of the DPMS M4 TYPE next to it... figgered Colt is THE Standard OFF THE LINE AR type. I like to use soft-point in the 7.62 but a case of mil-spec surp will work too.
As many have pointed out the 12ga is hard to carry much ammo with, pound for pound. Same can be said of 7.62X39 v 5.56NATO.
I have used and qualified with shottie many times in my job experience and slugs work fine out to 50 yards, possibly a bit further. I'm talkin adrenalised, pumped-up huff-puff breathing blood-pounding work, not "sure-shots" on the range. Also you need to know instinctively where your weapon points...
In most cases I prefer the AK or AR. Or something in 7.62X51.
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebrookdweller View Post
It's definitely my go to...but situation allows for it. If SHTF I'm with my fiance who is a much better shot with the handgun than I am, so she will be carrying that. Me, being larger and stronger can handle the weight of the shotgun and ammo far better than she can. On top of that I live in a semi-urban environment (250k people sprawled out) so the shotgun will be good in that environment. Also, we only own the two guns, so the other options of sticks and stones don't seem as viable as the firearms.

I will agree with many though is saying that the shotgun is a great shtf weapon overall for it's versatility, but something that's lighter and carries far more rounds like an ar-15 should definitely be on everyone's list to purchase for shtf.
Seems like you need at least one more pistol (assuming that what you already have is 9mm or .45).
A 5.56 rifle or carbine or an AK, with mags seems in order too. But funds can be an issue too...
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:51 PM
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No.My primary is my M1A NM.My secondary is my FN-SLP 12ga.I guess it depends on the situation and if I get a choice,but most times 21 rds of .308 beat 8 rds of OO....
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckhunter76 View Post
I dropped a goose at 94 yards with mine.
the fact that you would attempt a 94 yd shot makes you a D-Bag in the 1st place. 40 yds is considered a long shot for flying birds in particular. 2nd, if it was 94 yds it either died of a heart attack or old age.

to the posters original question, yes a shotgun is probably my primary shtf weapon cause I can do so much with it. jack of all trades, master of none, and its not as heavy as a lot of folks make you want to believe and you can find ammo in any sporting goods shop.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corybdesign View Post
the fact that you would attempt a 94 yd shot makes you a D-Bag in the 1st place. 40 yds is considered a long shot for flying birds in particular. 2nd, if it was 94 yds it either died of a heart attack or old age.

to the posters original question, yes a shotgun is probably my primary shtf weapon cause I can do so much with it. jack of all trades, master of none, and its not as heavy as a lot of folks make you want to believe and you can find ammo in any sporting goods shop.
How do you measure a 94 yard shot on a flying animal, anyway?
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Old 08-20-2014, 02:17 AM
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How do you measure a 94 yard shot on a flying animal, anyway?
It was flying horizontal to us and went straight down....we stepped it off to wear he touched down
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Old 08-20-2014, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corybdesign View Post
the fact that you would attempt a 94 yd shot makes you a D-Bag in the 1st place. 40 yds is considered a long shot for flying birds in particular. 2nd, if it was 94 yds it either died of a heart attack or old age.

to the posters original question, yes a shotgun is probably my primary shtf weapon cause I can do so much with it. jack of all trades, master of none, and its not as heavy as a lot of folks make you want to believe and you can find ammo in any sporting goods shop.
Your right....your absoulutely right....its not like a head shot with BB would kill him LMFAO so it just had to be a heart attack even though there were hits to the head with the BB......we had the equiptment to make that shot....12 gauge with super full chokes and shells that were flying 1700fps and my buddy was shooting his reloads that were clocked at over 1800fps...and patterened our shells and shotguns to various distances to see how tight the patterns were.......the way I hunt is if I know I can't hit it...I don't even pull up on em...I refuse to spray and pray.....the fact that soooo many people question this sooo heavily makes me wonder how much experience some people actually have on shotguns....the fact that people can hit targets with slugs out to 300 yards on video...I'm sure people can drop waterfowl at 100 yards....but a D-bag you say lol sir if you think that a 94 yard shot on a goose that we for the most part practice for is that unethical and unsafe...then you lack waterfowl experience....I've witnessed a lot worse things then a 94 yard shot
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:57 AM
Ctehan Ctehan is offline
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You really can't go wrong with a 12 gauge, as I believe, most Shtf situations are well within the 75 yard prerequisite. The scary part is when the S is 3 feet away.. Or 6. A 590 with a bayonet is handy, amd shot ammo can be easily made at home. Last ditch, it would be most versatile. Hell, load on old M500 with rocks, tissue and baking powder if you need to. It will still shoot.
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Old 08-20-2014, 12:26 PM
arleigh arleigh is offline
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In reference to defensive training,

As or more important than right gun, is the training to act , be a warrior, in that moment of truth.
Cops die because they don't act when all the perimeters of an attack are about take place , or they panic and only one first shot is connected, the rest are every where else.

Hitting paper or steel targets are not people shooting back .

Bad guys hide behind things and people unless they are on drugs .

The target is not going to stand there in the open even at 100 yards .

Skills shooting at great distances are nothing, if not combined with adrenaline and the fear of being hit.

Secondly ,

Hitting a moving target is not child's play.

One has to understand the speed of the projectile, and the speed of the target so that they converge.

Most avid shooters can't hit moving targets, and a friend of mine proved it repeatedly .

He would take a remote control plane and fly it 50' in front of about 20-30 shooters, (in the desert) and none of them could hit it, not even the tail.

Not one knew how to lead the target ,even at a consistent speed, and even with automatic fire.

And I saw most every caliber and style gun, being represented there.

Out of most all shooters I know , few know how to shoot from the hip , or are very good at it. And these are not first timers ,these are old timers and of every social economic class some are/were cops.
My sheriffs captain encouraged practice shooting from the hip.

If a bear is charging you or some one you love 50 yards away ,how will you stop it at 50 yards?

How long will it take you to act, when you see the scenario unfold ?
It's not a video game.
Nor making a movie with several takes.
recognize threat - act .

Most events take place when one least expects it , that's the whole plan of attack of course.

I can tell you this,
If I see a barrel being lowered, or swung in my direction, I'm not waiting for it to be pointing at me, before I act.
Notice that soldiers are not taking muskets to battle, why is that ?
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Old 09-17-2014, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckhunter76 View Post
Your right....your absoulutely right....its not like a head shot with BB would kill him LMFAO so it just had to be a heart attack even though there were hits to the head with the BB......we had the equiptment to make that shot....12 gauge with super full chokes and shells that were flying 1700fps and my buddy was shooting his reloads that were clocked at over 1800fps...and patterened our shells and shotguns to various distances to see how tight the patterns were.......the way I hunt is if I know I can't hit it...I don't even pull up on em...I refuse to spray and pray.....the fact that soooo many people question this sooo heavily makes me wonder how much experience some people actually have on shotguns....the fact that people can hit targets with slugs out to 300 yards on video...I'm sure people can drop waterfowl at 100 yards....but a D-bag you say lol sir if you think that a 94 yard shot on a goose that we for the most part practice for is that unethical and unsafe...then you lack waterfowl experience....I've witnessed a lot worse things then a 94 yard shot
i've been waterfowling for 20+ years all over the country and guide but i lack waterfowl experience, ok armchair commando/hunter. a slug and spread birdshot are completely different ballistically. super full chokes and high speed large birdshot blow patterns out and make them inconsistent at best. anything over 40 yards is spray and pray, not to mention that 94 paces isn't 94 yards mr. wizard. BB shot size doesn't have the weight and therefore mass to maintain enough energy to kill past 50 yards, all you have to do is look it up on the internet. lets also remember that a minimum effective pattern for water fowling is 70% of pellets in a 30" circle at a given yardage. on carillons choke tube website they range a full choke at 40+ yards with steel which is the tightest choke usually recommended for steel. the difference between that and their super full turkey choke is .015 inches diameter. your not going to double your effective range at that minimal difference when the most you gain in lower chokes of the same diameter differential is 5-10 yards. even ammo and choke manufacturers claims of long shots with lead and super full turkey chokes don't advertise longer than around 55-60 yards on a non moving turkey with a head shot. in short your either a liar or a moron, i'll let the other members make up their own minds.
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:17 PM
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you might find this post a bit strange
I have been shot with both a 45acp and a 12 gauge with 00 buck.
The 45 hurt way more..why?

I was only hit with 3 pellets .they curved around my leg leaving only deep gashes.
why?
I was about 80 yards away from the dude. he had cylinder bore shorty

people have a lot of misconceptions about the shotgun
from a Ballistics standpoint the shotgun is only marginally increased in power from the 1800s coach guns
where as Rifle rounds are a 3 to 4 fold increase in power

on a side note
the shotgun has the shortest shelf life of all ammunition....20 year old shells wont shoot
I have fired 50 year old rifle rounds
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corybdesign View Post
i've been waterfowling for 20+ years all over the country and guide but i lack waterfowl experience, ok armchair commando/hunter. a slug and spread birdshot are completely different ballistically. super full chokes and high speed large birdshot blow patterns out and make them inconsistent at best. anything over 40 yards is spray and pray, not to mention that 94 paces isn't 94 yards mr. wizard. BB shot size doesn't have the weight and therefore mass to maintain enough energy to kill past 50 yards, all you have to do is look it up on the internet. lets also remember that a minimum effective pattern for water fowling is 70% of pellets in a 30" circle at a given yardage. on carillons choke tube website they range a full choke at 40+ yards with steel which is the tightest choke usually recommended for steel. the difference between that and their super full turkey choke is .015 inches diameter. your not going to double your effective range at that minimal difference when the most you gain in lower chokes of the same diameter differential is 5-10 yards. even ammo and choke manufacturers claims of long shots with lead and super full turkey chokes don't advertise longer than around 55-60 yards on a non moving turkey with a head shot. in short your either a liar or a moron, i'll let the other members make up their own minds.
Like I've said in another thread...I honestly don't care if ya believe me or not...I did it...I never did it again and I'm not going to pull up on birds far ever again cause there was a huge amount of luck involved but what ever I'm not going to attempt it again..shots like that aren't unheard of.....I've talked to people who dropped a fox/coyote (don't remember what one) at 200 yards or something like that with buckshot...there are videos of people hitting targets at 300 yards with slugs....as for the paces...I've been playing football a large portion of my life and am now coaching/reffing football...I think I know how to step off a yard by now
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