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Can you "Learn To Love" the AR platform?

17K views 153 replies 58 participants last post by  Axethebarbarian 
#1 ·
Recently I've been looking int the AR platform and looking into building one of my own. Currently my MBR in a Chinese SKS and I absolutely love the gun, but I feel I would be undermatched easily in a SHTF scenario (though I would much rather never use it I would like to have it).
In order to build I would have to sell my SKS to fund the project, and its proven hard to separate myself from.
I was actually able to shoot an AR for the first time last week and I must say I was not impressed.
I like the size, weight and ability to change mags but I felt that the 5.56 round was puny compared to the 7.62x39 round I've come to love and could not get over how loud the AR was compared to it, and how it felt like a toy in my hands (coming from a wide background of lever actions and other hunting style rifles). I also question bans in the far future.

Overall I felt like the AR left me feeling disappointed and second guessing the plans on my build. Has anyone else experienced something similar and found that they now love the platform or does anyone have any advice on how to get over my fear of selling a weapon I love to fund one that may be better for protecting me in the future?

Im open to everyones opinion, because I know I'll probably be bashed for not falling in love at first sight. Thank you for reading.


UPDATE ON PAGE 7!! SKS REMAINS AND AR IS BEING BORN.


Update #2 finished ar posted on page 8
 
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#2 ·
Rationally the AR is a newer platform, so you get better accuracy and functionality that comes with innovation. It is a slightly different beast than a tried and SKS, but both are a viable weapon in the right hands.

One perk of the AR is that you can pick a multitude of calibers to shoot (including 7.62x39), the SKS will only ever be 7.62x39.

I have much love the for AK and SKS rifles, but for maintenance tasks the AR is much easier for me to repair.

Between accuracy improvements, ammo capacity, and modular construction, the AR takes the cake in that regard. For simple functionality on a proven platform the AK/SKS is also a good winner in that regard.

In regards to the ban, when the AR goes, the SKS, AK, M1A, and all others will likely fall victim as well. If you love the SKS and can reload it expediently and fill the general roles you want it to, then keep it. If you want to look into different and more specific applications for your rifle, the AR might be better able to fill those roles.
 
#3 ·
Recently I've been looking int the AR platform and looking into building one of my own. Currently my MBR in a Chinese SKS and I absolutely love the gun, but I feel I would be undermatched easily in a SHTF scenario (though I would much rather never use it I would like to have it).
In order to build I would have to sell my SKS to fund the project, and its proven hard to separate myself from.
I was actually able to shoot an AR for the first time last week and I must say I was not impressed.
I like the size, weight and ability to change mags but I felt that the 5.56 round was puny compared to the 7.62x39 round I've come to love and could not get over how loud the AR was compared to it, and how it felt like a toy in my hands (coming from a wide background of lever actions and other hunting style rifles). I also question bans in the far future.

Overall I felt like the AR left me feeling disappointed and second guessing the plans on my build. Has anyone else experienced something similar and found that they now love the platform or does anyone have any advice on how to get over my fear of selling a weapon I love to fund one that may be better for protecting me in the future?

Im open to everyones opinion, because I know I'll probably be bashed for not falling in love at first sight. Thank you for reading.

Well, I think your dislike for the "feel" of the weapon is emotional and not factual. Marines are issued M16A4's. They somehow avoid breaking them for the most part. 'Nuff said.

Your dislike for the caliber has some merit, and lacks some merit. Neither the 7.62x39 nor the 5.56 are much good against any REAL cover. Both will perforate vehicles and the like plenty well. So, I'll just show you a gel test for each.

Cheap junk vs. Cheap junk


(skip to 3:00 on the 2nd vid to get to the shooting)

Expensive stuff vs. Expensive stuff



So...make your own call, there.

What I can assure you is that the M4 is plenty durable and reliable if you buy quality.
 
#41 ·
Well, I think your dislike for the "feel" of the weapon is emotional and not factual. Marines are issued M16A4's. They somehow avoid breaking them for the most part. 'Nuff said.

Your dislike for the caliber has some merit, and lacks some merit. Neither the 7.62x39 nor the 5.56 are much good against any REAL cover. Both will perforate vehicles and the like plenty well. So, I'll just show you a gel test for each.

Cheap junk vs. Cheap junk
Wolf Military Classic 7.62x39 124gr FMJ Ballistics Gel Test (HD) - YouTube
Denmark Made NATO M855 62gr 5.56x45 Ammo Test & Review (HD) - YouTube
(skip to 3:00 on the 2nd vid to get to the shooting)

Expensive stuff vs. Expensive stuff
Hornady 7.62x39 SST (Zombie Max) Ballistics Gel Test (HD) - YouTube
Speer LE Gold Dot 223 64gr GDSP Ballistics Gel Test (#24448) - YouTube

So...make your own call, there.

What I can assure you is that the M4 is plenty durable and reliable if you buy quality.
Excellent post! Thanks!
 
#4 ·
Here you'll probably get bashed more for calling it an MBR but that's another thread. I felt the same way when I got mine. I liked the AK and saw no reason other than trying something new.

The more I use it the more I like it and want more. To beat a dead horse, the ergonomics sucked me in. Everything is where it "should" be IMO. As far as 5.56, the round is battle tested. Some will tell you anything less than .30 cal will do nothing but wound, but those are usually the same people that think .45 ACP is a
50 BMG. It works. I bought into the whole it'll never be as reliable as an AK or SKS thing but I have not had a failure yet at around 2000 rds with minimal cleaning and every crap ammo I can find. Just keep it wet and it'll run as long as you have good parts put together properly.

If you reload or don't mind spending money there are much better rounds than M193 or M855. Mk262 or the newer SOST round seem to be much more effective but at a price point. 5.56 has been killing people in the 60's right? Personally I wouldn't want to be shot with it.

Is it perfect? NO, but everything is a compromise. Weight, accuracy, parts, modular construction, optics availability, you decide what works for you. Good luck.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies so far, and I agree with all of you.
I had considered the 7.62x39 upper but I see where a lot of people have longevity issues. I'm still researching this though. And I agree with the statements on the AR having accuracy and being more modular on its side. But as foe the reel I described, it wasn't so much cheap feeling as it was uncomfortable, but this could be due to me being new to the platform. The model I shot was incredibly loud and felt extremely forward heavy.

And thank you for the video comparisons, I will watch them when I can get to my computer.

It's also nice hearing from something coming from an AK background. I also shoot the cheapest that I can get in bulk, which was another concern for the platform that I had thought about. Thank you for bringing it up.

I will be looking at around $700-$900 into this build.
 
#7 ·
Just keep what you have and love. For my security the more people who drive AK's the better.

I think you can buy an AR-15 cheaper than you can build right now. TROY INDUSTRIES has quality AR's for $599.00

(NOTE: I own sixteen AR-15's.......Most are pickled and cached in 120MM ammo cans)
 
#9 ·
Yeah there's a lot of good sales grew one on right now but I'm wanting to assemble it myself, so I can really learn how it ticks and get it exactky the way I want. Plus it's a way to pass the winter.
Just for fun I looked at a lot of sales going on and built one in my head for roughly $400 to see if it could be done LOL and it was fairly easy this week
 
#10 ·
I'm just gonna come right out and say this: Why would you sell something you love to fund an unknown?
An SKS is not "undergunned" vs. the AR, and I have both platforms. Use what you love and what you're comfortable with.
You could buy a lower and some mags and sit on it until you could comfortably put one together financially...I saw some of the PSA stuff for black friday and you can actually build one for 380-450. No kidding.
 
#11 ·
I'm just gonna come right out and say this: Why would you sell something you love to fund an unknown?
An SKS is not "undergunned" vs. the AR, and I have both platforms. Use what you love and what you're comfortable with.
It depends on the situation with the sks, I feel it is sluggish to reload and hard to manage in tighter quarters. It just seems like an ar would make more sense for a defense situation. I cannot afford a large firearm find so it would have to go. I just want to do what would make more logical sense, trust a large sluggish rifle that I love to shoot or move on to something I'm new too but may be able to train with and be in a better state of mind.
 
#13 ·
Yes you can learn to love the AR,
I started off owning Lee Enfield, HK91, M1A's and an FAL but after serving for 8 years I just learned to love the weight, balance, functionality, ease of use and easy breakdown of the AR. Plus the weight of ammo is great.

And now you can get one for almost any caliber you want.
What's not to love about that?

Why sell your SKS?
I ALWAYS regret selling guns I like.

With the price of stripped lowers these days buy one and then buy parts as you can afford it and do your research and get the parts you want. When you are done you will have a rifle you will love. And like you said you will know it inside out.

Have fun.

.
 
#14 ·
I'm an AR fan over any other rifle made for "combat." With that being said, in your position, I would absolutely NOT sell your SKS to fund a AR build, even though I think you would like the AR better. My reason behind this is three fold; 1) You are already proficient with the SKS. 2) You already have accessories and ammo for it. 3) You are able to use the rifle right now.

Personally, once I get a firearm (along with its ammo&accessories) and get proficient with it I always keep it, no matter if I move on to another platform or firearm. When you sell your SKS you will not get your time, blood, sweat, and tears out of it. Plus you will loose access to it.

If I were you, I would keep the SKS. Cease any purchasing of accessories and ammo for it and save my money up to purchase an AR. Whether that AR is in the same caliber is up to you. Personally, I would stick with 5.56;it will take care of business plus diversify your ammo.

If you are wanting to build it your self, then I would study up. Youtube has some great videos and you can learn everything you need from there. Beware however that you will need to buy some tools. For example, a vise block holder for the upper and lower, barrel/wrench or multi tool and so on. The good thing about this is that you will be able to take care of your weapon should something happen to it. The bad thing is it is added money. You may just want to purchase a ready to go rifle so you can get going now instead of later. Then use it to learn and possibly build your gun after that once you get knowledgeable.

What ever you do, good luck. If you have any questions let us know. Someone will know the answer. Have a good un!
 
#17 ·
So you're a gunsmith? Not likely due to your unfamiliarity with the AR, I'm guessing. People put them together all the time and have little to no gunsmith experience, not sure how well they work but I guess that's their problem.

The post above this one, do that.
 
#34 ·
Are stating that only a gunsmith is qualified to build an AR? Nearly anyone who has a fundamental understanding of mechanics, is willing to do some research, is willing to buy the right tools, and can follow directions can build a safe and reliable AR.

OP, if you'd like to have an AR that has a high likelihood of having the same reliability as your SKS, and would really like to go the build route, I suggest saving up for parts with a higher reputation for reliability. I have no experience with PTAC, but the web is rife with negative feedback. Take that for what it's worth, but it would be enough to scare me off. You can build a weapon that is a notch above that using PSA parts. It may not be top tier, but the feedback on the quality of PSA parts is generally good when compared to other "budget" builds. I did a budget build using PSA parts a year ago and was able to use "premium" bolt carrier, CHF FN barrel, a nicer enhanced SOPMOD stock, Magpul grip, and Magpul MBUS sights, for $650 by taking advantage of sales. You could save $150 by going with the basic grip, sights, stock. The tools were about $100 as well, although its a bit more if you don't have access to a torque wrench. For the cost of the parts, plus tools, it is probably break even or maybe cheaper to buy an assembled entry level AR from a reputable manufacture. I can understand wanting to know what goes into building it, but remember, if you buy an assembled firearm you can safely, almost completely, disassemble/reassemble nearly all of the moving parts to see how it works.

Going back to the SKS, if you prefer the ergonomics and cartridge I wouldn't part with it. If your main concern is the speed at which you can reload, then spend your extra dollars on lot's of practice. If you have decent stripper clips you should be able to reload in under 5 seconds. If you are highly concerned about capacity you can find internal 20 round magazines. Sure, it will never be as quick, and easy as external box magazines, but you can still be fast, effective, and deadly with the SKS, even if you are fighting against those with ARs.

Let's face it, even in pSHTF, the chances of being in frequent and sustained gun battles is few and far between. The most likely (also unlikely)scenario in which rapid and frequent reloading will matter is against some sort of foreign or domestic military force, that will be armed with fully automatic weapons, other antipersonnel weapons, ammunition, other supplies and logistics that are far beyond your means. You are already outgunned. You are going to need to rely upon your other gifts and advantages if you want to be a survivor.
 
#18 ·
Can you "Learn To Love" the AR platform?
You can learn to really fight with a gun, versus just knowing how to shoot, at which point love for the AR will be a foregone conclusion about 99% of the time. There's a reason pretty much every successful design since it showed up has at the very least drawn on AR ergonomics. There's also a reason just about everyone has gone to 5.56 or copycat calibers (5.45 etc) for fighting rifles.
 
#19 ·
Get to Walmart today.
Layaway one of the Colts or SIGs in the case.

Go back on Black Friday, cancel the layaway and lose your $10 layaway fee, then go buy the rifle as it is now "in stock" at a 20% discount.

This Friday Eve, I will have a new SIG M400 for under $750 OTD.

Do the same and you will have a good base to start with.
Change out the furniture later if you want, add whatever sights etc...
 
#20 ·
Nothing wrong with the AR platform...I carried it for a long time. Along with a good low/medium powered optic(ACOG preferably) you'll have a lot of fun with it. There is a bit of a learning curve with them if you're used to the SKS, but that's a software problem, not a hardware problem. Don't sell the SKS, they're cool rifles to have and a blast to shoot. Once you get that AR, save up a bit and pick up an AK as well. Tons of fun. So many get wrapped around the axle about "what I'm gonna carry when SHTF" just have fun with it....enjoy playing with different weapons but I'll warn you- it's an addictive and expensive habit!
 
#23 ·
the AR is a platform like any other... thats why for me it comes down more to caliber choice then platform most of the time... when 5.56x45 m855 failed me in iraq, i lost faith in the caliber for the most part, but its still the round i shoot and reload for the most simply because it is cheap and lends itself to high volume (i generally load the equivalent of m193 though).

for me projectile construction and composition can be and is developed across caliber, which is why when some folks say "hey 5.56 isnt that bad with barnes triple shock projectiles", then i just say "barnes also makes triple shocks in .277" and .308" projectiles, why would i limit myself to an expanded .223 projectile, when i can get even more expansion and performance out of other calibers?"

the AR can be adapted to several calibers which is a plus, but it is also counterbalanced by throwing expanding hot gasses with physical particulates into critical moving parts, which will add both thermal and mechanical stresses to parts. That being said you can't really expect any machine to keep chugging with no maintenance whatsoever... so i simply prefer long stroke piston systems... it still throws gas and particulate and heat into a piston, but it keeps that stuff away from more critical parts, and generally simplifies maintenance. i also prefer fixed ejectors to spring loaded ejectors, which in my mind makes one more moving part and spring that can fail on an AR...

An AR is still a viable option in any caliber, and i do have 4 of them now (3 rifles in 5.56, 6.8 and 300 blk, and one pistol lower that i have a 5.56 and 300 upper for)... but i also have an SKS a XCR, a mini, a sig 556r, and 3 aks (1 7.62 and 2 5.45), and those are only my intermediate caliber platforms... i have 4 .308 semi platforms that i would also not be afraid to use. it generally comes down to the situation you are preparing for and what you are willing to invest in.

the government goes for lowest technically acceptable bid, which means their decision is based solely and requirements and price... individuals are not limited to that and can invest in best value for them... which means they can adjust their requirements and price range accordingly... also note that not all ARs are created equal, you might have a different opinion of an AR with a gisselle SSA-E trigger compared to a GI single stage.
 
#30 ·
I feel this will be me as well. I'm attracted to the versatility and such but just doesn't feel like a gun. Whether I'm just not used to it yet or not idk




Thanks everyone else for the responses as well! I wish I could reply to everyone's!
 
#31 ·
Lots of good comments in the thread. I'm not a lover of the AR platform however, there aren't any other designs out there with the parts availability across a broad range of prices. You can keep an AR running for a long long time without needing to be a gunsmith. For this reason alone, an AR is a good choice. Do like one poster said and buy the parts needed to assemble one as you get funds freed up. I think prices will continue to drop...at least until the next presidential election.
 
#44 ·
Ironically, the M16 proved more reliable in the late 60's tests (all except sand, which it was barely edged out), than the M14.

The issues in the early years were incorrect powders, which do not even exist on today's market with such high calcium content.

Also, soldiers were told not to lube/clean them. Chrome chambers and whatnot were done away with because of cost-saving. The humid jungle, no lube, the ammo that blew what amounted to concrete into the works...it was just a recipe for failure. Like feeding a Porsche GT3 lamp oil and trying to drive it through a swamp.
 
#40 ·
If you're looking to spend $700 and want a good weapon, might I steer you towards a Romanian M10 AK....or a Yugo/Zastava M70...and even the new WASRs I've handled ain't too bad.

It shoots the same caliber you already have a weapon chambered for, they come with a brand new chrome lined mil-spec barrel(which will last a lifetime, I've seen many Romanian AKs in Afghanistan still kicking it after a rather rough existence) and they WORK. No questions asked. Take it home, give it a good cleaning, no drama.

Mine shoots 2in @ 100M with 123gr Brown Bear.

$700 in AR land really ain't gonna get you the quality of weapon you want. Sure, there's cheap ARs, but you won't be happy with it in the end from everything you've said in this thread. And you can keep that sweet SKS:)
 
#37 ·
Don't sell the SKS to fund an AR purchase. Save money a little at a time to make the purchase. If you feel outgunned by an AR, maybe you can find one of these Chinese star fixed 20 rd mags. then get a bunch of stripper clips.

Start with 20 and reload as needed, the one thing that is troubling is it's a PITA to reload with out being able to lock the bolt open. It can be done just awkward.
 

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#39 ·
Recently I've been looking int the AR platform and looking into building one of my own. Currently my MBR in a Chinese SKS and I absolutely love the gun, but I feel I would be undermatched easily in a SHTF scenario (though I would much rather never use it I would like to have it).
In order to build I would have to sell my SKS to fund the project, and its proven hard to separate myself from.
I was actually able to shoot an AR for the first time last week and I must say I was not impressed.
I like the size, weight and ability to change mags but I felt that the 5.56 round was puny compared to the 7.62x39 round I've come to love and could not get over how loud the AR was compared to it, and how it felt like a toy in my hands (coming from a wide background of lever actions and other hunting style rifles). I also question bans in the far future.

Overall I felt like the AR left me feeling disappointed and second guessing the plans on my build. Has anyone else experienced something similar and found that they now love the platform or does anyone have any advice on how to get over my fear of selling a weapon I love to fund one that may be better for protecting me in the future?

Im open to everyones opinion, because I know I'll probably be bashed for not falling in love at first sight. Thank you for reading.
The best upgrade you can do in the USA is probably buy one of the Century Arms VZ2008 rifles, I owned a Czech CZ858 for a little while and loved the rifle. Light, handy, shot 3" groups with Polish M43 ball dated 1985 without even trying. Don't own it anymore but I would buy one again in a heart beat.
As for being undergunned with an SKS, you aren't.
I'm one that has tryed to like the AR in the past and as far as I'm concerned they suck and aren't for me. But then I also have ample access to the original M43 7.62x39 load that you can't have south of the 49th and within 200 meters it punches most barriers just as well as 7.62x51 M80 ball and vastly outperforms all .223/5.56 loads that are available in bulk within the same application.
 
#42 ·
I started out on an SKS too, and had the same initial impression of the AR platform.

I kept my SKS and waited to buy the AR. I'd suggest you do the same. Both are worth owning but one's not worth getting rid of the other to get.

After having both for a while now, I would say if SHTF and I had to take one gun and leave home for good it would be the SKS.

The AR requires more maintenance, is more fragile (you'd really have to beat on it to break either one, but the AR would break first), is less powerful by a noticeable margin (especially if the barrel is shorter than 16"), and is more sensitive to ammunition quality. It also requires magazines that are not known for their ability to shrug off hard usage (some are pretty durable though). It IS plenty sufficient though and very adaptable and fun. AR's are usually pretty accurate too.

I have never seen an SKS break unless it was blown up, shot, run over by a tracked vehicle, or had 100,000 rounds through it. I have owned five SKS's and the only time I ever had one jam it was because I put one of those recoil buffers in it (don't waste money on one of those). Although, I've never had any of my AR's jam either. I clean all of my guns regularly though, maybe every 200 rounds or so.

If you practice with the stripper clip loading system you will not find it to be much of a hindrance to quick shooting. Buy a chest rig or bandolier and get cardboard inserts for the clips so that the ammo stays on them and allows for quick removal from the pouches.

If I were NOT leaving my home during a SHTF situation I would likely use the AR for most "guard duty" uses. I have one in 5.56 and in .300 Blackout (with a suppressor for it soon on the way hopefully). As long as I have ammo to feed it I'd grab the .300 first.

Actually, that's all somewhat of a lie. I'd probably grab my 7.62x39 AKMS before either of them in any situation, but since you didn't ask about the AK here I excluded it. The AK combines the best of both worlds.
 
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