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Old 02-14-2013, 03:40 PM
John Vorberger IV John Vorberger IV is offline
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Default .30 Tokarev for Home Defense/Self Defense?



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What do you guys think about the .30 Tokarev for HD/SD? I also would like to know how the .30 tok ranks in stopping power compared to .40 S&W and other common calibers.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:44 PM
sojurn87 sojurn87 is offline
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One of my main issues with the round are the limited number firearms that shoot it.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:46 PM
Fenrell Fenrell is offline
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It is also pretty high velocity and mostly available in FMJ, which makes over-penetration an even bigger issue. Will it work? Yes. Are there better choices from an availability and performance standpoint? Yes.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:50 PM
sojurn87 sojurn87 is offline
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It is also pretty high velocity and mostly available in FMJ, which makes over-penetration an even bigger issue. Will it work? Yes. Are there better choices from an availability and performance standpoint? Yes.
I can think of one purpose that round is would be perfect for.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:55 PM
Tackleberry41 Tackleberry41 is offline
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One problem you would have with 7.62x25 is the over penetration. You can be dang sure its going to go thru whatever your shooting it at and the wall, and of course what ever is on the other side. Another issue is what ammo you can buy, just about everything your gonna find is ball ammo. Wolf makes HP but I have never actually seen any of it. They are also well known for going thru body armor.

That being said if you do use HP you can expect some pretty bad damage to what ever it hits. 90gr isn't alot out of say a 380, but the Tokarev will launch them at usually 2x the velocity. I load up 90gr hornady XTPs for mine. No idea on the penetration out of HP, at 1500-1600 FPS you can bet those XTP will open up and dump plenty of energy.

I know there are limited guns that fire it, the various tokarevs and the CZ guns. Hard to say Tokarevs are not reliable. I paid all of $220 for mine.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:56 PM
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I think one can safely say that 85 grains at Mach 1+ would hurt if someone intersected with its path.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:58 PM
Fenrell Fenrell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sojurn87 View Post
I can think of one purpose that round is would be perfect for.
For that particular purpose (if I catch your drift), I would choose a rifle over any pistol. I don't expect it to ever come up for me though.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:26 PM
rsutter rsutter is offline
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I buy FMJ and reload with the same projectiles Tackleberry uses. The muzzle energy out of a Tok is nothing to frown at. It is about twice the velocity of a .45.
My biggest concern even with the HP is over penetration. Would be good if you were being attacked by someone in a car or on the other side of a cement block wall and needed to defend yourself, but I'm not sure how the courts would take that case.
I really, really like the Tok round though. It's fun.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:01 AM
Inusuit Inusuit is offline
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In any major caliber, "stopping power" is more about shot placement. I wouldn't pick a Tok as first choice for defense, home or carry. Better options are used LE turn-in Glocks in 9mm or .40 S&W. Ammo availability and selection for one reason.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:01 PM
Marlin 45 carbine Marlin 45 carbine is offline
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the round was used widely in short barrel submachine guns as an enhanced 9mm para, .30 luger or 9mm mak. I'd like to have one of the handguns made for it as a woods knock around gun.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:51 PM
TCraig TCraig is offline
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I was amazed at the penetration of this round (surplus). Shooting at a thin steel beam, maybe 3/16" or slightly thinner, a 40 call makes a dent, 9mm leaves a small mark and tok just blasts a hole right through.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:02 AM
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Not a lot of guns chambered for it, Not a lot of ammo available, and what hand loading supplies that are available for it are mostly ball loads. Never noted for reliable stopping. In a nutshell, I'm not a fan of it.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:38 PM
Herd Sniper Herd Sniper is offline
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Rounds that get used in pistols are often designed to specifically be used in pistols. Other rounds that "get adapted" to be used in pistols are higher pressure, higher power or higher speed submachinegun rounds. Most of your Tokarev rounds have been adapted to be used in pistols and/or submachineguns. In a way, either the pistol or the submachinegun suffers depending on the way the round was originally meant to be used. A good example came out near the end of WW2 for the German Army.

Near the end of the war, the German Army came up with a 9 mm high pressure round that was to be used in their submachineguns. It was not supposed to be used in their sidearms at all because the higher pressure round would cause excessive wear on their pistols or even destroy the handgun. Here's another website that explains the 9 mm Uzi round a little bit better...

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/fa...-9mm-ammo.html

Any higher pressure pistol load is probably one adapted from submachinegun ammo. As such, you would want to be very careful shooting these higher pressure loads in any kind of pistol.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:11 PM
RogueSpear2023 RogueSpear2023 is offline
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Its a good round from a penetration stand point, but for HD use there are probably better calibers.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:42 AM
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I had a buddy back in the early 90's that bought a 7.62x25mm Tok at a local retailer (Centerfire Systems), for the PRINCELY sum of $44.

He bought it for a beater "truck-gun", and needless to say, I was impressed with it's power.....IIRC, I think 1140-round sardine-tins of the ammo were $49, so volume shooting was a given back then.....The fit and finish on his was ROUGH, but it NEVER jammed, ALWAYS worked.....I could find no fault in his logic of buying one....

Ammo is getting hard to find these days, but they ARE a powerful little beast of a handgun, and peasant-proof to boot...What's NOT to like? But, for Carry, as mentioned, there are MANY better choices....

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Old 02-19-2013, 07:24 AM
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Default 30 Tokarev for Home defense

well as the others said it's a hot round . have you ever shot one ?? try one first . they are a very loud round . if you fire one in your home don't expect to hear yourself think for a couple of days. and if you have to fire one in self defense on the street then I would be makeing sure you attacker is'nt in line with someone you don't want to shoot.

get a 9mm and use it or a 40 357 or a 45. for in the house a good pump shotgun . you don't want to go looking for people who are wandering around your house as it's dark . unless you send the dog after them first and then take care of business.

burglars usually work in pairs . I would rather get the drop on them then have it the other way. if it's all you can afford then by all meens buy one but as I have suggested get a nice 9mm . CZ 75 Glock etc. I like the CZ . fits like a glove and it's all steel.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:28 AM
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penetrates like a SOB

I had a CZ52 in 7.62x25 - loaded it with Speer 100 grain half jacketed plinkers to a pretty stout level.

Buddy had a hog 'jump the shoot' trying to take them to market, busted a front leg real bad. From 50' I shot the critter just behind the shoulder and it didn't seem to notice. Another shot broke the shoulder and one to the head put it down.

The first round zipped clear through a full grown hog.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:21 AM
Preacherboy Preacherboy is offline
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I owned a CZ52, got it cheap and had a lot of ammo. I thought I would shoot it in a PPC league and I got enough magazines too. Then I realized how annoying the controls are...the magazine release.

The guns that shoot the round are not really user friendly. If it is all you can afford or you really need a pistol that defeats body armor then get it, but I'd almost rather have a used revolver for under $300 in a straight wall pistol case with expanding ammunition that won't over penetrate.

I have heard that the Chinese mofia prefers the Tok because of its penetration. Needless to say, I sold mine and all the ammo for a profit and purchased another Beretta with a light rail.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:24 PM
whirlibird whirlibird is offline
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Going back a hundred and twelve years or so, the parent of the Tok round came out, the 7.62mm Mauser.

Until the .357 Magnum came out it was the "hottest" round available.

Looking into history, the Shanghai Municipal Police faced criminals armed with the .30 Mauser round as well as used the round and found it effective if bone were hit, otherwise it was less than stellar.

There is a reason the SMP went to the 1911 pistol and the .45 Automatic cartridge, it was more effective. And when they were having regular gunfights, effective is important.

In today's world, the .327 Magnum is the closest to the Tok and it comes loaded with jhp's to begin with. Actual street effectiveness? We don't have any real data yet. But we do know that ball out of the Mauser and Tok are wounders not stoppers.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:18 PM
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I have one of the old Broomhandle Mausers in .30 Mauser (7.62 Mauser)that my Great Uncle brought back from Germany. Pretty good shooter, reloadable brass and ammo are available, and in a pinch, can be made from .223 brass.
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