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Old 07-20-2019, 12:55 AM
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I spent a couple of nights in the BOQ at Ramey AFB Puerto Rico when a C-124 I was riding in lost an engine. I awoke to a swishy zingy sound, it wasn't until he came into my view that I realized it was a Puerto Rican man trimming the sculpted hedge with a machete. It was apparently very sharp and he was skilled at using it.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:45 PM
Gaston444 Gaston444 is offline
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This is a common fantasy of some blade fans, and its totally false. History will bear that out. Once mankind knows how to make something, its here to stay. Blackpowder is easy to make and was made very often on the American frontier. If you have three ingredients you have it. Charcoal, saltpeter and surfer.
I don't think the "culture" is there for that kind of revival, not to mention the overwhelming majority of the existing firearms don't work that way... It really would take decades of utter breakdown for that to happen. Also, the knowledge for round reloading, and the small machines for it, are both fairly widespread.

Note I never questioned the usefulness of guns in the case of a breakdown, even blackpowder guns, just the ubiquity of their use in out of home self-defense.

One of the features of real-life disasters that I noted is a much tighter clampdown, by authorities, over people's freedom of movement. Widespread looting is one of the first things any authority, of any kind, is concerned with, and stop and searches will then be done without the usual legal restrictions... Remote rural areas will be different, but how many of us live in those?

As with widespread power outages, remote areas will be the last to be fixed or get any supplies, so, in a way, for the truly long term, these will be MORE vulnerable, not less... Remote small towns, with no electrified railroad link, will be the absolute worst hit by shortages of fuel...



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Originally Posted by cbl51 View Post
The problem is, most gun people have massive amounts of ammo stored away. I'm not even a die hard gun nut, but I've got in excess of 10,000 rounds for each of my calibers on hand. Some people have lots more. Some people have a lot of muzzle loaders that will be easy to keep fed. All the broken down abandoned cars will have lot os wheel weights to be melted own into bullets. Center fire cases can be reloaded many times.
But can the woods really feed all these gun owners?

My guess is survival will have a lot to do with waiting in line, for food distributed from far away.

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But even with no guns, other weapons will nullify the over hyped sword. At the battle Agincourt the rag tag little English army barely had 8,000 half staved men, while the French had many times that number of well equipted knights and heavy infantry. The French had their asses handed to them by the English army that was mostly archers. The French made the mistake bringing swords to a projectile fight.
I don't disagree about the swords, but the French were entirely defeated by the terrain, which had turned into mud from severe rain the night before, something that happened in several key French defeats, including Waterloo... The French Knights were protected from iron-tipped arrows by first-rate steel armor, and I don't buy for a minute that steel arrow tips were so common at that time...

To be fair to the English, they used the terrain to their advantage absolutely beautifully, an advantage which the French could easily have negated or reduced, while the French army was an uncontrollable mosaic of individually experienced knights. The way the arrows did damage was to hurt the ill-conceived French cavalry charge (whose hooves, incidently, had made a total mess of the wet ground), a few of these wounded horses then turning back, riderless or not, to make a mess of the overly packed French lines...

Many French Knights drowned in mud, in their undefeated armor, without a scratch on them: The narrowness of the terrain created a stampede in deep mud, and the uninformed and uncommanded rear kept pushing on... This army essentially defeated itself.

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Hollywood has done much to romanticize the sword thing,
Not even Hollywood does that much with it in doomsday scenarios, mind you... The problem with the sword is that it cannot be concealed, and its utility does not match its bulk.



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Originally Posted by cbl51 View Post

I thinking any post apocalyptic setting, there will still be settlements and training posts, and somebody will be making black powder and guns, just like on the frontier. It may be nice now to stock upon a few good muzzle loading rifles and pistols, and learn some martial arts that teach stick fighting. Theres no shortage of ash, hickory, oak, and hornbeam.

Black powder guns, cross bows, long bows, all will be locally made items again.
It would take a long time to get there... A total lack of oil for decades might do it, but coal and electricity would still prop things up I would think.

A trip to Detroit would be most enlightening as to what the future may hold...

Gaston
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaston444 View Post
I don't think the "culture" is there for that kind of revival, not to mention the overwhelming majority of the existing firearms don't work that way... It really would take decades of utter breakdown for that to happen. Also, the knowledge for round reloading, and the small machines for it, are both fairly widespread.

Note I never questioned the usefulness of guns in the case of a breakdown, even blackpowder guns, just the ubiquity of their use in out of home self-defense.

One of the features of real-life disasters that I noted is a much tighter clampdown, by authorities, over people's freedom of movement. Widespread looting is one of the first things any authority, of any kind, is concerned with, and stop and searches will then be done without the usual legal restrictions... Remote rural areas will be different, but how many of us live in those?

As with widespread power outages, remote areas will be the last to be fixed or get any supplies, so, in a way, for the truly long term, these will be MORE vulnerable, not less... Remote small towns, with no electrified railroad link, will be the absolute worst hit by shortages of fuel...





But can the woods really feed all these gun owners?

My guess is survival will have a lot to do with waiting in line, for food distributed from far away.



I don't disagree about the swords, but the French were entirely defeated by the terrain, which had turned into mud from severe rain the night before, something that happened in several key French defeats, including Waterloo... The French Knights were protected from iron-tipped arrows by first-rate steel armor, and I don't buy for a minute that steel arrow tips were so common at that time...

To be fair to the English, they used the terrain to their advantage absolutely beautifully, an advantage which the French could easily have negated or reduced, while the French army was an uncontrollable mosaic of individually experienced knights. The way the arrows did damage was to hurt the ill-conceived French cavalry charge (whose hooves, incidently, had made a total mess of the wet ground), a few of these wounded horses then turning back, riderless or not, to make a mess of the overly packed French lines...

Many French Knights drowned in mud, in their undefeated armor, without a scratch on them: The narrowness of the terrain created a stampede in deep mud, and the uninformed and uncommanded rear kept pushing on... This army essentially defeated itself.



Not even Hollywood does that much with it in doomsday scenarios, mind you... The problem with the sword is that it cannot be concealed, and its utility does not match its bulk.





It would take a long time to get there... A total lack of oil for decades might do it, but coal and electricity would still prop things up I would think.

A trip to Detroit would be most enlightening as to what the future may hold...

Gaston
Gastradamus at his best!

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Old 07-24-2019, 09:31 PM
cbl51 cbl51 is offline
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Gastradamus at his best!

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He never gives up spewing his nonsense. I can only guess he thinks someone, somewhere, is going to believe that stuff he spouts.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
In a post apocalyptic world if ammo is hard to find/make swords will be the weapon of the day for the common man.
If a person is not healthy, trained and practiced he won't make it.
Check out the early version of the movie "Scaramouch" a young man learning to fence in order the get revenge on his friends murder. Excellent sword play.
My son and I took fencing for a while , it's fun and challenging .a good foundation for sword fighting .
In a knife fight NO ONE comes out unscathed .
It's probable that the weapon of choice i.e. what's more easily available will be a thrusting spear. Much simpler for the average guy to make/acquire/use than a sword IMO...
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Old 09-25-2019, 08:36 AM
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For TEOTWAWKI I’d want a decent machete over a knife, if I had to choose just one. A good machete will do everything a knife can and so much more. I’d probably choose a panga or a bolo style as they are better choppers than a Latin machete, and yet still light enough to swing around for a few hours clearing away foliage if need be. For shelter building and general chopping I really like the CS jungle machete. It eats Australian hardwood with ease.

I find a machete more useful than a hatchet too, because it is impossible to clear lantana with a hatchet. If you don’t know what lantana is, it’s the spawn of Satan. Beautiful flowers, but it can choke out a trail within weeks after good rain. And it’s covered in millions of tiny little razor sharp spikes that will quite literally tear your skin off. The smaller hair like spikes will break off and lodge in your skin creating an agonising itch that will last for hours, possibly days. You want gloves, a long sleeve shirt/pants and a longer machete with a thin blade for lantana.

https://www.abc.net.au/gardening/fac...antana/9427632

And the value of a machete as a legitimate weapon is historically proven. The average person can wield a machete well enough to be a serious threat to someone willing to do them harm. Just last week an elderly man in Western Australia chased off three masked thieves that broke into his house by simply waving a machete at them as he chased them out of his home.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jash View Post
For TEOTWAWKI I’d want a decent machete over a knife, if I had to choose just one. A good machete will do everything a knife can and so much more. I’d probably choose a panga or a bolo style as they are better choppers than a Latin machete, and yet still light enough to swing around for a few hours clearing away foliage if need be. For shelter building and general chopping I really like the CS jungle machete. It eats Australian hardwood with ease.

I find a machete more useful than a hatchet too, because it is impossible to clear lantana with a hatchet. If you don’t know what lantana is, it’s the spawn of Satan. Beautiful flowers, but it can choke out a trail within weeks after good rain. And it’s covered in millions of tiny little razor sharp spikes that will quite literally tear your skin off. The smaller hair like spikes will break off and lodge in your skin creating an agonising itch that will last for hours, possibly days. You want gloves, a long sleeve shirt/pants and a longer machete with a thin blade for lantana.

https://www.abc.net.au/gardening/fac...antana/9427632

And the value of a machete as a legitimate weapon is historically proven. The average person can wield a machete well enough to be a serious threat to someone willing to do them harm. Just last week an elderly man in Western Australia chased off three masked thieves that broke into his house by simply waving a machete at them as he chased them out of his home.
I've taken a couple of jungle survival classes, and the 12" machete was the most prevalent tool outside of your EDC or small fixed blade that should be on your person. Many touted it as the ultimate survival tool from arctic to jungle, even deserts (able to use it for digging). Everybody has their own opinions, but after seeing kids in the deep jungles of Ecuador use them like an extension of their hand for absolutely everything from typical cutting stuff to digging, eating utensil, cooking surface, etc...call me impressed with the versatility. I like them.



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Old 10-02-2019, 11:43 AM
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The WW2 Fairbairn–Sykes knife was specifically designed by the British for killing humans in combat. Not to saw wood, take compass bearings, trim your nails, or pick your teeth. I own one and would trust it for self defense more than any other knife I own.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:52 PM
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Knife fighting and stabbings seem to be the milieu of a prison environment, where inmates use what ever they can lay their hands on to fashion a weapon, it could be anything from the bail on a plastic bucket to a tooth brush. And by all accounts these crude weapons are quite effective.


I believe it is easy to overthink the whole thing, furthermore ordinary people, (just like inmates) are going to use what ever they can lay their hands on or is available to them. Simple as that.


Those who prepare are going to have a leg up when it comes to knives, but that doesn't mean those who didn't prepare are not going to catch up quickly in the knife department.
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