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Old 07-25-2007, 09:45 AM
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Who would you be facing in a riot or in a situation like hurricane Katrina? Looters; rioters; gang members? How well armed would they be?

Last edited by kev; 08-02-2007 at 10:04 AM.. Reason: spelling corrections
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:59 AM
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There are three layers of looters after a disaster - those leaving the affected area and those entering the area, and those that have stayed in the affected zone. Lets discuss all three. Some of the information I am giving you is first and second hand.

Looters leaving the affected area: As most evacuees, they (looters) will try to find food, water and shelter. These people will blend into the crowd and it might be hard to tell the difference between a criminal and a law abiding person. These are the wolves in sheeps clothing.

Example: I had the grand opportunity to work at a refugee camp after hurricane Katrina. The camp I worked at held about 400 people, and we were maxed out. Our location was about 300 - 400 miles from New Orleans. Lets just say there were a couple of times the county sheriff was called to remove certain people from the camp. The county judges asked the governor for help and a detachment of national guard (NG) was sent to the camp for security. There were about a dozen NG soldiers and they acted as security only. The person that ran the camp lived in a house at the camp grounds. His house was broken into and his daughter was almost raped. After the owners daughter was assaulted, he (the owner) closed the camp and told everyone to leave. The camp was a summer camp with cabins, swimming pond, and lunch hall.

Example: My brother, who is a deputy sheriff in an area west of New Orleans. One of his buddies pulled over a car on the highway. A search of the car revealed several guns. The people in the car were not outstanding members of society. The option was to leave the guns with the police or go to jail until full back ground checks could come back. Well, about this time someone from a local church pulled over and asked the cop what was going on and if these people from Louisiana needed somewhere to stay. The cop warned the person, but they would not listen. So, the guns were collected and the people went on their way to a shelter. The next night or two, people living around the shelter had their cars broken into. The shelter was closed and everyone was told to leave.

Looters entering the area:

Example: As hurricane rita was approaching east texas, just hours before land fall - the winds were picking up, the rain was starting to fall; the local police in the town I live caught several people breaking into a clothing store. These people were from a small town just south of here. The looters thought everyone in my town had evacuated, so they were just going to help theirselves to what ever they wanted.

Looters that have stayed in the affected zone:
These are the people that could not leave or did not leave. An example are those that stayed in new orleans during katrina.

Some of these people did not plan on being a looter. Their food and water ran out, and they looted what they needed to live. This group is not real criminals.

Others stayed during the disaster just to loot later. These are the real criminals. This group will steal anything and harm anyone that gets in their way.
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Last edited by kev; 07-25-2007 at 11:44 AM..
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:05 AM
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ryte, thanks. So the looters blend in well and keep a low profile.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:31 AM
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if you lived in a big city like new york, san diego, or san francisco you might have to deal with the mafia as well (if you are extremely unlucky). Most mafia families are very well armed and will kill just about any one wo gets in their way. I only mention this because kev covered just about the rest of the possible bad happenings i can think of.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:34 AM
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ok, thats good to no. lol
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:20 PM
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You personal location will play a big part in this question, IMO.

The majority of the European side of the world has much stricter gun control laws and you'd obviously see more close-quarter engagements and improvised weaponry.

Another thing, like Ken said, larger cities will usually have greater numbers of better armed, more aggressive criminals. Kev touched another good point, that looters will go to cities or other places that they see as easy attacks of opportunity(vacant, elderly, outnumber, etc.)
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:47 AM
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ok nice, will have to arm myself to the teeth. its really easy in the country side.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resister View Post
Were the looters and people in the car with guns African ?
Does it matter?

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Old 07-27-2007, 11:55 AM
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Killx and resister propose the idea of organized crime groups being a problem in riot or hurrican situations, I also know of some people who believe organized crime groups will quickly move into power (and power struggles) if government collapses in situations of riots, natural disasters and other reasons.

Does anyone have experience with this actually happening? I don't recall hearing much about it when Katrina hit and when we had the ice storm in '98 I didn't hear or see it either.

I think it is more probable these groups will pose a threat if there is a more widespread socio-economic collapse.

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Old 07-27-2007, 01:19 PM
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Resister you posted it on the other thread. I forget what gang it was in new orleans but I heard there was a large one that tried to take control. Agreed on NYC since I heard the mafia stole truckloads of WTC remains. I would say on the west coast and the south it would probably be the mexican mafia that would try to take over.
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:02 AM
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Getting in on this a little late, but generally speaking, the sort of folks who tend to prey on others are used to dealing out violence, not recieving it (stong resistance).
Our objective is to make sure we can hurt them more then enought to leave us and our families alone.
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:51 PM
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Yeah, nice. Thats why i want a 10/22
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:55 PM
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Phil,
Do you know what is better than that?
A lot of friends with a lot of 10/22

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Old 08-02-2007, 04:46 PM
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If your sub-division has organised an armed neighbourhood watch that can control the entrances, you won't have anything to fear from the gangs. Their primary targets will be people who are unarmed and alone (sadly, most of the people in a city of millions will be alone!).

In general, criminal gangs will never "take control". In the immediate aftermath of SHTF, there will be nothing take control of anyway, as things will be very chaotic. In the weeks that follow, the police and military will still be in existence, and will out-number and out-gun the gangs.

It is likely that the most organised gangs will not actually be killing and stealing constantly, but will move into black market dealing/bartering and will be seen as a necessary evil. Random punks will still kill you for the bag of food you're carrying, but by and large the organised criminals will be too busy profiteering.

What you and your neighbourhood really need to worry about is if the crisis lasts many months or years. The longer it lasts the more likely it is that you will have to deal with corrupt/rogue elements of the police and military. These are the entities that actually *can* "take control".. Warlords and their private armies inevitably arise from the military/law enforcement organisations, not criminal.
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
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Phil,
Do you know what is better than that?
A lot of friends with a lot of 10/22

Bogdan
along with some 25 rnd mags clipped together
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:45 AM
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Here mopedboys (all 50cc or smaller vehicles are mopeds in here) like to steal gasoline from cars, like some people stole my gas from my Mazda at some night, too bad i wasnt awake at that point, it would be so nice to scare 'em littlebit :D dang youngstas.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenxkillz View Post
if you lived in a big city like new york, san diego, or san francisco you might have to deal with the mafia as well (if you are extremely unlucky). Most mafia families are very well armed and will kill just about any one wo gets in their way. I only mention this because kev covered just about the rest of the possible bad happenings i can think of.
There is no more Mafia in NYC - they all moved to the suburbs.

Our problem now is the Hip-hop gangs, blood and crip wannabees and the currupt politicians. We are the next New Orleans. No one here is ready for anything. Most NYers are rich spoiled libs.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:53 AM
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Kev hit it. I to am originally from New Orleans and I go back quite frequently. Here is another example for ya . During Hurricane Andrew my buddy worked for FPL. They were fixing downed lines when a guy pulls up with his wife and 2 kids. He got out of the car and told the work crew that he was taking there water jug off the truck. The crew said "are you crazy?" the guy then pulled a .38 on them. Needless to say, the guy got the water.
Point being at first the sign of breakdown, you will contend with good people in desparate situations and they will do anything. The survival instinct kicks in. You might even do the same thing. This is why we can't stress enough GET YOUR PREPS TOGETHER NOW!!! You can't eat bullets. and if you plan on taking on a big hostile crew, you might be attracting alot of attention. meaning you defintely have something worth taking. At my AO I plan on avoiding conflict unless I'm immediately threatened. That is why underground is the way to go for me.
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:18 PM
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I got in real late on this one but to me for self / family protection nothing says leave me alone like the good old 12 ga pump. you point that sewer pipe look barrel at they it has a great pucker factor. not to mention it is a great area denial wepon.
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