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341K views 1K replies 251 participants last post by  Dragunov 
#1 ·
#5 ·
I love MH, and have never had much experience with Wise. The only time I tried Wise was with a friend and we hated it. I got him to try some of my MH of the same sort of thing and he was converted.
 
#6 ·
Kudos to Mountain House for helping expose Wise as the scammers that they are.

Average oxygen levels in Wise Company products were 18.25%, nearly the 21% level found in the atmosphere and 110 times higher than the average 0.16% oxygen found in Mountain House products. The most alarming part is that Wise Company products were manufactured in April of 2012 and already exhibit near-atmospheric levels of oxygen, which would not provide a 25-year shelf life.
That doesn't surprise me a bit from them. Mountain House had the tests done by Columbia Food Laboratories, an independant lab. I'd love to see similar tests done on Efoods and a few of the other fly by nighters that are popping up just to take advantage of the increased demand. Part of why I keep suggesting to stick with known, long term food storage companies.
 
#226 ·
Is This A Fly By Night Company...

Kudos to Mountain House for helping expose Wise as the scammers that they are.

That doesn't surprise me a bit from them. Mountain House had the tests done by Columbia Food Laboratories, an independant lab. I'd love to see similar tests done on Efoods and a few of the other fly by nighters that are popping up just to take advantage of the increased demand. Part of why I keep suggesting to stick with known, long term food storage companies.
MikeK
I know you are a good source of experience. I would like to ask if Keystone is trustworthy. My wife bought 2 cases of 28 oz cans of Beef Chunks. Every can's lid & bottom was not sealed down like it should be. The cans all pop like you've stored canned items WAY too long. Camping Survival said just go ahead & eat them, they're fine. I would like to know if Keystone is a "Fly By Night" company? (The dates are stamped 2015)
Thank you for any insight you can give me regarding companies I should not buy from.
 
#8 ·
Why buy either of them? Make your own dehydrated meals and foods. Go to the store and buy frozen veggies. put them in your dehydrator. pack them in Mylar with an oxygen absorber. And don't forget to pack the additional water it will take to consume dehydrated foods.
 
#10 ·
I support Mountain House 100%. Although we have some #10 of some items like butter powder and so on. The study might have been funded by Mountain House however, both the company doing the study, and Mountain House would lose 100% of credibility if the information was not 100% accurate.

As a result of the article I would be sticking to the Mountain House brand. Of course like everyone else, I have my own stocks of staples, like rice, beans, and so on.

As far as taste, everything I have tried with Mountain House was quite tasty, which prompted me to purchase more. Their new low sodium products are also a great thing, particularly for folks with special dietary needs.
 
#15 ·
I dislike both brands, And this is far from being unbiased research when MH is paying for it. I would not trust it.. So why not just stock good foods that you normally eat and rotate it.. I do that and it works very well.
Simple.

You can't stock milk or cream.
You can't stock eggs (easily).
You can't stock butter.
etc.

We're pretty heavy canners in our house, and we know what we can and cannot set aside either via home canning or via long-term storage in mylar.

There are some products where MH #10 cans are simply efficient and effective ways to accomplish what is otherwise a PITA.

YMMV.
 
#12 ·
Having some alternatives, with other nutritional value is a great idea. Having some stuff for camping, BOB, GHB is good. Having some alternatives, which require no refrigeration, such as meat, eggs, etc. is appealing to me. Even if you don't love the taste, it is better than rice and beans indefinitely.

There is nothing wrong with stocking canned goods and rotating it, I would say most folks probably do that as well as other stuff, me too. I find having maximum options and choices is very valuable. A years worth of store bought canned goods take up a lot of space, and if something went wrong, you need a couple of fall back options.
 
#13 ·
For me, MH serves two purposes:

One, it is a low space, long term storage item that can be used to supplement canned, fresh, and other such items to make food go farther.

Two, it is light as heck when it comes to something for carrying in a BOB that is not those shortbread lifeboat bars.
 
#16 ·
It's definitely an an explosive press release and if accurate, it is going to at least cripple Wise. I've called and written to Mountain House asking for a copy of the research, because I don't like that the actual study was not published along with the press release. If I see an actual copy of the research I'll repost it, and if anyone else already has it I'd love to see it! (Maybe one of the MH dealers on Sboards?)
 
#17 ·
My biggest problem with Wise Foods is their sodium to calorie ratio. It's extremely difficult to find nutrition information on their foods unless you look on an actual package where it's required to be listed.
I have had an ongoing argument with them about the sustainability of surviving on their products. You would well exceed your recommended salt intake if you consumed an adequate amount of calories by eating their products. Provident Pantry and Mountain House both make their nutrition information available and neither have a sodium to calorie ratio anywhere near Wise.
 
#19 ·
And what if there is an event that makes it short term impossible to hunt, fish, etc. Say a biological contamination of the region where you cannot safely leave your home? Say a radiation leak that does not reach your home, but affects much of the wild land around it? etc etc...

How many times have you gone hunting or fishing and gotten nothing? Most people have had it happen AT LEAST once, but when you are trying to keep yourself and your family fed in a stressful time it is not an option.

Stored foods are meant to be a fall back, not the main supply. It is like using a fire extinguisher instead of calling the fire department. You want to have one, but if the better option exists then use it.

If stored foods MUST be your main supply of food, then yeah, you better hope you have the skills to supplement the supply as it runs out. Look at it this way though, stuff like storing MH is exactly the same as smoking and drying meat to get through the winter. It is a lot harder to hunt and fish in winter than summer, especially during storms. A friend of mine lived way up north fro decades and told me once of a winter storm where for more than 10 days it was impossible to leave the house because of the weather.
 
#23 ·
As an FYI, I got a call back from Mountain House today. Pretty impressive to me, as many times when I request info via a contact page, I never hear from the company. The rep spent about 15 minutes on the phone going over the testing and answering questions.

Here is a link to a slightly different release that had a chart and more specific data with it.

I've Googled and can't find any sort of reply from Wise. I know there are some Wise sellers here on the board...anyone have any information or response from Wise?

It looks to me that this could very well end Wise, as I don't see any way they don't recall essentially everything that someone wants to ship back to them. From what MH said, it looks like Wise is Nitrogen flushing...badly...to only remove about 2%-3% oxygen from their packages. Not sure why they wouldn't use Oxygen Absorbers, as its a cheaper, and far more effective, process.
 
#25 ·
From what MH said, it looks like Wise is Nitrogen flushing...badly...to only remove about 2%-3% oxygen from their packages. Not sure why they wouldn't use Oxygen Absorbers, as its a cheaper, and far more effective, process.
We recently had a series of defensive posts from another of the fly by night companies. Trying to defend their product. When they mentioned that they nitrogen flushed, they immediately discredited themselves beyond repair in my opinion.

I always suggest only buying from established companies with a proven track record of high quality. Ones that do product testing to ensure that their preservation method is working. There are too many newcomers and most of them from what I can tell are cutting corners in places that are too important to be cutting corners in.
 
#27 ·
That O2 study seals it for me. I haven't had much luck getting info from them, and what I've found online didn't please me much. This bit of news, if accurate, breaks them wide open. Additionally, I didn't like what I found regarding calories per dollar and per serving. What they claim to be sufficient for one person really isn't. It would be "unwise" to rely on it for any appreciable part of food storage.

Regarding both of them, however, I discovered ingredients that we have been removing from our lives. For a time, the entree style products might be okay, but overall, we go with individual ingredients in order to creat our own meals, and yet have the benefits of long term storage. Here are a few things we jotted down.....

http://asurvivalplan.com/2012/01/24/check-your-freeze-dried-food-ingredients/
 
#28 ·
Answering a couple of questions...

John Auberry, Oremrunner,

Mountain House commissioned an independent third party laboratory that specializes in food to perform a headspace analysis on 30 pouches each of both Wise and Mountain House food. The analysis involves using an instrument designed specifically for the purpose to analyze the oxygen and carbon dioxide content of the "headspace" in a pouch, with nitrogen by difference.

It's true that we paid for the study, and we appreciate your concerns. But there was really no other way to persuade an independent laboratory to do the work without paying them for it.

Mels thinkingitover,

We were concerned that people were buying large quantities of food for long-term storage that might be unsuitable for the purpose, and an emergency is no time to find out that you didn't get what you paid for... Any credit or discredit flows from the scientific results.

For anyone who's interested,

We've published a chart that details the study results, including O2 levels for each of the 30 Wise and Mountain House pouches (by flavor), averages, acceptable levels of O2, and atmospheric level of O2.

http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=331780&vid=5

Whoops, it looks like AandB beat me to it... Well, should you ever have questions or comments, we really do like to hear from you. I'll drop by these forums on occasion or feel free to email MH-Info (at) ofd.com.

Thanks for your interest in this very important topic.
 
#33 ·
John Auberry, Oremrunner,

Mountain House commissioned an independent third party laboratory that specializes in food to perform a headspace analysis on 30 pouches each of both Wise and Mountain House food. The analysis involves using an instrument designed specifically for the purpose to analyze the oxygen and carbon dioxide content of the "headspace" in a pouch, with nitrogen by difference.

It's true that we paid for the study, and we appreciate your concerns. But there was really no other way to persuade an independent laboratory to do the work without paying them for it.

Mels thinkingitover,

We were concerned that people were buying large quantities of food for long-term storage that might be unsuitable for the purpose, and an emergency is no time to find out that you didn't get what you paid for... Any credit or discredit flows from the scientific results.

For anyone who's interested,

We've published a chart that details the study results, including O2 levels for each of the 30 Wise and Mountain House pouches (by flavor), averages, acceptable levels of O2, and atmospheric level of O2.

http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=331780&vid=5

Whoops, it looks like AandB beat me to it... Well, should you ever have questions or comments, we really do like to hear from you. I'll drop by these forums on occasion or feel free to email MH-Info (at) ofd.com.

Thanks for your interest in this very important topic.
Mountain House,

I would love to see you commission & publish this same test on the other new companies entering the market such as Legacy Foods & E Foods Direct and all of the others.
 
#32 ·
When my wife, who was my fiance at the time, mentioned that TVP, like nearly all foods derived from soybeans, has very high amounts of vegetable estrogen, I pitched my supply of TVP based stuff. Too much estrogen is bad for men and women, but more particularly, children, especially male children (think Harvey Milk).

I purchased some WISE food kits for a relative who is very poor and lives via foraging wild edibles as well as some gardening. He ate them, but said they were not that great. I recall him commenting about the "air" in the envelopes compared to MH stuff I had gotten him previously. His conclusion was that if I were to spend money like that again, be it for him or myself, WISE may not be the best choice.

He did say that the THRIVE and Honeyville Farms brands in the #10 cans were, generally, as good as the MH stuff.
 
#34 ·
Mountain House

I'd like to have a few questions answered from Mountain House.. My e-mails seem to go missing....

Why is MSG ( by name or it's "other" names) in any of it's products?
Why does sodium figure so high in some entrees?

Surely we don't need preservatives in FD foods, and salt can be added by the end user to their tastes. I'd prefer to start off bland and build from there.

MSG and it yeast-name derivatives simply have no place.
 
#40 ·
I'd like to have a few questions answered from Mountain House.. My e-mails seem to go missing....

Why is MSG ( by name or it's "other" names) in any of it's products?
Why does sodium figure so high in some entrees?

Surely we don't need preservatives in FD foods, and salt can be added by the end user to their tastes. I'd prefer to start off bland and build from there.

MSG and it yeast-name derivatives simply have no place.
Jericho,

Thanks for your questions.

Mountain House hasn't added MSG to products in a number of years, but you are correct that there are other ingredients that contain free glutamic acid. The short answer to your question is simply this: "flavor". (You are spot-on that neither sodium nor free glutamic acid is necessary for preservation in freeze dried foods.)

Free glutamic acid provides a savory flavor enhancement often called "umami" and naturally occurs in many foods, such as cheese, seaweed, mushrooms, tomatoes, and soy sauce. As you point out, it is also found in yeast extracts, hydrolyzed proteins, and elsewhere. Foods with "umami" are perceived as richer tasting and more satisfying.

Regarding sodium, the original reason for the elevated sodium content is that Mountain House foods were initially created for outdoor enthusiasts who required greater sodium levels for adequate hydration for their greater physical exertion.

History also plays a role, in that many Mountain House recipes were created in an era when sodium was very common as an ingredient in larger quantities than it are today.

That said, our newer recipes tend to have less sodium (e.g., our low-sodium line) as well as less free glutamic acid. But it is a slow transition in that direction, especially since so many customers love our older recipes just the way they are...

Basically, we've tried to provide options for a wide variety of our customers.

One thing to note is that our sodium levels -- at 300 mg to 800 mg per serving -- are frequently lower than many other brands in the market whose products clock in at 800 mg - 2900 mg (!) per serving.

In closing, we always recommend that customers determine which factors are most important to them (e.g., sodium, weight, flavor/texture, shelf life, variety, etc.) and gather as much information as possible about the products they're considering.

Every customer has a unique set of needs and we want to help you determine how Mountain House products can work for you. And if they don't, for whatever reason, we may be able to help you find a reputable source for products that will.

Thanks again for your questions!
 
#35 ·
Folks please see the initial response from Wise Company, Inc. below:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wise Company, Inc.: Ensuring Quality Every Step of the Way

Salt Lake City, Utah – July 16, 2012: Mountain House, a supplier of emergency and outdoor foods, issued a press release on July 12, 2012 targeting a single competitor: Wise Company. Why attack Wise Company when Mountain House has dozens of other competitors? Because Mountain House is now launching a new bucket and pouch line designed for emergency preparedness very similar to a product that has been a specialty of Wise Company since their inception.

Wise Company has experienced tremendous growth over the last few years with its emergency foods packaged in pouches capable of lasting up to 25 years. During this time, Mountain House has claimed that food pouches have no more than a 7-year shelf life. Now, in conjunction with the launch of its new product line, Mountain House has changed its story and claims that pouches can achieve a 25-year shelf life!

Wise Company takes great pride in providing high quality emergency food with a long-term shelf life. The Mountain House surprise attack relies on a lab study commissioned and presumably paid for by Mountain House. Notably, Wise Company’s existing quality testing and data show oxygen levels in its products lower than those alleged by Mountain House.

Wise Company’s raw materials and finished goods contain very low moisture levels. The extreme low moisture content contributes to product stability. Wise Company product is then packed in ultra-high barrier (UHB) packaging with a very low oxygen transmission rate as well as a very low water vapor transmission rate (WTR). Once sealed, Wise individual pouches are stored in durable plastic containers. These elements, along with proper storage and temperature, are essential to providing consumers with quality products capable of lasting up to 25 years.

“We take our obligations in this industry very seriously,” said Brian Neville, president and CEO of Wise Company. “We have confidence in our food pouches standing the test of time.”

About Wise Company, Inc.
Wise Company takes an innovative approach, providing dependable, simple and affordable ready-made freeze dried and dehydrated foods for emergency preparedness and outdoor use. Whether you are preparing your family for the future or planning your next outdoor adventure, Wise Company provides great tasting, nutritious entrees that are quick and easy. In short, Wise Company offers a dependable, simple and affordable choice for both your emergency food supply and outdoor needs. For more information on Wise Company and a complete list of products go to www.wisefoodstorage.com
 
#38 ·
Wow, gotta love that Wise Foods did not so much refute anything MH said. They basically said "Why pick on us? Pick on one of those guys!" and to try an cast aspersions on MH (dey said 7yrs den dey said 25yrs....dat means dey lying...)

On top of that, their 'defense' was to say how they package their products, not that what MH's lab tests found were wrong. I'm sorry, but if someone publishes a FALSE statement, should your press release in response to that not be "THAT IS FALSE"?

Sure they say their quality testing differs from the results MH got, so why not publish those results and lab proofs to refute MH claims? How about this: get the same lab MH used to test random samples of the product right off your line. REFUTE IT if it is not true.
 
#39 ·
Dear Wise Company Rep:

You would help your credibility by posting the reports from independent testing commissioned by your company. This should not be at all difficult for you to do. I presume you have them and I would hope they would substantiate your claims.
 
#41 ·
All I know is that this information will not change my buying one bit. The only Wise I ever tried I did not like. All the MH I have tried I like, so I store it and put it in my kits.

The only problem I have EVER had with MH was a personal preference one solved by having purchased one of the sample six pack of cans before I got a big order. We made some of the stuff just as per the directions and did not like how some of it turned out. We made note, and altered the directions to suit and presto chango it was fine now.

For example, we at my house felt the chili was a bit sharp, so we found adding it with rice, or adding some of the corn kernels softened it up perfect to our tastes. We found the beef stroganoff a bit thick for us, so we added more water next time.

I am actually only a few weeks away from my next order of both pouches and of some more #10 cans of MH. This report has only reinforced my sense of making the right choice.
 
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