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Old 04-06-2020, 02:53 PM
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Default Why is there a battle over hydroxychloroquine?



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Some say hydroxychloroquine does not work. Others like Sean Hannity / Trump promote it like it is a gift sent from God.

https://www.asbmb.org/asbmb-today/op...roquine-is-not

If it works so great, why isn't it being readily used?
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Old 04-06-2020, 02:55 PM
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Politics.
Pure and simple.

The people who don't want it used KNOW that there is a 50-50 chance itll be the hot item for summer, but KNOW that ANY credence given Trump is detrimental to their cause.
Your life is NOTHING to them!
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Old 04-06-2020, 02:56 PM
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I think it's absolutely shown to work on specific cases where people with respiratory distress have shown to have a positive reaction, but it's not all and I think some in the medical world are saying "Let's not be overzealous with promoting a drug that works on some, not all." as people are of the freaking heard mentality and will buy the crap out of it, if they can, just to have it. Toilet paper is a prime example of stupidity in our society!
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Old 04-06-2020, 02:56 PM
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Isn't it a generic drug that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars a bottle?
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Old 04-06-2020, 02:59 PM
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Because people look at anecdotal evidence and proclaim they found "the cure", yet there's no actual proof of that yet and needs more trials.

So one group claims there's a cure and "they" are holding it back and hiding it, and the other group doesn't believe it's a cure and requires more research to make an actual scientific announcement.

It's possible it works, it's possible it does nothing, it's possible it works on certain groups for some reason but not on others. Lots of possibilities.

Unless you can scientifically show something works on a large group in trials, it isn't a cure for the medical community. It can be used for certain reasons, but it's not like you can reliably state at this point: Ok, it's over, just give people the treatment and they can just sick it out at home, open everything up, we've solved this and will be out of this in 3 weeks.
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soocom1 View Post
Politics.
Pure and simple.

The people who don't want it used KNOW that there is a 50-50 chance itll be the hot item for summer, but KNOW that ANY credence given Trump is detrimental to their cause.
Your life is NOTHING to them!
So why do you take health advise from a real estate developer or reporter?

The USG issues an emergency use authorization based on “ clinical data” while there are dozen of trials beginning. That’s how you settle, good clinical science. In the meantime, its a guess, abet a promising one. The EUA, says in the abesense of good evidence, the benefits appear to outweigh the the harm, and there is NOT a known more effective treatment.

There will be a whole lot more data in a month. And the simplest and least rigorous trials should have data coming out.
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by country_boy View Post
So why do you take health advise from a real estate developer or reporter?

The USG issues an emergency use authorization based on “ clinical data” while there are dozen of trials beginning. That’s how you settle, good clinical science. In the meantime, its a guess, abet a promising one. The EUA, says in the abesense of good evidence, the benefits appear to outweigh the the harm, and there is NOT a known more effective treatment.

There will be a whole lot more data in a month. And the simplest and least rigorous trials should have data coming out.
Don't go there.
I've read the reports from Spain, Israel, China and others.
I am not looking at a miracle cure at all.
I know full well the implications, but I also know government and how the morons running it think.
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:14 PM
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As a political independent and an RN, I see 2 obvious reasons.

1. Politics. Lots of politics

and

2. Throwing it at this illness will bypass almost all of the medical safeguards.

Are you old enough to remember a drug called Thalidomide? It worked great on stopping nausea, but it caused severe birth defects in babies when given to pregnant women. In this country not too many babies were affected, because we tested the meds more carefully than Europe was doing.

In a perfect world, the anti-COVID meds will be carefully tested on volunteers as an ideal dosage will be worked out, minimum effective dosage worked out, maximum safe dosage for people who are having trouble breathing, side effects that might impact a covid patient, etc. The trouble is, half of the country is shut down and people are dying NOW!

Shortcuts will probably be taken, because this is an emergency, but which shortcuts do we dare take? And, which shortcuts would be more dangerous that the COVID?

There are a couple of treatments that will probably work. They are being mass tested right now. I am pretty sure that the treatments will be available as fast as people dare
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:16 PM
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I belong to a number of support groups for lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, and Sjogren’s. Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) is one of the common drugs to treat these disorders. What makes me question this as a treatment for COVID-19 is that many people in these groups, being treated with this drug, are coming down with the virus. I heard the president in one of the briefings this weekend recommend taking it as a preventative and yet the people who have been taking it for years are still getting sick.
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Terri View Post
As a political independent and an RN, I see 2 obvious reasons.

1. Politics. Lots of politics

and

2. Throwing it at this illness will bypass almost all of the medical safeguards.

Are you old enough to remember a drug called Thalidomide? It worked great on stopping nausea, but it caused severe birth defects in pregnant women. In this country not too many babies were affected, because we tested the meds more carefully than Europe was doing.

In a perfect world, the anti-COVID meds will be carefully tested on volunteers as an ideal dosage will be worked out, minimum effective dosage worked out, maximum safe dosage for people who are having trouble breathing, side effects that might impact a covid patient, etc. The trouble is, half of the country is shut down and people are dying NOW!

Shortcuts will probably be taken, because this is an emergency, but which shortcuts do we dare take? And, which shortcuts would be more dangerous that the COVID?

There are a couple of treatments that will probably work. They are being mass tested right now. I am pretty sure that the treatments will be available as fast as people dare
Not at all the same. HCQ has been used for decades and the side effects are well known.
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
Not at all the same. HCQ has been used for decades and the side effects are well known.
Side effects are less well known for people with lung damage. And, effective dosage for this particular illness?
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:26 PM
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It is politics, pure and simple. Trump is promoting it, so the Dummocraps absolutely have to portray it as a bad ides.

Hydroxychloroquine is not a cure. In many cases, it has shortened the duration of the symptoms. That means it has potential as a treatment, just like Trump keeps repeating. Some people think that means it can be used as a preventative, but that has not been proven.

It's been used as a treatment for malaria for about 50 years.

Dr. Fauci doesn't want to promote it until it has gone through extensive clinical testing, which could take years.

So who is right? Everyone except the Dummocraps and the fake news media.
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:55 PM
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People on both sides have been blowing this out of proportion. Everyone's a little bit right and a little bit wrong.

On its face, it makes sense that this drug wouldn't work. It's an antimalarial with an antibiotic. That fights parasites and bacteria, not viruses. But there have been studies that show it may be able to weakly help fight certain types of viruses.

As of now, there are 3 papers (not studies) that showed some improvement by COVID patients who received hydroxychloroquine. These were not controlled studies that would show it works, and they were with a very small number of people. None of these papers were from the US, so as of right now there's still just a chance that it would work and no good evidence.

The president suggesting this is a miracle drug is overblown bluster that's dangerous because it might not work, might cause people to take the drug (which does have some side effects) incorrectly, and might make it harder to get to the right people who are sick if it does work.

Other people suggesting it doesn't work is wrong because we just don't know yet and it might actually be something helpful down the line, so there's no reason not to try it in the right, medically controlled environment.
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:58 PM
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As others have said, politics, but also the almighty dollar.

The Deep-State Gnat with a Napoleon Complex, aka Fauci, REALLY WANTS Big Pharma to develop a miracle cure so he, and they, will make BILLIONS.

Then you have the FDA, which next to the Dept Edu is the single largest example of a worthless Govt bureaucracy on the planet.

Until the FDA complete their test, their way (in 12-24 months), they don't care that 60 other countries are having success with HCQ. They will continue to spout out lies like we need clinical trials, it's dangerous, and it doesn't work.

And where do former Big Pharma execs work? Oh, the FDA.

So to answer the OP question - bureaucracy and corruption...and it will cost countless lives in America.

-jack
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Old 04-06-2020, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Terri View Post
Side effects are less well known for people with lung damage. And, effective dosage for this particular illness?
There is a site showing the dosages that have been used and the effects noted. It was shown a few pages back (on the main virus thread) if you are interested.
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Old 04-06-2020, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
There is a site showing the dosages that have been used and the effects noted. It was shown a few pages back if you are interested.
Dosage will vary from illness to illness.

I did not invent the standard operating procedure for approving a med for an illness: we simply covered it in nursing school. And medical professionals who depart from it might get sued for malpractice. I am not defending SOP I am only explaining it

Behind the scenes I am pretty sure that there is a lot of yelling going on: a couple of times last week I noticed that Trump and his medical experts were all slightly hoarse, and I am pretty sure that it was due to over use of their vocal cords and not a cold
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Old 04-06-2020, 04:15 PM
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It's plain and simple, it's being slammed because Trump touted it as a possible cure.

As an example:

The anti-Trump gov. of Michigan started out threatening doctors saying no one could use it in her state for covid-19.

Now she's begging for it.
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Old 04-06-2020, 04:17 PM
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Here are some new details about hydroxychloroquine.

LA doctor: COVID-19 patients go from 'very ill' to 'symptom-free' in 8 to 12 hours using hydroxychloroquine and zinc

Quote:
He added that combining the drug with zinc has been the key to the success. The hydroxychloroquine, he said, "opens the zinc channel" allowing the zinc to enter the cell, which then "blocks the replication of cellular machinery."
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Old 04-06-2020, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
Isn't it a generic drug that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars a bottle?
I paid $4.50 for the 5 day course that my doctor prescribed for me. The Azithromycin that was prescribed cost me another 4 bucks. These are generic drugs that have been around for 65 years in the case of Hydroxy and 35 years in the case of Azithromycin.
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Old 04-06-2020, 04:20 PM
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Gedreven nailed it.

There is anecdotal evidence that it could help, but its side effects can be nasty, even deadly. It's complex.

Trump got on TV and sang its praises, ignoring its side effects, which has prompted the left-media to focus on its side-effects and the deaths of some people who tried using it without medical supervision.

"My president, right or wrong" right-wingers latch onto the "miracle cure" story, while the "orange man bad" left-wingers latch onto the "unproven, dangerous" story, and talk past each other as usual.

What both sides have in common is that they ignore the complexities of reality and parrot simplistic narratives fed them by their respective hyperpartisan media.

This is politics as usual in America. There's no reason to fight over hydroxychloroquine, except that the "other side" has taken a position on it, which means "our side" must take an opposing position.
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