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Old 06-02-2020, 01:50 AM
Madoc Madoc is offline
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Originally Posted by cannonfoddertfc View Post
You could always start your own...
As could you.
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Old 06-02-2020, 02:22 AM
hardcalibres hardcalibres is offline
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Originally Posted by GrizzlyetteAdams View Post
Hmmm... As I understand the TOS of this site (and most other forums), we as individuals have copyrights to our own content and are free to do what we want with it, including reposting it anywhere else. But, of course, we don't have the right to transfer other people's content.

By the way, Allye, a big hattip to you for being alert to this impending change. I do believe you may have saved many of us from a nasty surprise. Imagine coming to here one fine morning to see the doors shut with no warning.
I recall most of the fiction authors that previously posted here saying they were not going to do so anymore because the TOS had changed and the site owners claimed ownership of the IP rights of posted material - was that not the case?
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Old 06-02-2020, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by allye View Post
It's the loss of information compiled here rather than loss of the forum itself that worries me. But as I said above, saving useful info offline is an important part of preparedness. I've gotten lax about that so this sale is a much needed good reminder.
When I created a neural interface with the computer (to shut down the Argus array), my mind merged with it to expand my consciousness.

Not sure if that helps or not.



Little did I know you can buy a neural interface at tableclothfactory.

https://tableclothsfactory.com/produ...BoCzEwQAvD_BwE
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
I recall most of the fiction authors that previously posted here saying they were not going to do so anymore because the TOS had changed and the site owners claimed ownership of the IP rights of posted material - was that not the case?
Pretty much, yup.
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
Indeed - we can only hope.

It would be good to take the opportunity to refocus this forum on it's name plate subject.

The politics could be completely contained in the freespeech site (and enforced as such).



It is more likely to be subject to who owns the IP for the current archives here. If an agreement on that can be struck (to transfer it to a new site) then OK. But in the absence of that, VS and their new owners would retain ownership of the archives from here.

The loss of all that would be a tragedy of significant proportions.

It would mean that anyone going over to the new site would be starting from scratch in building a reserve of survivalism information/knowledge.

That could happen if the people here with that knowledge in their heads were prepared to participate in the new site and type it all out again - but that would be dependent upon them thinking the new site was really about survivalism and not just a front for a site about other stuff.
It would actually be kinda nice to redo everything, we could leave out the trolling and arguing and get back to the really useful stuff... lots of typing though.. not fun when your dyslexic
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:11 AM
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As much a people hate certain sub-forums, the popularity of such might make sense unless you want a moribund forum
Politics, as an example, have a great effect on one's ability to survive
Carving out from the whole leaves huge, gaping holes
You can stick you head up.....in the sand
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:31 AM
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I will agree that this site 'houses' a great deal of excellent information. But everyone has to admit there is also power and refreshed activity when the room is gutted, cleaned and rebuilt.

I am concerned the new owners might use their ownership to further identify us. At the stroke of a button, our real names, location, email addresses, etc could be leaked. Or.... handled over to Soros organizations. I suppose that is the risk we always take when participating in an online forum.

......
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:48 AM
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Hope the forum doesn't disappear, I just found it!
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:23 AM
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Exclamation CAW!

Welp, ya'll could/should go join the hagz~n~fagz forum.....

Ya can get your fill of peas~n~carrots and cookies......
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
I recall most of the fiction authors that previously posted here saying they were not going to do so anymore because the TOS had changed and the site owners claimed ownership of the IP rights of posted material - was that not the case?

I was referring to the TOS rolled out by the owners, Vertical Scope. It is worded differently than the one Kev had, but it's still pretty standard stuff. At that time, I was also thinking that many of the members may have misunderstood some of the wording and got weirded out by it.

Here is a post I made in the Book subforum a couple of years ago about it:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyetteAdams View Post
After reading through many of the threads here about some concerns about the TOS, I went to VerticalScope’s website to see their TOS for myself (http://www.verticalscope.com/aboutus...listboards.com), and to do my own personal research. I am still sifting through it but so far, the TOS seems pretty standard as compared to most Out There.

For reasons that follow, I feel comfortable posting here, but just as with ANY message board or website that I don’t own, etc. I won’t post any of my literary works in its entirety such as whole books, essays, etc. I may consider posting excerpts with a link to a website or to where where my book is sold (Amazon.com, etc.).


For the benefit of those who are uncomfortable with the TOS, I hope you don't mind if I share with you what I have summarized so far...

By the way, I will also include some of my personal notes and comments that I made to myself.

I am somewhat familiar with some of the TOS lingo, but because I am not a lawyer, I Googled to confirm the terminology of some of what I was translating. I will first offer a summary of what I picked apart, then show you the parts of the contract that I dissected so far.

To summarize:

When I post here, I still own my material (retain copyright), and by legal definition of "non-exclusive," I am free to grant a non-exclusive license to several users simultaneously. This also means I can re-post my own content anywhere else I please. I can also publish my own postings in any format I desire, including a self-published book if I wanted to.

Because VerticalScope has non-exclusive rights, this also gives them the liberty to sell their own site, and/or all of its contents, if they wanted to. No owner of this site will be “stuck” with an Albatross if it came to that, lol.

In the (probably unlikely) event VerticalScope decides to publish and sell a book or some sort of compilation of stuff from the site, the TOS grants them the freedom to modify our posts. I have no problem with that either, or else they would not have the right to edit, clean up grammar, or shorten it for brevity, etc.

Note to self: “probably unlikely”...because it seems that their business model appears to be more about ad revenue than spending a bunch of money cleaning up our stuff and marketing it to a limited audience.

However, because they have non-exclusive rights, this also means that individual posters would not be financially compensated. This is not unheard of or unethical, and is quite common. Writers for certain magazines such as Countryside Magazine and Backwoodsman are not paid, yet both magazines are published at a profit. (I think both of them also publish and sell compilations of their magazines as well.)

On the other hand, I WOULD have a problem with the TOS if terms were of an "exclusive" nature, which would give them total ownership of my content. And that is NOT the case here.




OK, here is my “picked apart” pieces of the TOS. I bolded the parts that I wanted to comment on, and the underlined portions in parenthesis are my “translations” from Legalese to English.

The pieces came from the TOS at this link:

http://www.verticalscope.com/aboutus...listboards.com



Preservation of Intellectual Property Rights

All material on this site, including, but not limited to images, illustrations and multimedia materials, is protected by copyrights which are owned and controlled by SURVIVALISTBOARDS.COM or by other parties that have licensed their material to SURVIVALISTBOARDS.COM. (This means me and you. We own our content which is also copyrighted upon creation, and we are granting them the right to use it.)

Material from this Web Site or from any other web site owned, operated, licensed or controlled by VerticalScope Inc. may not be copied, reproduced, republished, uploaded, posted, transmitted, or distributed in any way.

Modification of the materials or use of the materials for any other purpose is a violation of the copyrights and other proprietary rights held by the respective providers thereof. The use of any such material on any other web site, ftp server or network environment is prohibited.

(I don’t want all or part of my stuff reposted by Tom, **** and Harry either. To me, this is fair enough. As a reminder that we are the owner of our content, see the legal definition of “non-exclusive” in the summary)

------snip------

You agree to grant to SURVIVALISTBOARDS.COM a non exclusive, (see the summary above), royalty free, (I’m not gonna get paid for posting my content, lol), worldwide, (it’s the on the Internet), irrevocable, (A deal is a deal, can’t cancel it), perpetual (without limit to time) license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, sublicense, create derivative works of, publicly display, publish and perform any materials and other information you submit to any public areas, chat rooms, bulletin boards, newsgroups or forums of SURVIVALISTBOARDS.COM or which you provide by email or any other means to SURVIVALISTBOARDS.COM and in any media now known or hereafter developed. (VerticalScope *could* actually decide to publish a compilation of information, stories, etc.--along with the name you have provided with your content--see below) Further, you grant to SURVIVALISTBOARDS.COM the right to use your name and or user name in connection with the submitted materials and other information as well as in connection with all advertising, marketing and promotional material related thereto, together with use on any other VerticalScope Inc. web sites. ( I would have no problem if they did such a thing.)


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Old 06-02-2020, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post



It is more likely to be subject to who owns the IP for the current archives here. If an agreement on that can be struck (to transfer it to a new site) then OK. But in the absence of that, VS and their new owners would retain ownership of the archives from here.

The loss of all that would be a tragedy of significant proportions.

It would mean that anyone going over to the new site would be starting from scratch in building a reserve of survivalism information/knowledge.

That could happen if the people here with that knowledge in their heads were prepared to participate in the new site and type it all out again - but that would be dependent upon them thinking the new site was really about survivalism and not just a front for a site about other stuff.
Very much my concerns. Losing this site, putting in effort to reconstruct at another only to lose that one as well.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by n1d View Post
Welp, ya'll could/should go join the hagz~n~fagz forum.....

There are some great folks there but G's paranoia has hindered their growth. Don't see that changing...
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allye View Post
Very much my concerns. Losing this site, putting in effort to reconstruct at another only to lose that one as well.
I've seen this happen many times to fine grand forums over the past couple of decades. Enormous amounts of valuable material (many years worth of forum gold) going *poof* at the click of a button...

It's the nature of the beast, and not much we can do about it except roll with it.
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by n1d View Post
Welp, ya'll could/should go join the hagz~n~fagz forum.....

Ya can get your fill of peas~n~carrots and cookies......
LOL, took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allye View Post
If you sold this one, you could sell another. I'd love to find a place that I don't feel insecure about that happening again. Especially these days when we need continuity as the world becomes more and more unstable.
Of course he will.

The man is smart to make money off all of us. I've thought about it, but won't for the same reason I got out the gun industry.

I don't want something I enjoy to turn into work.

You notice how Kev occasionally comes up with something "he should of known better than to say".... This is work to him.

It works out, we get to play, he profits.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Of course he will.

The man is smart to make money off all of us. I've thought about it, but won't for the same reason I got out the gun industry.

I don't want something I enjoy to turn into work.

You notice how Kev occasionally comes up with something "he should of known better than to say".... This is work to him.

It works out, we get to play, he profits.
Honestly have never read his stuff closely enough to notice. And I've thought about it too to the point of shelling out some attorney fees, but work or play has no bearing on my thinking. This isn't my "fun place" except for the occasional happy surprise. It's a resource. Hence the concern. Profit doesn't enter in either; I don't need the money and would actually foot a good portion of the bill to have a stable resource.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:55 PM
Rural Buckeye Guy Rural Buckeye Guy is offline
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Eh.....somehow we will all survive.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:11 PM
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In another thread the user notabot posted a backup site he just started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notabot View Post
So it is: survivalist.city

Looks slick but completely devoid of any content.
I didn't join it yet but I did earmark/favorites it so I can meet up over there if I have to.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by n1d View Post
Welp, ya'll could/should go join the hagz~n~fagz forum.....

Ya can get your fill of peas~n~carrots and cookies......
Lol, this reference must be something from before my time here.

But you did mention cookies so now I'm kinda interested.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Cornly2 View Post
Lol, this reference must be something from before my time here.

But you did mention cookies so now I'm kinda interested.
There was a dust up a couple yrs ago.

2 moderators left and formed a new website. Mels thinking it over and Grevlin.
Her tagline was Peas and carrots. Not sure about the cookies part.
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