Survivalist Forum banner
341K views 1K replies 251 participants last post by  Dragunov 
#1 ·
#42 ·
Wise, would you please post your laboratory results of your headspace gasses? Also, your lab testing showing why a 25 year life is expected. You do lab test, right? Afterall, all legitimate food storage companies have food scientists develop their formulae for maximum lifespan, while the testing lab checks their packing methods to make sure of minimal O2.
 
#45 ·
The thing about the Wise post that bothers me is they do nothing to refute the arguments that Mountain House has made--nothing about the process, their head space gases, what their analyses of headspace gases indicate, if they've even done it--and I'll bet that either they haven't or, if they have, the information isn't very good.

If it were, I think we'd have heard about it from them.

IMO, it's just...fluff.
 
#46 ·
While I cannot speak directly for Wise Food, they have decided to turn the other cheek on what Mountain House did, and while they have lab testing, they have not as of yet to release that data. Wise Food decided not to get into a testing debate, which was a bold move. Most companies who do testing do not target companies directly, as Mountain House did, here is an analogy:

Say you have a water filter system, and you have a lab test to see what it can remove, and then you deliberately single out one of your competitors when you publish the report. This is something even the main berkey company has never done, they let the testing they have on their products stand by itself, and do not start debates directly with competitors.

While I look forward to Wise Food publishing their testing, it will turn into a "Our lab" against "Your lab" debate.

theberkeyguy
 
#49 ·
I am tempted to go grab a hand held and test myself. But I have no doubt that they know they have high oxygen levels because they just said that the product was so dry it doesn't matter? ? HA. And now they try to divert attn by complaining that they have "new" competition and forget about the levels. Not in any response have they said anything in the results was untrue..
 
#51 ·
Never tried Wise. I have bought and tried out Mountain House entrees and I have to say I was surprised at how good they are. I think they are probably better items to stock than MRE's because the #10 cans give you more food for less money, plus dehydrated has a very long shelf life.

I use the pouches though for more than just camping... I've found them convenient to take with me (and I have some in the car always) when traveling on business because they are a way to have a hot meal in any hotel room without cooking (use the coffee pot to heat the water, you don't actually NEED boiling water to reconstitute these things, just hot water, and a coffee pot gets it plenty hot enough). This was particularly useful when I had to go to Parkersburg, WV on an emergency overnight trip to repair a server that had been damaged in the June 29 storm, no restaurants (including the hotel's) were open (and the grocery store had only canned goods for sale, they'd tossed their frozen and perishibales because they were unsafe from losing refrigeration, but fortunately beer was for sale lol), so I had some Mountain House Chili Mac for dinner.

Very impressed with their product, I wish it were more readily available in stores around here, I know I can buy them online, but I love to be able to put my hands on something and take it to the checkout. Our local Walmarts used to sell them but don't, a couple of the sporting goods places around Huntington sell a few of the pouches, Dunhams's and ****s stock them, but have a very limited selection.

A Cabela's opens in Charleston next month which will be awesome for being able to buy these in a store.

Edit: D1ck's Sporting Goods name doesn't play well with the censor filters LOL.
 
#56 ·
With the "low" cost of testing equipment nowadays no need for my lab your lab BS a few diff people with deep pockets can test and see for themselves and post results, not like the testing process is hard to do.
Most I have found are in the 2-3 grand price range. A person or WISE can buy and post video results. Simple and the whole test takes about 10 seconds..
 
#58 ·
The Wise Rep's reply sounded a bit like whining, to me. I still don't agree with their "serving size" philosophy. Any bulk purchase methodology used in LTS planning requires a dollar/calorie equivalency, and their system makes that difficult. I can't see how that is done for any other reason than their own business benefit.

The industry NEEDS to standardize along that one line in order to truly tout its value to us. Whenever I see "year's supply for X", I am biased against that add and company, be it the manufacturer or the retailer. I do more research, but I resent that fact that no standard exists, and that one company's calorie count is so far askew of another's.

Mountain House has been a player for many years. It would be nice, and a huge advantage to them, if they took the ball and ran in the dollar /calorie race.
 
#59 ·
I will stick with MH because we have tried it and liked it. The Wise we tried was way to much sodium and the flavor was off.

Now all I need to do is find some of the low sodium MH to try. Anyone know where to find someplace to buy a few different pouches? EDIT: Never mind, I found them and there is only one that the wife might eat.
 
#60 ·
I am not a big fan of one size fits all packages. I would rather store individual ingredients.

That said, I do have Mountain House in stock. It has an important place in my preps. I trust the track record of MH and have always been leery of WISE. The vast majority of feedback I have read, seems to justify my apprehension. (that goes for any "newer" company trying to benefit from the growing food storage segment) It would be wise of WISE to answer our questions as soon as possible so we can price compare, with full knowledge that we are actually getting what we pay for. I worry about the people that may wind up having a bunch of nutritionally void dust because some company failed to do proper quality control (i.e take shortcuts), knowing the consumer won't have recourse, when those preps are needed. And that is a major issue where preps are concerned.

As an FYI..... I find most pre-packed meals way to high in sodium and I am not alone. Mountain House has given me a few of their new low sodium meals to try out. I was impressed. One of them I actually had to add some of my own salt. That is what I like. Give me a complete meal but, let me season it to my liking. (in no way is this a deliberate endorsement, only my personal experience)

Just my 1.5 cents worth

Shawn
 
#62 ·
I am not a big fan of one size fits all packages. I would rather store individual ingredients.

That said, I do have Mountain House in stock. It has an important place in my preps. I trust the track record of MH and have always been leery of WISE. The vast majority of feedback I have read, seems to justify my apprehension. (that goes for any "newer" company trying to benefit from the growing food storage segment) It would be wise of WISE to answer our questions as soon as possible so we can price compare, with full knowledge that we are actually getting what we pay for. I worry about the people that may wind up having a bunch of nutritionally void dust because some company failed to do proper quality control (i.e take shortcuts), knowing the consumer won't have recourse, when those preps are needed. And that is a major issue where preps are concerned.

As an FYI..... I find most pre-packed meals way to high in sodium and I am not alone. Mountain House has given me a few of their new low sodium meals to try out. I was impressed. One of them I actually had to add some of my own salt. That is what I like. Give me a complete meal but, let me season it to my liking. (in no way is this a deliberate endorsement, only my personal experience)

Just my 1.5 cents worth

Shawn

That is great to hear. To many long term (and other foods) have way to much sodium. I would much rather see less since you can add your own to taste.
 
#61 ·
I still say that if MH used an independent (as in, they do not own it) lab, Wise should do the exact same tests, using the exact same lab, let the lab come in and randomly select which products to test right out of their warehouse, go to a store and purchase MH off the shelf, and replicate the MH test/comparison with random samples.

This would not only put the debate to rest but, if they get different results than the MH paid for test (since the selections were more random), they would have something to really say...
 
#67 ·
One more thought on this. Shouldn't Wise already have the lab results to back up their shelf-life claims? Did they make them up or is there science behind the claims? This is not something they should have to figure out how to defend now, that defense should have been solidly documented before it was put into the first advertisement.

I'm really sorry if they made some bad business choices but let's not shoot the messenger here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MikeK and seawind
#69 ·
While wise has lab testing, they have decided at the current moment not to release it and I expect them to release more details in the future.

Because they do not show their testing quickly, does not mean they are hiding, from talking with them, they may release it, but are probably working on a solid rebuttal, and not a knee jerk reaction.
 
#71 ·
You should not need almost 2 weeks to work on a "rebuttal". If you are selling a product based on certain claims you should already have the data and "rebuttal" ready. EXP for something as important as this.

It is not like they need days and days to do a test that takes about 10 seconds.
Chances are they need to find a better excuse to explain the high oxygen content and why that is AOK.
 
#74 ·
If they do regular quality control testing, why not release the results of that to appease people while they do testing to refute the claims of MH?
 
#76 ·
My guess is that they're a small family business trying to do a great job filling a niche need and the revelation from Mountain House is pretty devastating for Wise. It sort of seems like Goliath crushing David. But, in the end, Wise needs to mature their business if they can or will survive this and take their food to the next level - verifiable long term shelf-life. But they will probably have to do it soon. I hope they make it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vivienne
#77 ·
My interest in Wise's response is tied up in a couple points.
They make certain claims that can only be made based on verifiable study.
They were the subject of a published report questioning those claims.
They have not made a substantive response.
They have kept their own research private.

If Wise has evidence to refute the lab work MH published, where is it? It's natural the defend ones self when challenged. I have a hard time believing their claims, and the longer they take to publish what they already have, the harder a time I'll have believing the eventual data.

I think the issue is this: their own research is lacking or deficient, and relies on generic info tied to the freeze dried process in general and not on thoroughly hashed evaluation of the product; they have to find a way to get the data to match claims and at the same time hold up to further independent study.

They also have those big name promoters to contend with, as radio personalities can and will drop them like a rock if this data proves to be accurate.

I wouldn't want to be Wise Foods right now.......
 
#79 ·
Yep, we are. :D:
 
#82 ·
I am awaiting a response from Wise food that has the testing, having talked to Brian Neville last week, the president of Wise, they will come out with it, but I cannot give any details as to when (He did not give me a date). I will post the response here on this thread.

theberkeyguy
 
#89 ·
I think this is becoming a more and more damaging issue the longer that Wise takes to respond.

We are into August now and still nothing except their "we stand by our claims" official release. You would think their quality testing reports would have gone some distance to counter the MH report.

I stand by my previous comment: assuming the lab MH used was not owned by them, Wise should hire the same lab to collect random samples of their product and perform the exact same tests.

I am ordering some more food stuffs today (replacing the MREs in a BOB to cut weight). As always, it will be MH because I have never in all the years and years (honestly, its been too long; I don't completely remember when I first used them...) I have stored and used their product I have never had a problem.
 
#92 ·
This is why everyone should try LTS food before plunking down big bucks to buy it.

I had a sample from Wise; I thought it tasted fine, though it was very salty. My wife said it hurt her mouth with the saltiness. The sodium levels listed in the nutritional information were very high and anyone on a low-sodium diet would have to take that into account.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MTShawn and felicia
#95 ·
I have only had Wise once and did not like it at all. My MH converted the buyer of the Wise to also use MH from then on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: felicia and goose3
#96 · (Edited)
No matter to me anymore. They had a chance to answer people that buy A LOT of food from various sources. I would have given them a second look IF they would have responded. Just the fact they issued a canned press release on this site, did nothing more than alienate a potentially large market. I will keep spending money on the long established companies that care about their customers and have a long track record. I said before, what good is stored food if all you get is powdered dust that is void of nutrition because of lack luster quality management. There are to many good companies out there. They have lost a potential customer in me, forever.

P.S. At least some companies listen to their customers. More healthy choices are coming on line every day.
 
Top