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Old 06-03-2020, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
I agree with the let them try as many as possible thoughts, and then let "them" choose.

And personally, cost shouldnt really be a factor here (within reason). Find what works best for you and figure out a way to pay for it.

People are always bitching they cant afford this or that, but smoking a couple of packs of cigarettes a day, and drinking a case or two of beer a week, and have a current car, with a big payment, never seems to be a problem.

And while youre at it, include a decent ammo allowance too. Buying its the easy part.
Hey! You stop "Vice" shaming people
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:25 AM
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Truth hurts.
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:39 AM
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Multiple levels of fail
Why do people keep on insisting on their cream-dream firearms for other people?????

I love the notion that "my opinion is better than your opinion"
You seriously said that

Here is a crazy notion that is time-honoured
Try out a few different guns and pick the one you like best

How do you account for the Opetators, real Operators, dumping their personal 19s for P365s ?????
Memo to the Operators, the O/P knows more than you, its "opinion is better than your opinion"
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
Multiple levels of fail
Why do people keep on insisting on their cream-dream firearms for other people?????

I love the notion that "my opinion is better than your opinion"
You seriously said that

Here is a crazy notion that is time-honoured
Try out a few different guns and pick the one you like best

How do you account for the Opetators, real Operators, dumping their personal 19s for P365s ?????
Memo to the Operators, the O/P knows more than you, its "opinion is better than your opinion"
it' not a cream dream it's just a simple algorithm of sorts that's correct for people who have no idea what they want

If they train or even just practice with it to the point they find something better in the case of the Glock they can sell it for darn near what they paid for it, the others less so but will have less money tied up in it.

You're welcome
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by roseman View Post
I thought it may be a better approach then the ' I got your handgun honey' from the 'know it all' husband.
if they husband applies the algorithm likely it will turn out ok - if not well it might work out it might not.

I'm surprised and pleasantly so that I haven't gotten push back on the EZ - for those with diminished hand strength or grip they're clearly the choice.

Also pleasantly surprised the wheel gun gang has been quiet. I like revolvers but they're the absolute worst choice for beginners
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:52 AM
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Now your "opinion" is an algorithm ?????

You double-down on fail ?????

Nice.......
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Old 06-04-2020, 07:04 AM
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I think we fail to realize that even mediocre guns today are actually pretty well designed and reliable firearms. Most of us have our preferences and pre-existing biases, but even the Taurus “junk” aren’t as bad as they used to be. Still, there are dozens and dozens of good choices, but choices are only part of the equation.

I’ve got a few dozen CCW type firearms to provide for training and my wife shot just about all of them. I’ll caveat that she’s not novice shooter, she was just a novice to CCW (at that time several years ago). She, like many women, wanted a small gun, but the more she shot the pocket pistols, including the J-Frame, the more she disliked the smaller guns. She loved the larger, heavier guns (even my DW CBOB .45), but knew the weight and size would make it hard to carry. She must have shot and handled almost two dozen handguns, some mine, some in the store/rental range.

Hand fit/ergonomics are important, even for a novice shooter. While price wasn’t a factor (I was paying for it), she did do price comparisons. Certain features are important. My wife was adamant about having an external safety, even if she didn’t need to use it (not including SA autos). She knows about keeping things simple, defaulting to your training, gross-motor skills, yadda, yadda, yadda. She was willing to train with the safety; argument over.

Another caveat. My wife is a researcher and she researched women-CCW like no other from platform and caliber choices, to size, carry methods, training, etc. She was as well informed as she could be, but still a CCW novice. I’m a big advocate in letting your significant other choose their own handgun, but yeah, I was hoping Glock or HK. She chose Ruger, two models that I didn’t have or own. The original LC9 and the SR9-Compact. She likes the Compact for capacity as a training handgun and home defense gun, but she prefers the slightly smaller LC9 for CCW. She also has a small P3AT she uses for backpacking and deep concealment, but she also realizes she can do a lot more shooting and training with a larger handgun and even with smart dress attired and a good carry system, she can still carry on-body without any worries. I’m hoping I can upgrade her to the Sig P365, but for the meantime, she’s happy with what she had, loves to take classes with them, she’s proficient with them and she’ll carry or keep one of them close by.

As a side story, my wife and I took the Texas CCW class and I had a few of my junior Army officers take the class as well. One particular young, petite female officer took the class with a brand new, still in the box G27 in .40S&W; never even fire it before. She never fired a handgun, even in the Army until our last deployment to Iraq where she had an M9. She smoked the course and shot better than a few braggers. I had given her a few pointers, but she had no comparison to know that the G27 is said to be a stout CCW pistol for some people. She handled it just fine.

A couple weeks ago, I fired a friend’s S&W Shield .380 EZ and I was pretty impressed. I may very well just pick one up and add to the training handgun pile. His wife like it as it was easy to handle, slide was easy to manipulate and recoil was tame. That was her starter pistol, she now has a Glock 48 that she loves (and her husband is a dedicated Sig guy…that must have been hard to deal with )

ROCK6
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Old 06-04-2020, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by NCalHippie View Post
Why? If they never flip it to safe, they never have to remember to turn it off.

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
that isn't as dumb as it sounds, but a stop gap to be used when an better firearm with no safety isn't available
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Old 06-04-2020, 07:24 AM
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Rock 6 makes much sense
Panties get twisted when men buy guns for their wives when the PC party line is let the wife choose.
I do not think it matters if the trigger is pulled and practice ensues

Most people, men and women go through a few itetations and settle on a gun they like in the fullness of time
They migrate to a diffrrent gun.

More experience means change in many cases. I say do not get bollixed-up. Get something and start shooting it. That is most important. Only then will you have base experience with which to keep the starter gun or pick something else. Pretty simple deal, and not brand or model dependent.
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtr100 View Post
if they husband applies the algorithm likely it will turn out ok - if not well it might work out it might not.

I'm surprised and pleasantly so that I haven't gotten push back on the EZ - for those with diminished hand strength or grip they're clearly the choice.

Also pleasantly surprised the wheel gun gang has been quiet. I like revolvers but they're the absolute worst choice for beginners
This whole thread shows that you dont know much about guns, and even less about marraige.
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
This whole thread shows that you dont know much about guns, and even less about marraige.

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Old 06-04-2020, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
This whole thread shows that you dont know much about guns, and even less about marraige.
no I know quite a lot i've spend hundreds of hours over the last decade or so teaching everthing from boys scout to grumpy old men

my algorithm is not meant for 'us' the people that are gun hobbyist or gun professionals at some level it's for the very large population of complete new users. Folks that know nothing about fire arms and will get at most a one day training, most of which is babbling about stuff that doesn't much matter , and more likely just a quick familiarization. If they go to a square range once a year to shoot a box of ammo that will be a lot. These people are not 'us'

It does however ignore the folks that will decide they don't like something, though the firearms listed are plain vanilla as can be an anyone can find one they can shoot them well enough for defensive purposes

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Old 06-08-2020, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtr100 View Post
This is an algorithm of sorts and assumes a shooter has no idea what they want.

1. Shooter has diminished hand / grip strength and is recoil averse
SW Shield EZ 380 - no thumb safety

2. Shooter has diminished hand / grip strength but can tolerate 9 mm recoil
SW Shield EZ 9 mm - no thumb safety

3. Shooter can afford a Glock 19 and has hands that can properly grip Glock 19
Glock 19

4. Shooter can afford a Glock 19 but has hands that can NOT properly grip Glock 19
Glock 48

5. Shooter can't afford Glock 19 but can afford SW Shield
SW Shield - no thumb safety

6. Shooter can't afford SW Shield
Taurus G3 or G2S

7. Shooter can't afford as Taurus - they have more pressing issues in their life than buying a firearm


Before you all get the vapors think about it a minute and admit I'm right. A shooter with no
idea about firearms will not know something may 'fit them' better than one of the firearms
listed so will not worry about it an will be able to shoot it just fine if they train with
it once in a while, which most will not.

The Shield EZ is without a doubt the firearm for those with reduced grip and hand strenght.

If someone can afford a Glock as get enough experience to decide something might be 'better' for
then, very unlikely but possible. They can get darn near all their money back from a Glock.

The shield at $350 or even $300 is an amazing thing.

The new Tarus are night and day better than some of the past offerings, seems somebody read a book
on quality control.

Sad fact of things is if a person can't afford a Taurus they have other things in their life
that are more pressing than buying a firearm.

Thank me
I generally agree with this.


A couple years ago, a friend of mine from the base in Africa, messaged me through facebook and asked me a to recommend him a handgun. He and his friends had been seeing BLM protesters blocking roadways and pulling folks out of their open air Jeeps.

I told him to get a Glock 19 and learn how to use it safely

The Glock is easily #1 most commonly used in law enforcement, #2 being a tie between the S&W M&P and Sig P22x series.

Glock is easily the most common handgun in the world for military and law enforcement.

The Shield EZ is too new for me to recommend. It may be perfect for someone with poor hand strength.

Taurus G2 - good gun for poor people. In my opinion, they would be better off buying a used Glock, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, etc etc etc. But Taurus G2's are for sale just about everywhere and quality has improved.
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Old 06-08-2020, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
This is some of the worst advice I have seen on this board, and I have a Glock gathering dust in my safe to prove this.

My wife is exactly the kind of person your pretend to offer advise. Slight build, very limited hand strength.
She has enough experience to safely handle a Browning Buckmark, but she avoids any gun with significant recoil.

She picked out the Glock herself, based on the light wt. Unfortunately, the light wt combined with her weak hand strength, and the terrible grip design, equals poor accuracy and stovepipe jamming. The gun does not jam at all in my hands, then again, I can palm a basketball, and crush pecan nuts in my XXL farmer hands.

I am not telling you not to carry Glock weapons yourself. I figure you are old enough to decide that for yourself. But I am suggesting they are an especially bad choice for new shooters with limited hand strength.

Btw, she replaced the Glock with a Ruger LC9s, which is an excellent low cost pistol in 9mm.
Did you read the same post I read? No where did it mention that a person with poor hand strength should buy a Glock.

I pocket carry a Ruger LC9S Pro - it has more recoil than my Glock 19.
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Old 06-09-2020, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by drobs View Post
Did you read the same post I read? No where did it mention that a person with poor hand strength should buy a Glock.

I pocket carry a Ruger LC9S Pro - it has more recoil than my Glock 19.
in fact poor hand strength is a contraindication to the Glock 19

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Old 06-09-2020, 03:53 PM
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I generally agree with this.
--snip--
Drobs is obviously a gentleman and a scholar
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:11 PM
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I generally agree with this.
--snip--
Drobs is obviously a gentleman and a scholar
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