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Old 10-15-2019, 11:34 AM
lasers lasers is offline
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Letting them all free is one extreme, getting rid of them is the opposite extreme.

I assume there is a lot of middle ground, you could free the best get rid of the worst and those in between can be held on to.

Keeping a person locked up when food and resources are scarce is extremely expensive (part of the reason the death penalty used to be more common). Expensive, as in, it requires, food, and time, and resources to keep them locked up. In order to keep someone locked up it would almost be a requirement that they produce something of value to those keeping them fed. Most likely that thing of value would be hard work.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:46 AM
goat daddy goat daddy is offline
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prisoners have demonstrated they will not follow the rules of society. In a time of chaos that would be really bad. Best just to leave them in their cells. If they get out, treat them like any other mad dog. the last thing I need to worry about is protecting my stuff from experienced thieves.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:36 PM
Arch Stanton Arch Stanton is offline
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Originally Posted by goat daddy View Post
prisoners have demonstrated they will not follow the rules of society. In a time of chaos that would be really bad. Best just to leave them in their cells. If they get out, treat them like any other mad dog. the last thing I need to worry about is protecting my stuff from experienced thieves.
Most people are in jail or prison due to petty crimes like fraudulent check writing or smoking pot. I’m not sure what TV shows you are watching but most prisons are not Supermax for violent offenders. Intentionally starving them to death is equivalent to murder.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:42 PM
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Most people are in jail or prison due to petty crimes like fraudulent check writing or smoking pot. Im not sure what TV shows you are watching but most prisons are not Supermax for violent offenders. Intentionally starving them to death is equivalent to murder.
I read this thread to be felons in prison. Felons are not petty criminals. I remember reading their wrap sheets when I worked in disability. Men sent to pelican bay for rape, while in prison. killers, thieves and what ever. I don't want them roaming the streets in times of chaos.
Sorry but if petty druggies get locked in with them, just remember they failed to obey the law.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:29 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
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"But for the Grace of God, there go I."

Likely not a whole lot of people have known and dealt with felons on a day to day basis. A lot of baseless fear, on a moderate risk. What lands someone in jail, and the reasons for it are as varied as all humanity itself. If I were to shoot and kill one that stepped into my yard as a precaution, it would make me even worse than the majority of them.

Met, worked with, and knew guys that turned out to be killers, and in one case, though he did time, it may have been justified. And you would have never known about it unless it came out in some way. One guy, you would have never thought he was capable of such a thing.

Had a fight in Montana State Penitentiary, as part of a program that was run, in the high security area. And granted, they had to be good, but they were on their best behavior. Personable, friendly, and we even ate with them.

Some guys have real changes, too. There is a very high rate of recidivism; somewhere around 75% every few years come back to high security according to the guards. But a few straighten out. Had my truck spin a bearing (suspected) when I took an alternate route that brought me through a reserve. Probably not the "best" reserve for that to happen on either. Long story short, the guy that assisted me, told me to pull the starter on his truck (when I suspected that my broken starter caused a fly wheel, or torque converter bolt to back out), and offered hospitality to the late hours was a native guy with a tear drop tattoo. Heck of a nice guy; offered food, made coffee, handed me tools, moved trucks around, and treated me like family, and didn't even want to accept some money for all the time and trouble.

I'm sure that he a totally different guy a few years back, but I'll say without reservation that I'd trust him a heck of a lot more than many of the fine, law abiding, never been in trouble guys on here.

Worked with a number of guys that did time, also. They were very decent guys and I got along with them. A couple of the best people in my life have had a checkered past, but would give the shirts off their backs.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:52 PM
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Most people are in jail or prison due to petty crimes like fraudulent check writing or smoking pot.
Absolutely incorrect. Wrong and intentionally misleading. Facts matter!!!!!!!!

That's a BULL S talking point of leftist ideologues. Don't parrot the BS.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:31 PM
PurpleKitty PurpleKitty is offline
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Agreed, most in prison are very bad guys. Some are master manipulators who can convince you the sky is purple.

One of my FB friends has a thing for white guy drug addict tattooed types. They have all proven to be liars and thieves. Her big thing is to get matching tats with whatever man she is sleeping with "to remember him by". She has been with 3 guys in the few years I have known her. One was in and out of prison, and when he got off went and shacked up with her neighbor for a while, then came crawling back, etc. Lots of drama for those who want it. She is also big into drinking, drug use herself but never caught.

My brother committed a murder and did his time for it. He is now a productive citizen but he would be THE FIRST to tell you to put them down if they get out of prison.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:53 PM
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Easy now.... There may be some felons, on this board, that might be 'good ole boys'. They might help others and they might fight furiously for a free America.


.........
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:22 PM
IC_Rafe IC_Rafe is offline
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Originally Posted by goat daddy View Post
I read this thread to be felons in prison. Felons are not petty criminals. I remember reading their wrap sheets when I worked in disability. Men sent to pelican bay for rape, while in prison. killers, thieves and what ever. I don't want them roaming the streets in times of chaos.
Sorry but if petty druggies get locked in with them, just remember they failed to obey the law.
So, someone who has a gun but isn't allowed to have one and got caught, is the same as a rapist, killer, thief, whatever? It depends a lot on the laws which are being enforced, who ends up in prison. Damn all those drunkies in the 20's, should have better killed all those who drank booze!
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
I don't think the "abandon them to starve" option, would be a realistic outcome. I'm sure the abandoning could happen, but the only thing keeping inmates in a prison, are the guards and constant supervision and searches. Take the guards out of the equation, and the inmates will be free within 24 hours i'm sure.

So unless they are all killed systematically, they'll be out there, and not in "orange jumpsuits" like most people think. Many inmates do have normal clothes they are allowed to wear, depending on the severity of the institution. Though i'd suspect most would pretty quickly swap clothes too.
That would probably happen a lot. However, I dont think it would be that uncommon for guards who are aware of major outside problems to just leave the cells locked at night and leave. Especially in max security prisons. Low security... meh. Who cares? Those guys are more likely to try to swindle me than commit armed robbery.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:45 PM
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SSS.

Ten characters added.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:35 AM
PurpleKitty PurpleKitty is offline
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John, are you the one who was afraid to testify in the criminal case? If so then I'm really NOT taking your advice. I actually asked to testify but they wouldn't let me do it in one case. Long story.

Any poster here knows I cannot own a gun so it is all theoretical. I am sure my FB friend Amy would like to come over sometime, etc. but I would not do that due to her drug use, duggie felon boyfriend, etc. The last thing I need is a "friend" taking what little we have to get a fix. Her exes have all been addicts and thieves, she definitely has a "type".

And I don't play those games. There is a very high rate of return to criminal acts, it is all they know. I am not saying some might be helped with a program but I would not want a felon coming out to repair my cat cage, for instance.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:39 AM
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Shoot, shovel, shut up.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
So, someone who has a gun but isn't allowed to have one and got caught, is the same as a rapist, killer, thief, whatever? It depends a lot on the laws which are being enforced, who ends up in prison. Damn all those drunkies in the 20's, should have better killed all those who drank booze!
https://slate.com/technology/2010/02...ohibition.html

Should have? The Feds poisoned over 10 thousand people to death during Prohibition by secretly tainting found booze.

They poisoned Mexican pot with paraquat in the 70's, a known neurological poison that kills and is linked to Parkinson's Disease.

They poison most script opioids with Tylenol to ensure abusers risk liver disease.

The US government has no qualms about poisoning you to death if you want to get high on something they haven't approved.


Wardens in jails and prisons have mostly resolved what they will do. They get to see the jackets on the cons. They will pick and choose those they think are harmless enough to release, leave most of the rest to starve, and single out the select few for immediate kill that they don't dare let get lose. Will the process be fair like a jury trial? No. But the process will be effective enough. They won't be shooting the pot heads, drunks, and check kiters. They will likely issue rations to those they leave locked in and try to send word to governors' offices. On the flip side they will have some idea of the truly violent ones locked up for lesser crimes this time around. Someone like Al Capone in for tax evasion will get a bullet. Perverts will find diddling kids is no longer a 5yr stint and suddenly a capital offense.

Anyone who has ever been a warden or guard captain has considered this scenario and constantly updates a mental list on how to triage this. They know that the surrounding area is filled with prison staff and their families.

The idea may be new to readers here, but not to wardens. They aren't looking for advice from SB members either.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:14 AM
Arch Stanton Arch Stanton is offline
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Originally Posted by goat daddy View Post
I read this thread to be felons in prison. Felons are not petty criminals. I remember reading their wrap sheets when I worked in disability. Men sent to pelican bay for rape, while in prison. killers, thieves and what ever. I don't want them roaming the streets in times of chaos.
Sorry but if petty druggies get locked in with them, just remember they failed to obey the law.
I agree the op was a little confusing as he mentions jails and county lockups which for the most part would not include felons like we are discussing. I am assuming if prisons are abandoned, all prisons would be abandoned, even for the lowest of offenses as whatever policy would be enacted would encompass all of them (I assume).

You say you are sorry if druggies get locked up but for me to remember that they failed to obey the law. Have you ever exceeded the speed limit? If the govt came to your house today and said tell us about every gun you own, would you do it, even if it was lawful for them to do so? If you drank alcohol in the 20s, you were breaking the law. If you exceed the speed limit, you are breaking the law. Some laws are just and some are unjust, some are minor infractions but we can't just use a blanket statement that they all deserve abandoment and starvation because they all "broke the law."
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:23 AM
IC_Rafe IC_Rafe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
https://slate.com/technology/2010/02...ohibition.html

Should have? The Feds poisoned over 10 thousand people to death during Prohibition by secretly tainting found booze.

They poisoned Mexican pot with paraquat in the 70's, a known neurological poison that kills and is linked to Parkinson's Disease.

They poison most script opioids with Tylenol to ensure abusers risk liver disease.

The US government has no qualms about poisoning you to death if you want to get high on something they haven't approved.


Wardens in jails and prisons have mostly resolved what they will do. They get to see the jackets on the cons. They will pick and choose those they think are harmless enough to release, leave most of the rest to starve, and single out the select few for immediate kill that they don't dare let get lose. Will the process be fair like a jury trial? No. But the process will be effective enough. They won't be shooting the pot heads, drunks, and check kiters. They will likely issue rations to those they leave locked in and try to send word to governors' offices. On the flip side they will have some idea of the truly violent ones locked up for lesser crimes this time around. Someone like Al Capone in for tax evasion will get a bullet. Perverts will find diddling kids is no longer a 5yr stint and suddenly a capital offense.

Anyone who has ever been a warden or guard captain has considered this scenario and constantly updates a mental list on how to triage this. They know that the surrounding area is filled with prison staff and their families.

The idea may be new to readers here, but not to wardens.
Again, they won't "leave them to starve", the moment the guards leave, the prison is useless. They'll leave them, but they'll be out within the hour. Contrary to what some people think, the walls of the prison are not what keeps them inside. It's the guards with guns and rigorous security checks which keep them inside.

About the spiking of drugs or booze. Sure, but that's a completely different thing than: you're caught with booze or drugs: here's an official death sentence given by the court after a trial. Didn't say they don't try some ****ty stuff. Maybe i should have specified: all those arrested should be put to death? Would that have made my point and irony and sarcasm clearer? If the law is that strong and clear for Goat Daddy that "if you're in prison, you broke the law, too bad, you die". No matter the circumstances or reason you're in prison...

Edit: and since you edited this in at the end:
Quote:
They aren't looking for advice from SB members either.
Ok, that's it, stop discussing it, it's useless, they aren't waiting for our advice. Better say that in every topic in the political section also, or in every topic then, cause noone is looking for advice from SB members on most topics . Seriously, why did you need to add that?
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:26 AM
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Folks, please remember that the .gov has been systematically making more and more non violent crimes into felonies. I believe the gist of this thread is for the felons of say 50+ years ago when you only were charged for a felony when you were a real violent and dangerous criminal; not say someone who happened to drink and drive without a valid driver's license.

And I hope I don't have to tell you why the .gov has been doing this. . . .
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:25 PM
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Again, they won't "leave them to starve", the moment the guards leave, the prison is useless. They'll leave them, but they'll be out within the hour. Contrary to what some people think, the walls of the prison are not what keeps them inside. It's the guards with guns and rigorous security checks which keep them inside.

About the spiking of drugs or booze. Sure, but that's a completely different thing than: you're caught with booze or drugs: here's an official death sentence given by the court after a trial. Didn't say they don't try some ****ty stuff. Maybe i should have specified: all those arrested should be put to death? Would that have made my point and irony and sarcasm clearer? If the law is that strong and clear for Goat Daddy that "if you're in prison, you broke the law, too bad, you die". No matter the circumstances or reason you're in prison...

We don't build Euro prisons here. Guards can't deal with prisoners unless they have a numerical advantage. Since there are always a lot more cons than guards then how do you suppose they give the guards numerical advantages? They put the rats in a maze behind multiple layers of steel that defaults to locked status in a power failure. Ever seen the inside of a Supermax? If the guards walk out then all the cons would die in those from starvation. Cons have been testing systems for years and the prisons keep watching.

Prisons are an American expertise. 2.5 million behind bars. A quarter of all prisoners in the world.

Those checks you think are important are only because the cons get to move around to different areas during the day where they can access tools and scrap to use to break out. In a final lockdown the cons will be segregated, stripped, and transferred away from their cells and stashes. They will be left with a jumpsuit, a box of rations, metal or concrete walls, and a cement floor.

Thinking cons can be "out within an hour" is eye popping naive. And you can be sure that wardens are going to err on the side of caution about who they shoot. The ones locked in and left to starve will be robbery and assault types that don't have a homicide arrest in their jacket. Everyone in for murder is going to be stacked like cord wood. Everyone in for violent sex crimes or human trafficking will meet the bullet too. Everyone in for a lesser beef that has a history of murder or violent sex crime is toast too. Same goes for drug dealing if they are listed as known to be part of a cartel outfit. In the worst state pens the body count could be well over half. There will have been a lot of final solutions long before the remainder even get a first crack at those bars. A quarter will likely be let free right off the bat, so the guards will have only a quarter left on the fence about. Just stuff the solitary units to capacity, throw in some cases of MREs and call it a job done once they call the governor. The lesser pens have a lot less nasties. The county jails still have the sheriff deputies as backup.


Quote:
Edit: and since you edited this in at the end: Ok, that's it, stop discussing it, it's useless, they aren't waiting for our advice. Better say that in every topic in the political section also, or in every topic then, cause noone is looking for advice from SB members on most topics . Seriously, why did you need to add that?
When I said that that debating how the cons are treated is pointless, I meant it. No one outside is getting a say in the matter. Talk all you want about what to do about cons on the loose but talking about what the wardens will be doing is laughable. No one will get a voice in who stays, who is let go, or who gets shot, except the warden and his guard captain. Most of the senior state pens will be little more than fly magnets by the time the guards file out.
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Old 10-17-2019, 09:04 PM
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I don't think there is a cut and dry answer to this question. I don't know what the prison will do, lock down, or release. Releasing seems a little far fetched. I mean are you going to let loose the Ted Bundy's, or Ted Kazinski's? Maybe they'll let minor drug offense prisoners out, but who knows? Too many variables. Me, I'll take care of me and mine. If that means shooting to kill, then so be it, I've already put myself in that mindset when I got my CPL.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:32 PM
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THERE are mutli THOUSANDS of prisoners in low security camps across the USA
both state and fed, where the only security may be a wire fence, no guard towers, no roving patrols, no lockdown. Basically the ONLY thing keeping the prisoner in them is their desire to get their sentence over with and get on with their lives. IF TEOTW came tonight, they would be able to walk away with no one giving them permission or unlocking a door.

Whether or not the gates of the barred places are thrown open is minimal compared to the ones who can leave any time BUT THEY DO NOT.

A lot of those folks do not want to have that experience again and they do change. There is always talk about a second chance. Some states, such as Michigan even restore firearms and voting rights automatically for felons if they were non violent and not drug related after 5 years of satisfactory living after end of sentence.

Just saying "if they have a record kill em" is a rather narrow view of humanity.
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