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Old 05-11-2020, 02:30 PM
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Default The New Normal, How do we stop the next virus?



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I dont believe this is over. I think we have stopped the momentum of round one, but I will not be suprized if we get round two next fall, or perhaps another new virus next year.

So how do we rebuild our country so we dont get steamrolled next time. How can we drasticlly slow the spread of infectious disease without closing schools, resturants, and most face to face service jobs.

This is hard. I am going to spend time thinking, before suggesting anything.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:45 PM
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All we have to do is look to history for a list of things that work, but we won't do.


Cooties and countries used to lock down sooner, harder, more often, and shorter.

It costs though. We would rather go as long as possible and then pay more.


Teliwork/school would be better also, but that would be giving up control.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:48 PM
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I used to travel extensively for work. At least one city per week, and some time four different locations in a row.
I strongly believe that non critical buisiness travel is over.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:50 PM
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Things will return to normal after the vast majority of people have been exposed assuming people can build long term immunity or when a vaccine is widely available.

Look at the history of polio (including problems with early vaccines).
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
I used to travel extensively for work. At least one city per week, and some time four different locations in a row.
I strongly believe that non critical buisiness travel is over.
I believe it would be a good thing if it were. (Financial bottom line for the company along with other reasons)

BuT I think it 'll take a harsher lesson than we have had yet. (Reduce... Sure.)
Have to wait and see if that lesson is forthcoming.

JMHO, YMMV.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:59 PM
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The next new normal is how we greet each other, and how we celebrate an agreement or sale.
No more hugging, or shaking hands, and or you only kiss your spouse.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:08 PM
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Kids and schools are really hard. Any parent knows how these walking petri dishes share viruses and infectous disesse.

Any large scale trend to permanent home schooling would be a massive impact to working families.
Only ideas I gave are small schools and very small classrooms. I strongly believe in one on one teaching, but this is a big problem.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:10 PM
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I think the grocery store will continue cleaning off the handle of their shopping carts, or have cleaning supplies available.
I also believe that hand washing and face masks will become normal for shopping in public.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
Kids and schools are really hard. Any parent knows how these walking petri dishes share viruses and infectous disesse.

Any large scale trend to permanent home schooling would be a massive impact to working families.
Only ideas I gave are small schools and very small classrooms. I strongly believe in one on one teaching, but this is a big problem.
I will make a big post later when I have a keyboard...one of the things that would need to go away is both parents working, or nuclear families.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:24 PM
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OP...you keep thinking, but people always bow to nature. Nature does not bow to humans. Humans think they can always find a perfect fix for every problem they have created. That is not always the case.

Best we can do is to try and restructure our world to be more in harmony with nature. But that would involve a great die off. We built our world on a Ponzi scheme of unsustainability. You can't pull out the rug and expect a good result. And even if we wanted to change course that would require cooperation. You know how good the world cooperates with each other.

But the underlying fact is this. Even if we started to live sustainably like sodbusters...the corrosive virus is here to stay and is not going anywhere just cause we got religion.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:29 PM
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China is not our friend. I'd restrict their access to anything US now. They steal technology, violate patients, engage in industrial spying, send us poisons in our goods and quite often plagues and epidemics. Why bother with a country like that. We treat Iran harsher for doing less to us.

Quarantine the Chinese every time they enter or leave the country. That would make it easier to check them for bugs and theft. The trade war with China was a good thing for the country long term. The US needs to think more long term.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:38 PM
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Pandemics disproportionately come from china. How do you get the world's largest nation to change deep rooted beliefs and behaviors?

There's debate about what ended the the various plague and cholera pandemics, but ultimately improvements in sanitation and pest control prevent recurrance. AIDs is still a pandemic with a death toll of of over 30 million. Largely controlled in western nations through education, small behavior changes, and PPE (condoms).

Wuhan virus is a different animal though. It's a respiratory virus. Looking back at history, we don't generally "stop" those. We survive them. Given that it appears china discovered this bug in 2018 we could possibly have a vaccine or efficacious treatments for it by now had we known AND had we been extremely motivated from the get go.

I don't have the answers. Wiping china off the face of the earth isn't realistic. Completely shutting down international travel and immigration isn't realistic. We can't even curtail it to the point of screening everyone who comes in. Changing our way of life so that respiratory viruses aren't transmissible would be extremely weird and dystopian.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:40 PM
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One thing I know is that I am so happy to be happily married. The dating world has not only changed, but almost shut down. At least the in person stuff. I am so glad I am not single!
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:21 PM
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Blaming the Chinese is a cop out to justify the feeble efforts this country has made to control an epidemic that Trump acknowledged was coming back in January. Look at past efforts to control diseases much more damaging than C19. When TR realized that the US couldn't complete the Panama Canal unless someone could figure out how to control malaria and yellow fever, he picked the guy with the most experience and education, gave him total control of the program, and gave him the resources and authority to get the job done. Trump picked Mike Pence who couldn't find his butt with both hands and a hunting dog, and is currently "self quarantining" because he was too stupid to wear a mask.
We might not know what to do, but we know what not to do.
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Old 05-11-2020, 09:33 PM
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We have actual news stories, and not fake Russia hoaxes and fake impeachments wasting everyone's time and nrg on wasted bunch of nothing. They maybe a news agency and reporter might have honed in on how dangerous some of these labs are, and do they have proper controls in place, and well - possibly the entire pandemic doesn't happen. Thanks news? I'm so glad I knew all about a fake impeachment, but nothing about a dangerous high level Bio lab that ended up shutting down the world for months. By the way media, what is the current status of this lab? Are they just going to release another one as soon as the world is finally getting its pants back on front he first virus? Curious minds want to know media. Bueller … Bueller..

Glad I know that Trump may have spoken to an Asian CNN reporter in a way Wolf Blitzer did not like. Any real stories CNN? oh, that's right - they don't do that.
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Old 05-12-2020, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
I will make a big post later when I have a keyboard...one of the things that would need to go away is both parents working, or nuclear families.
We all know that you are against schools. Do you really think homeschooling is the answer?
One of the things you want to go away is both parents working? So who stays home ? Father or mother? What happens in single parent homes?
How many parents here are qualified to teach the children ?
How many kids do you have in school?
So letís say.....you expect the mother to stay at home. After years of having no job experience...hubby dies or decides to run off with a younger woman. Now the mother is left alone to care for the children. No job experience....no skills....what happens now? She goes on welfare

I doubt you gave this any thought
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlagueRat708 View Post
We all know that you are against schools. Do you really think homeschooling is the answer?
An answer, yes.

Quote:
One of the things you want to go away is both parents working?
Yes.

Quote:
So who stays home ? Father or mother?
That would depend on the household, their interests and schedules. It would probably alternate.

Quote:
What happens in single parent homes?
Bad stuff. Single parent homes are to be avoided. No different than it is now.

Quote:
How many parents here are qualified to teach the children ?
All of them.

Quote:
How many kids do you have in school?
None. I was going to have one in school this fall but thats not happening now since some people instead of learning to take care of themselves for a few weeks just half to run about spreading disease so its probably going to be years now.

I never actually planned to send her to school but somehow I ended up with this super social kid who actually wants to go to school, so I was going to let her try it out but obviously now that is all off.

Quote:
So let’s say.....you expect the mother to stay at home.
Let's say.

Quote:
After years of having no job experience...hubby dies or decides to run off with a younger woman. Now the mother is left alone to care for the children.
No job experience....no skills....what happens now?
She should have been acquiring skills during those years. If she decided not to that is her failure as a human being.

Quote:
She goes on welfare
Thats what she does right now anyway. At least this way she actually can take care of the kids instead of most of the people I know on welfare that can't even do that and just use the welfare to get someone else to do it.

Of course ideally no family would be just two people anyway. You would have older parents, siblings, etc. The whole clan to work things out.

Could even be both parents could work in some households if they had other relatives who didn't and could manage.

You know....the way people lived for tens of thousands of years until about 1940 when everything turned into an industrialized dystopia. Lots of different ways people could set it up, just as they have for most of human history, without warehousing their children in government training camps just so the parents can be good little drones and prop up that GDP.

Quote:
I doubt you gave this any thought
Only 30-35 years worth.
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
An answer, yes.



Yes.



That would depend on the household, their interests and schedules. It would probably alternate.



Bad stuff. Single parent homes are to be avoided. No different than it is now.



All of them.



None. I was going to have one in school this fall but thats not happening now since some people instead of learning to take care of themselves for a few weeks just half to run about spreading disease so its probably going to be years now.

I never actually planned to send her to school but somehow I ended up with this super social kid who actually wants to go to school, so I was going to let her try it out but obviously now that is all off.



Let's say.



She should have been acquiring skills during those years. If she decided not to that is her failure as a human being.



Thats what she does right now anyway. At least this way she actually can take care of the kids instead of most of the people I know on welfare that can't even do that and just use the welfare to get someone else to do it.

Of course ideally no family would be just two people anyway. You would have older parents, siblings, etc. The whole clan to work things out.

Could even be both parents could work in some households if they had other relatives who didn't and could manage.

You know....the way people lived for tens of thousands of years until about 1940 when everything turned into an industrialized dystopia. Lots of different ways people could set it up, just as they have for most of human history, without warehousing their children in government training camps just so the parents can be good little drones and prop up that GDP.



Only 30-35 years worth.
Maybe you should give it more thought.
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
We all know that you are against schools. Do you really think homeschooling is the answer?
One of the things you want to go away is both parents working? So who stays home ? Father or mother? What happens in single parent homes?
How many parents here are qualified to teach the children ?
How many kids do you have in school?
So letís say.....you expect the mother to stay at home. After years of having no job experience...hubby dies or decides to run off with a younger woman. Now the mother is left alone to care for the children. No job experience....no skills....what happens now? She goes on welfare

I doubt you gave this any thought
If you two have a pre existing argument about this, please take it somewhere else.

I dont like having to choose between massive economic carnage, and massive death loss.
I am interested in rebuilding our economy safely
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
I dont believe this is over. I think we have stopped the momentum of round one, but I will not be suprized if we get round two next fall, or perhaps another new virus next year.

So how do we rebuild our country so we dont get steamrolled next time. How can we drasticlly slow the spread of infectious disease without closing schools, resturants, and most face to face service jobs.

This is hard. I am going to spend time thinking, before suggesting anything.
people already know what the answer is.

1) develop test rapidly
2) mass produce test with high quality
3) immediate contact tracing with mandatory quarantines for infected/suspected
4) rinse/repeat
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