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Old 11-13-2019, 12:45 PM
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Seems the high cap magazine ban in Colorado has only served to get a few libs voted out of office and is so vague that it is essentially being ignored. Have to wonder if this or something similar is going on in other states that enact such laws.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/la...e-in-colorado/
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:53 PM
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This generation.

But the next.....
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:58 PM
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...and it should be encouraged. It's a direct litmus test of the merit of the law if the populace ignores it as a whole.

I had just moved back to CO during the recall effort. I entered the state after about 12 hours of driving- I got home, dropped off our pets and went straight to the Recall Hudak office to sign and donate. It was essentially the first thing I did when I got back.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:01 AM
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It's happening a lot in rural California with a lot of things. I would guess that about 50-75% of the state's gun owners have magazines with more than 10 rounds. I also know that only about 25% of private sales go through the "mandatory" background check and 10 day wait.

In the vehicle world, a lot of the smog laws are either ignored or stretched.

Nobody but the state enforcement agencies care to enforce these things.

I'm looking at moving to Colorado in the next couple years, so I'm curious to see where this goes.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:09 AM
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High capacity mags, see how that has crept into our vernacular? Greater than ten rounds. Not my definition of high capcity but I live with the dumbass crap in NY. BTW, most gun control laws ARE vague, intentionally.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:27 PM
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I live in a state that doesn't limit magazine capacity, it isn't even on the legislative radar. Which is nice because it negates the legalese and word wrangling that surrounds such laws.


A standard capacity magazine can hold 20-30 round if that is what the firearm is designed to use and is what is usually shipped with the fire arm to states that don't have magazine restrictions.


Anything above standard capacity would be by definition high capacity. Take the surefire magazine for example, it's an after market 60 round AR magazine that would fit the definition of high capacity.


The problem is with the terminology. High capacity is a term misused by the anti gun crowd who seem to think capacity is an arbitrary number they can adjust at a whim, usually downward. What they fail to understand, is that by using the term high capacity magazine to describe a standard capacity magazines makes them look ignorant.
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:07 PM
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A relative of mine lives in CO and told me the magazine law is not enforced. In fact, he told me you can buy a “magazine repair kit” at most gun shoppes that is nothing more than a disassembled 30-rd mag. Lol
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:08 PM
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A buddy of mine just moved to CO and I warned him about the gun laws there. Trust me, he's got a magazine or two. His response was F'em..

Sounds like he's gonna fit in there..
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Old 11-15-2019, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Seems the high cap magazine ban in Colorado has only served to get a few libs voted out of office and is so vague that it is essentially being ignored. Have to wonder if this or something similar is going on in other states that enact such laws.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/la...e-in-colorado/
I haven't bought any mags since the ban. Haven't needed to, but nothing changed. Even drum mags are still sold. LE has refused to enforce it. RMGO has pushed it to the state supreme court. 32 county sheriffs have entered a brief opposing it. Saying that civilians should model their own firearms after what LE use.

Not holding my breath. I was there for the committee hearings prior to the law passing. It was THE MOST convincing and intelligent testimony I've ever heard, but they passed it anyway. I kid you not the dem representatives joked and ate pizza while everyone else was in tears listening to a 2A advocate tell her story about being raped. One of them even said women were better off with rape whistles than firearms.

Youtube interview with the Weld County Sheriff. He's a good one.

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This generation.

But the next.....
Yep. Their strategy is attrition.
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:22 AM
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The longer the illegal edict is on the books the more legitimate it can be made to appear; if a regime ever does come to power that wants to enforce it, that regime can say these have been illegal for a long time, and we are tired of this lawlessness... The truth of course is that it is the legislative body that passed the illegal edicts that is lawless. But truth rarely seems to matter anymore.

So many people not cowering in fear of the criminal gang in the statehouse and continuing to exercise their Constitutional right to keep and bear arms is heartening, and so many law enforcement personnel siding with the patriot side is too. It suggests that there are limits to what the American people will put up with from a corrupt government. And it suggests what the next step might be, as that criminal gang posing as a legitimate government slowly but surely turns down the crank of despotism.

I moved to Arizona from Nebraska awhile back because I wanted to (among other things) get away from the punitive taxation in Nebraska and the insane gun control laws passed by the criminal gang in the statehouse there. I considered Colorado very seriously because I love the mountains there. But as I researched various places one thing I learned was that refugees from California were coming to other states and bringing their failed politics with them, and Colorado was one of the places a lot of them were going. So unless that dynamic changes, gun control there will get worse, not better.

The same thing is happening in Arizona, but Colorado seems to be ahead of us.

Liars love ambiguity because it can be used to make lying easy. The term high capacity applied to magazines is a good example of that. But even more important it's irrelevant, because no matter what the capacity is, an artificial limit on it is illegal according to the Constitution. The whole dialog about standard capacity versus high capacity, no matter how those terms are defined for the moment, is a red herring: irrelevant information brought up to confuse an issue. The truth about the issue is, no government under the authority of the United States Constitution has the legal authority to limit capacity.
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:41 AM
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The big lie at the heart of the assault weapon campaign, including limits on magazine capacity, has been proven, and is undeniably a lie. Comparing two mass murders in recent history shows just what a big lie it is:

The biggest mass murder committed with so-called assault weapons (with bump stocks giving them burst fire capability) is the massacre in Las Vegas. The perpetrator of that crime was a self-made millionaire and he had been a pilot, among other things, meaning he was an intelligent and capable man. He spent months planning his killing spree and put a lot of money into it. He ended up killing 58 people. This is the biggest mass murder committed in America with a gun.

Compare that to just one of the biggest mass murders in America: A fake refugee brought in from Cuba years earlier got kicked out of a bar in NYC called the Happy Land Social Club. He got mad, went out and bought about a dollar’s worth of gasoline, came back, threw the fuel in the door and threw in a couple of matches. He killed 87 people.

This comparison shows very clearly the insanity of disarming or downgrading the American militia supposedly to save lives. The Las Vegas murder appears to be about the upper limit of what a person can accomplish with a so-called assault weapon, and that was done by a very capable person after much planning and preparation, and it resulted in a much smaller death toll than a fool was able to rack up using about a dollar's worth of gasoline and matches.

Get rid of all guns, and those wanting to commit mass murder will be no less able. This is proven fact. Those claiming otherwise are liars, and those basing laws on such blatant lies are traitors, trying to illegally downgrade the arms the American people have a right to have.


The Glock and the Bic have much in common: a steel firing mechanism attached to a plastic handle with as much firepower as the designer can fit into the handle. Both can be very effective weapons, but the Bic is capable of a much higher death toll when used for mass murder. This shows the insanity of trying to disarm the American people to supposedly protect us from mass murder.

And another thing to remember: sometimes the most bloodthirsty mass murderers of all become rulers of nations. Or slave masters. Or both. This is why the 2nd Amendment was written, and it's why we would be wise to hold onto it, and fight for it when traitors try to take that right away.

Gun control is not an end, it's a means to an end.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:37 AM
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Compare that to just one of the biggest mass murders in America: A fake refugee brought in from Cuba years earlier got kicked out of a bar in NYC called the Happy Land Social Club. He got mad, went out and bought about a dollar’s worth of gasoline, came back, threw the fuel in the door and threw in a couple of matches. He killed 87 people.
I've never seen anyone try and compare the Happy Land murders to firearm homicides. That seemed like a stretch to me so i looked at the numbers.

Murders with fire in the United States since 2014 = 364 During that same time murders with firearms = 48k+

The social club also had one way in and out and violated virtually every single fire code for a public building. Comparing the two is a really bad analogy.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:38 AM
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I've never seen anyone try and compare the Happy Land murders to firearm homicides. That seemed like a stretch to me so i looked at the numbers.

Murders with fire in the United States since 2014 = 364 During that same time murders with firearms = 48k+

The social club also had one way in and out and violated virtually every single fire code for a public building. Comparing the two is a really bad analogy.
It's a matter of putting it in perspective, what is more dangerous a trip to the doctors office or firearm? In 2014 medical malpractice and medical error were the cause in around 400,000 deaths in the US. Third behind heart disease and cancer.

https://www.healthcareitnews.com/new...es-hit-records


Odds are your doctor will kill you long before a deranged gunman does.
Every time you drive a vehicle you roll the dice.
It's not an analogy when it compares identical results. In this instance death.


Limiting magazine capacity through legislation in a supposed effort to reduce wrongful deaths is a fools errand. Such laws accomplish nothing towards that end. The 1994 omnibus act was the litmus test for whether or not magazine bans actually worked and in 2014 it was studied and what they discovered was magazine bans didn't work. Yet there are politicians today still pushing that agenda. Why do you suppose that is?
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:40 AM
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I've never seen anyone try and compare the Happy Land murders to firearm homicides. That seemed like a stretch to me so i looked at the numbers.

Murders with fire in the United States since 2014 = 364 During that same time murders with firearms = 48k+

The social club also had one way in and out and violated virtually every single fire code for a public building. Comparing the two is a really bad analogy.
None of that makes my comparison invalid. The argument being made by anti-gun bigots is that so-called assault weapons (and so-called high-capacity magazines) give a killer a capability he would not have without them. More people being killed with guns doesn't change that. The fact is, arson has been proven to be a better weapon for mass murder than so-called assault weapons. Nothing you claimed changes that fact.

Over half of all gun deaths are suicides. People rarely use arson to kill themselves. Arson is not a good weapon for other types of crimes either. But you include all those crimes in your number. That is blatantly dishonest, and it is typical of gun control propaganda: it's all based in lies.

In order for a murder to take place the victim has to lack the ability to escape from the murderer. That's as true in mass shootings as it is when arson is used as a weapon; in fact in at least one mass murder (Virginia Tech if I remember right) the killer chained the doors shut. Fire codes can be defeated by an arsonist determined to get a big body count.

And just as fire codes can stop or alleviate death from an arsonist, there are ways to stop a mass shooter, that are not being used (or not being used enough). At the top of the list is doing away with the gun free zone insanity so there are more good guys available to stop the bad guy. But the same ones who want to disarm us of so-called assault weapons are doing everything they can to keep the good guys disarmed. That's as bad as outlawing fire codes.

The truth is, a so-called assault weapon with a so-called high capacity magazine is not the only way a person can commit mass murder, and in fact other methods have proven to be even more deadly. You claiming otherwise is easily shown to be a lie. My point is valid; you just don't want to admit it because you are here to promote the lie. Your attempt at a counter-argument is ludicrous.

I would add that a so-called assault weapon is a common mass murder weapon and arson is not, but that does not make arson an inferior weapon for that type of crime. No one knows why those killers do what they do and in the way they do it, but it looks likely that the liberal press heavily advertising mass murder is at least part of the reason, and it follows that the ones inspired by the advertising would use the type of weapon that is being advertised by the smiling liberals who talked them into doing it in the first place.

If the smiling liberals ever decide to advertise mass murder with arson like they advertise mass murder with a so-called assault weapon, we might all go up in flames.

Oh and here's another one for you to look into: the Nice France truck attack. That's another mass murder committed without a gun that had a much higher body count than those committed with a gun (the killer had a couple of guns but used the truck as his primary weapon because he knew it would give him a higher body count). So in comparing that to mass murders with guns, would you compare all death by car to all deaths by gun? That's the kind of idiotic comparison you tried to make in your failed attempt to counter my argument.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:07 PM
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Iím 100% in favor of a magazine ban.....TIME MAGAZINE. Itís a liberal **** rag.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:27 PM
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None of that makes my comparison invalid. <snip> Nothing you claimed changes that fact.
You cherry picked one incident and made a very bad analogy. Sorry. Pointing to one anecdotal incident and then somehow claiming correlation isn't even close to realistic. I have no opinion on any bans, just your misguided analogy.

Quote:
<snip> Over half of all gun deaths are suicides....But you include all those crimes in your number. That is blatantly dishonest, and it is typical of gun control propaganda: it's all based in lies.
I included homicides only, that's the 48k number, just homicides. I didn't include any suicides. You're mistaken.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:45 PM
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I think the biggest problem with a magazine ban is that it’s silly. A magazine is a plastic or metal box with a spring and a plastic or metal plate for the follower. How are you going to ban something that simple ?

Magazines are not a serialized part. There is no real way to track them.

Magazine capacity is irrelevant to almost all crime. There is a possible link to mass shooters success rate and magazine capacity BUT it’s small. Most “ mass shooters “ shoot less people than one magazine hold even in CO where the limit is 15.

But even if you believe lower magazine size will slightly reduce the death count in mass shootings you have two problems.

One mass shootings are rare and the law enforcement cost does not match with the public benefit. In other words you could spend a lot less money per life saved in other Places.

Two mass shooters generally plan their crimes for long periods of time and make complicated preparations. So for the typical mass shooter , say a parkland type guy , building and testing 30 or 40 round magazines would not represent a significant impairment to his planning. In fact the little creep would probably enjoy it and maybe even write about it on 8 Chan or In His suicide note etc.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:04 PM
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You cherry picked one incident and made a very bad analogy. Sorry. Pointing to one anecdotal incident and then somehow claiming correlation isn't even close to realistic.
The incident I gave proves the point I made: if it can be done once it can be done again. You could add in people killed in accidental fires too, since if it can happen accidentally it can be done deliberately. But that isn't necessary, because it is proven fact that the biggest mass murders have all been committed with things other than guns, and nothing you claim changes that. Claiming it does is nothing but a lie.

The truck attack reinforces that truth. And then there is the Oklahoma City bombing. Nothing you have said changes the proven fact that a so-called assault weapon is not necessary to commit mass murder, and other weapons have indeed proven to be even more deadly in that kind of crime.
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I have no opinion on any bans, just your misguided analogy.
You are clearly here making a pitiful attempt to support the big lie at the heart of assault weapon propaganda. Your attempts to challenge the truth I stated here are not just wrong they are attempts to support a lie, making them a lie.

Once you show yourself to be a liar, there is no reason to believe anything you claim. If you come here to support the lie, you are here supporting the purpose that lie is being used for. You can claim anything you want, but you are clearly here as a liar supporting the lies of gun control. That is undeniable. You claiming otherwise is an example of a lie on top of a lie.

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I included homicides only, that's the 48k number, just homicides. I didn't include any suicides. You're mistaken.
I don't know where you got your 48k number then. A quick internet search shows that number to be blatantly false. This is a link to numbers coming from an extremist anti-gun site, and even they call you a liar:
https://lawcenter.giffords.org/facts...ce-statistics/
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:04 PM
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I don't know where you got your 48k number then. A quick internet search shows that number to be blatantly false. This is a link to numbers coming from an extremist anti-gun site, and even they call you a liar:
https://lawcenter.giffords.org/facts...ce-statistics/
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-8.xls

You have an interesting and abrasive style. You're wrong, but it's interesting nonetheless. It's clear by the numbers shown that mass homicides by fire are the biggest concern.

Murder victims by weapon 2014-2018
364 homicides committed w/ fire
48,549 homicides committed w/ firearm
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:01 PM
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You cherry picked one incident and made a very bad analogy.
Seriously?

Analogy: a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based.

The similarity is...people were murdered by one individual. The comparison is about the tool used, showing how the gun requires more planning, more investment, better ability, and STILL isn't as effective as a common uncontrolled item found on a corner every few blocks in any city.

Sounds like a GREAT analogy to me.

The fact that people aren't using bombs or other options more often is only because guns are more individualized and our culture is used to seeing them as a solution.

Take them away, and the nut jobs and criminals will find better tools in a heartbeat.


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Sorry. Pointing to one anecdotal incident and then somehow claiming correlation isn't even close to realistic. I have no opinion on any bans, just your misguided analogy.
Correlation? Where did you get that? Straw man. You really like to hear yourself talk, dontcha.
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