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Old 12-18-2019, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
I'm a bit less than 2000 air miles from the Cascade Summit at White Pass, and I'm not concerned.
Maybe you should be.



Volcano plume of a single volcano eurption. Woke up one day and a stinky fog had settled on the streets, cars covererd with fine, glass-like ash, it stung when you breatehed... and this was in Buenos Aires.
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Old 12-19-2019, 12:17 PM
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not sure how relevant volcano pic is
but very kewl

that's why so many of us are concerned about Yellowstone. that would be much much bigger.
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cannonfoddertfc View Post
Ya what do those guys at FEMA know. I mean after all the model was created by the National Infrastructure Simulation and Analysis Center Homeland Infrastructure Threat and Risk Analysis Center (HITRAC) and was based of NGS and Geospatial Data.

I am so glad you set me straight on that, that weeks long exercise back in 2016 could have steered me completely wrong.
That tsunami is gonna have a hard time climbing over the coast range, but okay, if you say so... 😏
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
(Sighs) What an ignorant, short sighted, and uninformed response:
All "labor" is NOT equally productive/useful. For example a CPA doing Fed taxes is not doing "Accounting" or producing anything. Another gov't distortion of the freemarket.

At least the silly barista is "filling" a service demanded by some idiot with more $ than brains. A free market will find Buffy something useful to do.
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Old 12-21-2019, 10:47 AM
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Ah. Ok. My inlaws were conservative church pastors and wouldn't go into a bar to save their own life. You may have crossed paths, but did not hang out😄
if there was a church in Pelican I sure missed it.
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Old 12-21-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
All "labor" is NOT equally productive/useful. For example a CPA doing Fed taxes is not doing "Accounting" or producing anything. Another gov't distortion of the freemarket.

At least the silly barista is "filling" a service demanded by some idiot with more $ than brains. A free market will find Buffy something useful to do.
Seriously? Your doubling down on stupid?

Here's a hint sweatheart:
The "free market" needs material to market!
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Old 12-21-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeross View Post
yeah, I'm not so lucky...I'm 40 miles west of Mt. St Helens, so it is of major concern to me. The fault and the volcano are the two things I am most concerned with happening....
You must be either on Highway 12, which I live near, or I-5. I am a bit familiar with that area because I have a good friend living some 8 miles SW of Chehalis and I used to visit a lot since my in-laws who lived in the Yakima Valley and I would cross White Pass a lot.
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Old 12-21-2019, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I don't think you get ti:

A hurricane that destroyed coffee trees along the equator can result in someone Laid off from their Starbucks job in Idaho.
Distance is not a factor.

That kind of ripple effect.

Port dammaged, no goods coming in, trucker out of work and not spending money, can't pay his kids college tuition, etc.

I took a couple classes on Business Continuity.
It's truly frightening how a couple % change can throw everything into chaos.
I live in an area where nearly everyone works on preparation and few are concerned about roving refugees or bandits. When I left Friday Harbor, and moved here in the early 90's, it was like a step back in time. I remember calling a friend in Washington and telling him that this place was a little like the Old West. I saw people stopping building permits, people wearing sidearms to public meetings, Randy Weaver at a patriotic meeting, dynamite used at July 4th gatherings. It has changed a lot but we have no building permits in our county and people are very patriotic, and very well armed. There are militias training, advanced civilian/military long range night sniper classes, a tactical firearms class being taught continually. I'm in my mid-70's so I don't participate in such activities anymore.

And by the way in 1970 I lived in Trout Lake which is 15 miles south of the summit of Mt. Adams.
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Old 12-21-2019, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
You must be either on Highway 12, which I live near, or I-5. I am a bit familiar with that area because I have a good friend living some 8 miles SW of Chehalis and I used to visit a lot since my in-laws who lived in the Yakima Valley and I would cross White Pass a lot.
About 10 miles southwest of the US12 - I5 interchange. Almost due east of the volcano. But all in all, better than when I was living in Oly. The Toledo/Winlock area is much nicer. (I'm a few hundred feet above the river, so no worries about floods).
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Old 12-22-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeross View Post
About 10 miles southwest of the US12 - I5 interchange. Almost due east of the volcano. But all in all, better than when I was living in Oly. The Toledo/Winlock area is much nicer. (I'm a few hundred feet above the river, so no worries about floods).
You must be near Winlock. How far off the interstate? My friend lives 7 miles away from it and he is concerned about a societal collapse. He tried to move to my area in Idaho but land prices were too high because of all the preppers moving here. You can go west in an emergency. One year I drove from Raymond to Chehalis and thought it nice country. I lived in Washington over 25 years. Nice place but the controls est of the Cascades are a bit rough. That's why I finally left in '93.
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Old 12-22-2019, 10:26 AM
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Gents, take this to the PMs. The rest of the world does not need to know where you live.
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Old 12-22-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Doubtful.


.

You must live in an urban area where people are panicked when the power goes out. Where I live most people heat with wood in stoves, not fireplaces which means they can cook if the lights go out and a Dutch oven can be used for baking quick breads. With our 30 in rainfall people can get rain water off roofs. The only thing that will kill people is lack of meds and these can come from Spokane or Salt Lake City. Refugees would be the only concern from Cascadia and I am 450 road miles from Seattle area. Lots of places for them to stop along the way.
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Old 12-24-2019, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
You must live in an urban area where people are panicked when the power goes out. Where I live most people heat with wood in stoves, not fireplaces which means they can cook if the lights go out and a Dutch oven can be used for baking quick breads. With our 30 in rainfall people can get rain water off roofs. The only thing that will kill people is lack of meds and these can come from Spokane or Salt Lake City. Refugees would be the only concern from Cascadia and I am 450 road miles from Seattle area. Lots of places for them to stop along the way.
Lol

That's some funny **** right there.

No dude, I live offgrid, past the powerlines and where they don't deliver mail.
3/6 nearest houses are offgrid. All have wood heat, and more than half the people I know locally have a garden.

But here's the thing:
I'm actually involved in my communiy. (First responder, charitable (food) giving and delivery both) etc.

My degree and background is in Emergency Management. I've responded to natural disasters, worked them in various forms from armed security, relief work, as an insurance adjuster, planning prior to etc.

And the simple fact is your fooling yourself If You believe what you just said.

I'll even buy "people you know" but dude:
I looked up the population density of the area you were talking about.... Not much difference and we have more livestock.

But there's STILL plenty of people who live hand to mouth, having at best a little leftover between grocery runs (I also know people with ROOMS of stored food.)

Hell, even of the people who post here....
Most aren't ready to go a couple months without.

But that's aside from the point your missing:

Those farmers with the livestock?
They are dependant on feed deliveries.

They are depending on the grid not being down for more than a few days to run operations.

They are depending on "the system" functioning to make their mortgage payments.


How many people do you think under the age of 55 posting on HERE could go more than 6 months without income?

Even if they have food.... There's a REALLY great thread about a Guy who lived off his preps (mostly) for a year.

Read it.

100% chance that if commerce was interrupted (like the disaster mentioned would do) JUST the economic issues (NOT mentioning food, feed, and fuel deliveries being interrupted) would turn both my and your area into chaos.

And I can sit at home and not leave my property until the chocolate runs out.

Do some research, or listen to the guy who used to do disaster planning and response for a living.... But don't just assume because of the % of the population you associate with and the assumptions you make.
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Lol

That's some funny **** right there.

No dude, I live offgrid, past the powerlines and where they don't deliver mail.
3/6 nearest houses are offgrid. All have wood heat, and more than half the people I know locally have a garden.

But here's the thing:
I'm actually involved in my communiy. (First responder, charitable (food) giving and delivery both) etc.

My degree and background is in Emergency Management. I've responded to natural disasters, worked them in various forms from armed security, relief work, as an insurance adjuster, planning prior to etc.

And the simple fact is your fooling yourself If You believe what you just said.

I'll even buy "people you know" but dude:
I looked up the population density of the area you were talking about.... Not much difference and we have more livestock.

But there's STILL plenty of people who live hand to mouth, having at best a little leftover between grocery runs (I also know people with ROOMS of stored food.)

Hell, even of the people who post here....
Most aren't ready to go a couple months without.

But that's aside from the point your missing:

Those farmers with the livestock?
They are dependant on feed deliveries.

They are depending on the grid not being down for more than a few days to run operations.

They are depending on "the system" functioning to make their mortgage payments.


How many people do you think under the age of 55 posting on HERE could go more than 6 months without income?

Even if they have food.... There's a REALLY great thread about a Guy who lived off his preps (mostly) for a year.

Read it.

100% chance that if commerce was interrupted (like the disaster mentioned would do) JUST the economic issues (NOT mentioning food, feed, and fuel deliveries being interrupted) would turn both my and your area into chaos.

And I can sit at home and not leave my property until the chocolate runs out.

Do some research, or listen to the guy who used to do disaster planning and response for a living.... But don't just assume because of the % of the population you associate with and the assumptions you make.


We have almost no farms in our area. Local farmers' markets don't last a year. Hard to farm on mountainsides and canyons. Got some acreage with cattle, but the grain farms are on the prairies. I am definitely no expert on survival, but I attend most local emergency planning committee meetings, as a visitor. Active Mormons in our area are probably very well prepared and they would likely help others in need. As for me, I get all my water off my roof. I heat with wood, all of which comes from my small acreage, and I stay at least 4 years ahead. I haven't killed a deer in several year, but I am on the edge of 1300 private but unused land, though many deer live within 200 yards of my front door. I know how to can and reuse my canning lids, and dry, as do most around me.

I don't have a garden but I have a fenced in area and seed and could garden. My daughter and I ran a small truck farm on the coast. Sandy-loam soil was better there than clay here. And if needed have a fenced in area near a creek for gravity-flow irrigation.

I lived in a city of 15,000 going to college but that was the only place. Taught in one-and two teacher schools. Play stringed instruments for recreation. Most people here are well armed and we have no required building permit. In '94 in a meeting to have permits, a noose was dropped in front of county commissioners and we never got them.

In my mid-70's, things are harder, but under most disasters ( Yellowstone eruption would destroy most of America's chance to survive, but I don't see that happening in my lifetime.) like grid down, I don't see problems for most folks.
A few years ago at a local emergency meeting a fellow announced that he and his adult son had 10,000 pounds of stored wheat which they would use to help people in my immediate area survive. And I know of people who have semi-trailers of stored grains, honey, powdered milk, beans, rice and salt and people know how to use them. And may folks here are well trained in herbology and know how to make tinctures, and poultices, and infusions, concoctions, salves and ointments. And how to make and use natural antibiotics and even collect some useful herbs.

I doubt if many on this site could make it off-grid for a year. I used to live on an island in Washington with an under sea power cable which broke one year in a storm. A lot of people suffered but my folks didn't.

In a bad situation most cows would go fast with all the hunters around.

In a few minutes I will grind grains into flour which I use every day. I have hand grinders if necessary. I will grind 1980, pre-GMO wheat, spelt, organic rye and barley, kamut, quinoa, white rice, brown rice, buckwheat, etc. I will make a yearly grain order soon to stay ahead. I have a small pressuure cooker to cook old beans on our woodstove. I use electricity now because I have it, but I have propane and wood for cooking. The wife makes biscuits in a Dutch oven on the woodstove, in winter, to stay in practice. The only thing that will mess me up is getting older and can't stop that. I have been in what my wife calls prepper/survival/living off the land mode most of our married life and I have been living that since 1954. My dad was a back-to-the-lander and didn't know it. We lived in a vertical log house that we built, shot and ate ducks, quail, deer, rabbits and pheasants. We caught and canned and smoked fish and wild turkeys and chickens, dug clams, ate oysters, and so when I moved inland, I already knew how to survive.

And I've been the preparation specialist in my church in one area for a few years. I may not have a degree in preparation but I don't know any who know more about the subject in my area. I do have an inverter, 12-volt batteries though no deep cell batteries. Can you tell me what else I might need besides youth?
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:11 PM
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We have almost no farms in our area. Local farmers' markets don't last a year. Hard to farm on mountainsides and canyons. Got some acreage with cattle, but the grain farms are on the prairies. I am definitely no expert on survival, but I attend most local emergency planning committee meetings, as a visitor. Active Mormons in our area are probably very well prepared and they would likely help others in need. As for me, I get all my water off my roof. I heat with wood, all of which comes from my small acreage, and I stay at least 4 years ahead. I haven't killed a deer in several year, but I am on the edge of 1300 private but unused land, though many deer live within 200 yards of my front door. I know how to can and reuse my canning lids, and dry, as do most around me.
Out lifestyles are very similar, except I use rattled reusable lids vs hoping I reused disposable kids correctly and don't make myself sick, have more acreage and unused land around me.

I don't have a garden I do but I have a fenced in area and seed and could garden. all Non gardners think this. My daughter and I ran a small truck farm on the coast. Sandy-loam soil was better there than clay here. And if needed have a fenced in area near a creek for gravity-flow irrigation.might be a good to put out a few test plots. To see what grows in that microclimste and what is needed.

I lived in a city of 15,000 going to college but that was the only place. Taught in one-and two teacher schools. Play stringed instruments for recreation. Most people here are well armed and we have no required building permit. In '94 in a meeting to have permits, a noose was dropped in front of county commissioners and we never got them.to climate
We have constitutional carry

In my mid-70's, things are harder, but under most disasters ( Yellowstone eruption would destroy most of America's chance to survive,actually it wouldnt. We would only get a couple once a of aah.

but I don't see that happening in my lifetime.) like grid down, I don't see problems for most folks.
A few years ago at a local emergency meeting a fellow announced that he and his adult son had 10,000 pounds of stored wheat which they would use to help people in my immediate area survive. And I know of people who have semi-trailers of stored grains, honey, powdered milk, beans, rice and salt and people know how to use them. And may folks here are well trained in herbology and know how to make tinctures, and poultices, and infusions, concoctions, salves and ointments. And how to make and use natural antibiotics and even collect some useful herbs.
that is good, but (assuming people didn't bore it for their own good security.... Do some basic math.

A years food for one person is only 3 months for 4.

10,000 lbs of wheat will last 500 people 15 days.
(Or 100 people not even long enough to get a harvest in.)

I doubt if many on this site could make it off-grid for a year.
agreed

I used to live on an island in Washington with an under sea power cable which broke one year in a storm. A lot of people suffered but my folks didn't.

In a bad situation most cows would go fast with all the hunters around.agreed

In a few minutes I will grind grains into flour which I use every day. I have hand grinders if necessary. me too I will grind 1980, pre-GMO wheat, spelt, organic rye and barley, kamut, quinoa, white rice, brown rice, buckwheat, etc. I will make a yearly grain order soon to stay ahead. I have a small pressuure cooker to cook old beans on our woodstove. I usually use jars of beans to "fill holes" in my canned when I'm pressure canning something else. This way I always have jars of cooked beans ready for recipes.


I use electricity now because I have it, but I have propane and wood for cooking.
it's a lot different not to have it

The wife makes biscuits in a Dutch oven on the woodstove, in winter, to stay in practice. I have a Waterford Stanley cookstove. Most bookstores don't hear well (small fireboxes) but the W.S. Will keep fire forn8+ hours.

If I'm not baking there's probably something dehydrating in the oven.

The only thing that will mess me up is getting older and can't stop that. I have been in what my wife calls prepper/survival/living off the land mode most of our married life and I have been living that since 1954. My dad was a back-to-the-lander and didn't know it. We lived in a vertical log house that we built, shot and ate ducks, quail, deer, rabbits and pheasants. We caught and canned and smoked fish and wild turkeys and chickens, dug clams, ate oysters, and so when I moved inland, I already knew how to survive.

And I've been the preparation specialist in my church in one area for a few years. I may not have a degree in preparation but I don't know any who know more about the subject in my area. I do have an inverter, 12-volt batteries though no deep cell batteries. Can you tell me what else I might need besides youth?
Not enough information. Might be medical, might be communicatios, probably defense judging by some of your past comments, might be networking.

But this is off topic:
I specifically said that no matter how well you and I personally were prepared, it would be the impact upon our areas and people around us.

Tell me, of all of these people you believe to be prepared:
How many are financially independent?
-including not dependant on income from businesses or government organizations that would be adversely impacted?

All have paid off places?

Etc as I have already covered.
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Old 12-27-2019, 10:48 AM
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I have no garden now but where I live, I gardened for 20 year, mulching with whatever I could find. Luckily I had no rocks in my soil. If I had to have a garden quickly, I could till a spot in an hour and haul irrigation water from my small pond 100 feet from my garden. If I needed more space and water, I would use my backup fenced garden at the bottom of my driveway and use gravity flow from two other spring fed ponds and a creek to irrigate, something I have done in the past.

As for guns, we need no permit to carry a firearm and many carry. I do if I go outside my county into the big city (40,000 pop.) 80 miles away.

The trouble with a Yellowstone eruption is like Krakatoa but much worse, ash around the world giving us no summer for a couple years. I've studied such a possibility a lot, having studied geology in college.

Having been a Mormon for over 40 years, I know all about food storage, how much is needed and how long it will last.

My close neighbors (Mormons) use your bean method but I just use my 2-qt SS pressure cooker or, grind beans into flour.

Though not doing it now, I have a over-the wood stove homemade food dryer if I needed it. (Also have an over-the stove clothes dryer.) The easiest and quickest bread to make is quick-bread like biscuits, muffins, baked oatmeal. And you can be sure that when I was a Mormon, I went to lots of meetings to get ideas. And I use my multi-grain flour every day. Next month I will order $200 worth of grains such as spelt, kamut, barley, buckwheat, millet, etc. to stay ahead. Azure Standard comes from way outside this area but is delivered to two stops, where I pick up my delivery.

The LDS Preparedness book that anyone can now purchase, lists the bare-minimum food storage requirements for one year, 2300 calories/day. I'll bet there are few on this site know what kinds of dry foods are best and where to find them. For 1 adult male---400 lbs. grain, 60 for bean, 16--75 for milk. Most people have probably never seen powdered milk. 20 for fats, sugars 60lb, 8 for salt, 14 gallons water for 2 weeks. Gives you an idea.

I have regular and alternative medical supplies. I know how to make tinctures and have many. They are made with alcohol and last forever.

Hopefully we will never have a nationwide collapse or civil war (Never have been told who the enemy would be in a civil war.
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Old 04-23-2020, 11:39 PM
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Back to the actual topic of the thread title....

Those who are arguing against the possibility of an inland tsunami either don't live in the Puget Sound region, or have never fully understood what happens in a Cascadia Subduction Megathrust Event... or possibly both.

Just off the west coast of North America, the earth expands between the enormous Pacific tectonic plate and the skinny little, sorta-triangular, Cascadia plate (which is subdivided into the Explorer, Juan we Fuca, and Gorda plates). The Cascadia plate is pushed by the expansion, but it has nowhere to go except to slide under the large North American tectonic plate.

This "sliding" is called "subduction", and it tends to happen in big jolts -- called "megathrust events" -- that have been found to occur about every 238 years on average, based on the geological record formed by the landslides they cause offshore, under the ocean.

The last one took place at around 9:00 at night on January 26th, 1700. That was over 320 years ago, so we're about 82 years overdue for the next one.

To understand why the next Cascadia quake is inevitable, and why it is likely to be a full-zone 9+ magnitude "big one" instead of a half-zone 8+ magnitude event, please see the image below.



As the earth rises up at the Pacific-Cascadia juncture, it pushes the plates apart. The Cascadia plate grows by about 3 to 4 centimeters per year. That's not much... but over time, it adds up. Over the last 320 years, it has become...

3cm/yr x 320yr x 1 meter/100cm = 9.6 meters or 31.5 feet

4cm/yr x 320yr x 1 meter/100cm = 12.8 meters or 42 feet

So the Cascadia plate now has about 30 to 42 feet of extra width that is pushing against the subduction zone where it will eventually slide under the North American plate. The North American plate is now bowed upwards with that pressure by any where from 2 feet to 8 feet, depending on location.

... Imagine the earthly shudder when the enormous pressure at the subduction zone is released, and the edge of the North American plates leaps westward by 30 to 42 feet (or more, with every year that passes), and drops downward by 2 to 8 feet everywhere along its length.

Imagine that the entire Puget Sound could move several feet to the west during the quake. What happens when you slosh water in a really big bowl?

Yes, there are mountains between the Sound and the coast... but you must understand that while they look large to us, they are barely pimples on the skin of the earth. If the earth were an orange, its crust is the thickness of apple peel. Mountains are no more than a rough spot on the peel.

So, given that there will definitely be some waves in the Sound... how high will they slosh?

There used to be a record of that in the trees that grew near the water. The Sound is salt water, so I would guess that big enough waves would knock over trees or kill standing trees with salt water, and cause landslides in unstable regions.

The only problem is that the first thing white Caucasian settlers did was cut down all the trees and move significant amounts of soil from one area (Denny Hill is now the Denny Regrade area) to another (downtown Seattle used to be below the highest tide levels).

The natural record on dry land is gone. I don't know if geologists have tried to take underwater core samples in the Puget Sound to search for historic records of landslides.

I'll post more tomorrow, but it's late and I'm tired.
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