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29K views 167 replies 83 participants last post by  Jackrorabbit 
#1 ·
As I am sitting here watching the news, there is little voice in the back of my head telling me the US is going to hit rock bottom. Unless Ron Paul gets elected, things are just going to continue to get worse. GOD help us if someone like mit or rick perry gets elected, because they are not going to help anyone besides the bankers.

What I see happening is tensions between the US and china and tensions between the US and iran to continue to rise. Compounded with that, congress is talking about cutting the defense budget.

Let me see if I get this right, iran is continuing to enrich uranium, and the US congress wants to cut money from the defense? When your enemies are building nuclear weapons, shouldn’t we at the very least maintain our current rate of military spending?

There are several directions I see the US going during 2012:

1. iran builds a nuclear bomb, gives the bomb to a small group of terrorist who sneak it a cross the US-mexico border. From there its just a matter of time before a major US city has a nuclear weapon detonated in it.\

Its not like a group of terrorist would even have to sneak a nuclear bomb across the border. Why not hire a truck and drive the bomb across? If 10 – 20 million illegal immigrants can find their way into the US, surely its not “that” difficult to get weapons across.

2. israel strikes iran, which threatens the supply of crude oil to russia and china. russia and china see the strike as a threat to their national security. In return, china and/or russia strike israel and the US.

3. The US goes broke, or continues to print money out of thin air. Either way its a lose-lose situation. Over the past few decades has spent more money then we can ever hope to repay. Its just a matter of time before the house of cards comes tumbling down

4. The drought that wiped out billions of dollars in crops comes back in 2012, which drives up prices. The US government will increase subsidies to farmers, which will continue to drive up the national debt. I have no issues with helping the farmers out, but instead of giving billions to foreign nations, why not keep that money here? Instead of giving the banks millions of dollars to bail them out from bad investments, lets give that money to the people. Or better yet, let the banks go belly up.

5. The absolute worst thing that can happen is for obama to get relected. obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act into law, which allows the government to detain US citizens without a trial.

What can you really say about a congress and president that wants to declare the US a battleground? From that declaration the government can detain citizens without a trial.

You might be saying “the government can not detain you without charging you with a crime”. Well, what happened with the Japanese-Americans during World War II? If it happened once, it can happen again.

Buy your food while its still cheap.

Vote third party, why are the democrats even on the ballot?

Buy your guns and ammunition while you can.

As 2012 progresses, I look for people to become worried. Worried people go into panic buying mode. As people start stockpiling food, guns and ammunition, I look for prices to go up.

One thing that has me worried, is the overall cost of living. If prices go up too much, or if we start having food shortages, I look for civil unrest to kick in.

The US has not had to face food shortages in decades, maybe since World War II? How will people react when they are faced with a situation they have never seen before? Will they stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem, will more people turn to social assistance programs, or will people start protesting like what is happening in other parts of the world.

The absolute worst thing that can happen, is for the middle and lower class get pushed to the point where they have nothing to lose. When people have nothing to lose, they will go to drastic measures to get what they want.
 
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#56 ·
Long term I see the greatest threat to the US as an economic collapse of the dollar. A collapse of Europe would likely trigger one here. Followed by unending martial law and dictatorship. Can Europe make it to 2013 without Italy defaulting?

Medium term I see the greatest threat as a pair of Scud lifted nukes that EMP the two coasts of the US. Scuds are a dime a dozen, available all over the world, can lift a ton of payload, and can reach 93 miles high, enough to simultaneously EMP both New York City and DC. The launch could even be from a container ship just offshore.

Short term I see the greatest threat as war with Iran. Three carrier groups, a nuclear sub, two amphibious landing craft all in the Gulf. And 9000 American soldiers officially stationed in Israel for the duration of 2012. Iran has some of Russia's best anti-ship missiles...
 
#60 ·
From the standpoint of a prepper, I think the threat of even a nuclear-armed Iran has been greatly over-hyped. IMHO a lot of the anti-Israel and anti-West rhetoric is meant for consumption by the masses in that part of the world, and shouldn't be looked at as anything more than tough talk from a scrawny lightweight in a room full of super-heavyweights.

If the Iranians ever did something so astronomically stupid as to attack the US with a WMD, they would suffer for it a thousand-fold in return, and their government fully knows that. In the days after 9/11 a lot of deadly serious promises/threats were made behind closed doors to foreign governments about the consequences of nuclear/biological/chemical attacks on US soil.

While I wouldn't say it's impossible, I think it's a vastly less plausible scenario than something like a global pandemic, an economic collapse, or conflict between neighboring countries over diminishing resources like fresh water. .
 
#61 ·
Sorry, I stopped reading after the "RP or else".........IMO, RP will cause the US to be a battleground quicker than anyone else. He wants to pull all troops back to the US and become isolationist, stop all foreign assistance and let the Middle East do whatever, except what they want to do is come over here and kill us all.

What RP pundits don't realize is that if we were to stop all printing presses and burned all excess money, we'll need to trade with the world even more. Turning our back on the world is counter productive, we have Americans that are tied to all Countries.

As said, whatever happens is out of our control now, we must get our ducks in a row( btw you can't stockpile enough) and keep on keeping on.
 
#62 ·
I believe we are heading for bad times and we should prepare for them.

As much as I dislike banks, they are the most efficient way for commerce to work. Writing checks, using credit and debit cards, ect. Without them trade will be so much more difficult. As far as I know Russia is exporting oil, not importing it.

Their is too many people collecting money from the goverment and not enough of us paying taxes. With more and more people retiring, the situation is only going to get worse. Having some land and the abilitly to grow some food will help. What worries me is that we are going to have to form groups and prepare for the next great depression and currently people are not prepared and disiplined to do it like we did in 1929.
 
#74 ·
I think the 2012 hype alone is enough to stir up the masses. And with everything else going on it will be a **** storm.

Very good advice. Its time to start getting your preps in order. If you are just getting started and are reading this dont wait. Get out and start prepping.


FYI- the walmart down the street from me started carrying m855 ammo. They ordered in 3 cases and sold all 3 cases to different people in the first hour. Went back in a couple of nights ago and they had ordered over 30 boxes (420rds per box). So people are starting to see the big picture.
 
#77 ·
This is the first year at my new home. My wife and I acquired the new house with 8.5 acres this past summer.

I'm in turbo mode this year for prepping. I'm not sure anything extravagant or spectacular is going to happen, but continuing economic issues teamed with a most likely Obama re-election doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. I also foresee that as the economy stays suppressed, crime will continue to rise.

Therefore I have:

-Planted 2 apple trees
-Planted 2 peach trees
-Planted 2 nectarine trees
-Started compost bin
-Plowed veg garden
-Started construction on automatic driveway gate
-Just acquired an old bee hive that needs restoring
-Finalized plans on my new chicken tractor

The plans for 2012 are:

-Order seeds, start indoors, and plant in garden
-Plant 2 plum trees
-Plant 2 pear trees
-Order bees and start first hive
-Build chicken tractor and populate with 4 PWL chickens
-Finish driveway gate
-Store 6 months of long term food
-Stock up on more ammo
-Sell 300 Win Mag and use money to buy Rem 870 defense shotgun

Should be a great and busy year.
 
#82 ·
I started prepping a few years ago as I got the same feeling as Kev..

8 by 12 Greenhouse
7- Fenced in Raised beds
7- Chickens they house in a already existing shed that was here when we bought our house.

Planted:

4-Blueberry plants
8-Blackberry bushes
8-Raspberry bushes
2-Apple trees
2-Cherry tree
3-Pear trees
2-Plum trees
2-peach trees

My son bought me a 921 Pressure Canner.
Bought a Berkey Water Filtration Unit
My dh has built several storage shelves.
Stockpiled 100's of canned goods.
Keeping cash out of the bank!


Future plans for 2012:

Planting a Herb garden.
Planting a Medicinal garden.
Planting a Asparagus bed.
Planting a couple more fruit tree's.
Planting more Berry bushes.
Adding more to the stockpile.
Adding more Lighting around my yard and house to deter theives.




6-month or more supply of food,HBA's & Medicines.
 
#83 ·
Kev,

I like Ron Paul and I agree with most of what he believes except his foreign policy views. Did I hear on the news the other day that he thought Iran has the right to have a nuclear bomb? I just don't get the whole idea of relativism between good and evil.

I like how Ron Paul stood up for Romney today concerning Bain. IMO Perry showed his true colors in his attck on Romney. Perry tuned out to be just another political Hack.

BTW voting 3rd party will just insure that Obama gets reelected.

BIH
 
#94 ·
BTW voting 3rd party will just insure that Obama gets reelected.
Please don't let yourself believe that. It's nothing more than a line fed to you by the two main parties to keep you voting out of fear, rather than out of actual hope.
If everyone who actually *wanted* to vote for someone other than the anointed top 2 candidates did so, we'd have someone other than one of the top 2 parties in the White House.
But they keep repeating that line to themselves, keep holding their nose and voting for someone they really don't want, just to attempt to keep someone else from getting into office.

What you've got to realize is that there is no true, fundamental difference between the END POINT that the Democrats want to take us to and the END POINT that the Republicans want to take us to.

Obama gets back into office: The train is full-speed ahead towards the Socialism station, arriving there in all of its glory.
Anyone Republican other than Ron Paul gets into office: The train is 3/4th speed ahead towards the Socialism station, ending up just 25 miles short of it.
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

Think of it this way:
A. Obama elected - 108+ more executive orders. National health care. Failing economy, perhaps total collapse of the economy. Higher taxes. The US hemorraging money in aid to other countries even though we're officially bankrupt. The US continues to comply with UN Agenda 21. Congress sends through bills like the Patriot Act or the NDAA(2012 version), he signs it.
B. Republican other than RP elected - 100+ executive orders in the first term. National health care. Failing economy, perhaps total collapse of the economy. Higher taxes. The US hemorraging money in aid to other countries even though we're officially bankrupt. The US continues to comply with Agenda 21. Congress sends through bills like the Patriot Act or the NDAA(2012 version), he/she signs it.
C. Ron Paul elected - ONE executive order: to rescind all prior tyrannical rights-eroding executive orders. No national health care. Federal Reserve sent packing so the economy can recover. Flat tax enacted. Hemorraging money to other countries stops and that money is directed towards fixing the problems in THIS country. The US tells the UN to take a flying leap off of a short cliff and take Agenda 21 with them. Congress sends through a bill like the Patriot Act or the NDAA(2012 version), he VETOES it.

There is no difference between A and B. It truly does not matter which of these you vote for, since it has the country ending up at the same place.
The only vote that actually makes a difference is C - voting for Ron Paul.
Will he be able to actually do everything he wants to do to get the country back on track? That depends on Congress. The things he definitely *can* do without Congress' intervention is rescinding all of the prior executive orders and getting us out of the UN, which will go a long way towards getting us on the right track and giving us our rights back. Vetoing all of those unconstitutional bills will also greatly help.
 
#84 ·
I don't disagree with any of your post Kev ... except maybe one thing, #1.

We have satellites in the air right now that can track low grade nuclear medical waste traveling in trucks to dump sights ... works off of the radiation it gives off, sort of like infrared.

If anyone tried to get a nuke across our border, we'd see it when it was coming off the boat in Mexico and long before it reached our border.

We're supposed to launch a new early warning system as well, based on the predator drone technology, that will be flying both our northern and southern borders in 2013. The low level cameras are supposed to be 10xs more sensitive than our current technology used for picking up radiation on the ground. From what I understand, we're already using it in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Middle East and it is supposed to be the bomb ... pardon the pun.

I feel pretty secure when it comes to them trucking-in or walking-in anything nuclear. Now, the rest of your post I agree with 100%. 2012 is shaping-up to be a funky year. But after tonight's New Hampshire primary, Ron Paul doesn't stand a chance to win this thing - it'll be Romney. Although Paul might win here in SC and that could, I suppose, change things, the most we can hope for is that Romney makes some promises, concessions if you will, to Paul in order to get his endorsement eventually.

Paul has already stated he will not run as a third party candidate.
 
#88 ·
Just curious - if that's the case about being able to see nukes through our eyes in the sky, would we then be able to see every sub / ship carrying nukes, know exactly where Iran's nukes or the manufacture of them is happening, and why do security personnel at ports attempt to inspect containers for nuke devices? I hope we do have that capability.
 
#98 ·
Let's remember people, the leaders of the US believe that their savior is a man who died, then came back to life from a cave 3 days later. They think the way to have him come back is to have a war with the Middle East so the anti-christ will show himself and this thing called Rapture will happen where they all fly up through the air to heaven, right through walls and cars and everything - just fly right through that stuff. These are the last people that I want to have a nuclear bomb!!!! To believe otherwise is just nuts!!!!!

Isn't it funny how anyone can be made to sound like a completely insane kook when you bring religion into play? The (majority) Christian US is no lower on the kooky scale than anyone else, and looked at by a non-Christian, it would seem we have just as little business handling nuclear weapons as any other kooky country. Especially when you take into consideration our insistence on crusading around the world forcing everyone at the end of our big gun to do it our way, or else.
 
#92 ·
If nukes come into play, it will not be here on our soil, not anytime soon anyways. If nukes come into play it will be Iran against Israel - and when that happens it will be katy bar the door globally. Not because all the major powers will start firing-off their nukes, but because Israel will respond in kind and the oil supply will be so disrupted that it will cause a meltdown to the global infrastructure and economy and it will have the major powers on high alert and sitting on the edge of their seats.

Always discounted in the nuclear issue, is Pakistan. To me, and to most people in the intelligence world these days, the Pakis are much more of a threat to hand-over nukes at any time to the bad guys than the Iranians are at the moment. Not to mention the fact that both the Pakis and the Indians have nukes already and there are factions within the Paki hierarchy that would use them just as quick, if not moreso, than the Iranians if afforded the opportunity.
 
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#109 ·
As I am sitting here watching the news, there is little voice in the back of my head telling me the US is going to hit rock bottom. Unless Ron Paul gets elected, things are just going to continue to get worse. GOD help us if someone like mit or rick perry gets elected, because they are not going to help anyone besides the bankers.

What I see happening is tensions between the US and china and tensions between the US and iran to continue to rise. Compounded with that, congress is talking about cutting the defense budget.

Let me see if I get this right, iran is continuing to enrich uranium, and the US congress wants to cut money from the defense? When your enemies are building nuclear weapons, shouldn’t we at the very least maintain our current rate of military spending?

There are several directions I see the US going during 2012:

1. iran builds a nuclear bomb, gives the bomb to a small group of terrorist who sneak it a cross the US-mexico border. From there its just a matter of time before a major US city has a nuclear weapon detonated in it.\

Its not like a group of terrorist would even have to sneak a nuclear bomb across the border. Why not hire a truck and drive the bomb across? If 10 – 20 million illegal immigrants can find their way into the US, surely its not “that” difficult to get weapons across.

2. israel strikes iran, which threatens the supply of crude oil to russia and china. russia and china see the strike as a threat to their national security. In return, china and/or russia strike israel and the US.

3. The US goes broke, or continues to print money out of thin air. Either way its a lose-lose situation. Over the past few decades has spent more money then we can ever hope to repay. Its just a matter of time before the house of cards comes tumbling down

4. The drought that wiped out billions of dollars in crops comes back in 2012, which drives up prices. The US government will increase subsidies to farmers, which will continue to drive up the national debt. I have no issues with helping the farmers out, but instead of giving billions to foreign nations, why not keep that money here? Instead of giving the banks millions of dollars to bail them out from bad investments, lets give that money to the people. Or better yet, let the banks go belly up.

5. The absolute worst thing that can happen is for obama to get relected. obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act into law, which allows the government to detain US citizens without a trial.

What can you really say about a congress and president that wants to declare the US a battleground? From that declaration the government can detain citizens without a trial.

You might be saying “the government can not detain you without charging you with a crime”. Well, what happened with the Japanese-Americans during World War II? If it happened once, it can happen again.

Buy your food while its still cheap.

Vote third party, why are the democrats even on the ballot?

Buy your guns and ammunition while you can.

As 2012 progresses, I look for people to become worried. Worried people go into panic buying mode. As people start stockpiling food, guns and ammunition, I look for prices to go up.

One thing that has me worried, is the overall cost of living. If prices go up too much, or if we start having food shortages, I look for civil unrest to kick in.

The US has not had to face food shortages in decades, maybe since World War II? How will people react when they are faced with a situation they have never seen before? Will they stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem, will more people turn to social assistance programs, or will people start protesting like what is happening in other parts of the world.

The absolute worst thing that can happen, is for the middle and lower class get pushed to the point where they have nothing to lose. When people have nothing to lose, they will go to drastic measures to get what they want.
So glad you see the light. Unless Ron Paul gets in office, expect hyperinflation and the end of the world as we know it. Mitt Romney is the same as Obama, just wearing different clothes....
 
#111 ·
Let me see if I get this right, iran is continuing to enrich uranium, and the US congress wants to cut money from the defense? When your enemies are building nuclear weapons, shouldn’t we at the very least maintain our current rate of military spending?

There are several directions I see the US going during 2012:

3. The US goes broke, or continues to print money out of thin air. Either way its a lose-lose situation. Over the past few decades has spent more money then we can ever hope to repay. Its just a matter of time before the house of cards comes tumbling down
you literally answered your own question... ^^^^^

Q: why did we end up "winning," the cold war;
A: because the Soviets went bankrupt mere months (and some say weeks) before the US did... this was primarily brought on by the nuclear arms race

during this time both the US and USSR both had significant delivery capabilities to include multi-warhead ICBMs. If Iran is a ways out from having weaponized radiological material, they are even farther from creating detonators and delivery methods for it...

you are correct that there is a risk of smuggling across borders (remember Cuba?), but if it can be carried by person or mule: 1. it is inevitably very low yield if in fact it can even start a nuclear chain reaction, 2. it would more likely be a "dirty" type weapon... neither scenario is great, but the resulting damage is much much more containable than a full up air blast multi warhead nuclear missile.

i think many of your other conerns outweight your fears regaring Iran's potential weapons programs. many countries are with us in our sanctions against Iran... to include Russia (so i read just this morning). Even the russians are trying to talk Iran off the ledge.
 
#115 ·
you literally answered your own question... ^^^^^

Q: why did we end up "winning," the cold war;
A: because the Soviets went bankrupt mere months (and some say weeks) before the US did... this was primarily brought on by the nuclear arms race

during this time both the US and USSR both had significant delivery capabilities to include multi-warhead ICBMs. If Iran is a ways out from having weaponized radiological material, they are even farther from creating detonators and delivery methods for it...

The delivery is the easy part, they have the missiles to go reach as far as maybe Greece, now load that onto an oil tanker, or equal sized ship and launch from offshore. The detonator is the easiest of all parts. Simply fire the "critical mass" into the core of the rest and it goes off. Enrichment is the hardest part, and they have the setup for it. I would bet that they are less than a year away from having what they need.

you are correct that there is a risk of smuggling across borders (remember Cuba?), but if it can be carried by person or mule: 1. it is inevitably very low yield if in fact it can even start a nuclear chain reaction, 2. it would more likely be a "dirty" type weapon... neither scenario is great, but the resulting damage is much much more containable than a full up air blast multi warhead nuclear missile.

What if it is carried to the US in small pieces and assembled here? That is the best guess of the Feds as to how they would do it.

i think many of your other conerns outweight your fears regaring Iran's potential weapons programs. many countries are with us in our sanctions against Iran... to include Russia (so i read just this morning). Even the russians are trying to talk Iran off the ledge.
Russia says they are with us, but they are still helping them to construct their heavy water reactor, so are they really with us, or just saying it(remember they voted against any new sanctions) to appease us?
 
#162 ·
interesting perspective from inline text... detonation isnt quite as simplified as you made it... i dont think iran has the resources organic to their inventory to do it, but they could easily buy one from other nuclear countries...

i am also not even remotely intersted on who iran can touch in that part of the world with their organic delivery methods... i could care less if they blow up anyone from mongolia to greece. not my problem

anyway... do you have sources for the heavy water reactor statement???
 
#168 ·
interesting perspective from inline text... detonation isnt quite as simplified as you made it... i dont think iran has the resources organic to their inventory to do it, but they could easily buy one from other nuclear countries...

i am also not even remotely intersted on who iran can touch in that part of the world with their organic delivery methods... i could care less if they blow up anyone from mongolia to greece. not my problem

anyway... do you have sources for the heavy water reactor statement???
http://www.iranwatch.org/wmd/wponac-nuclearhistory-0904.htm

Interesting read. 2004

"Mining and milling
Before uranium can be refined to fuel a reactor or a bomb, it must be mined. This is the first step in what is referred to as the "front end" of the nuclear fuel cycle. On February 9th, 2003, Iranian President Mohammad Khatami declared that his government intended to extract uranium from a mine at Saghand, in the province of Yazd. The mine is a key part of Iran's plan to produce nuclear fuel indigenously. According to Dr. Ghannadi-Maragh, the Vice President of Iran's Atomic Energy Organization, the mine site consists of two deposits, with a combined reserve of 1,550,000 tons of uranium ore and an average grade of 553 parts per million. "

Looks like Iran has the Uranium in their own country in a good quantity.

What they do with it SHOULD matter to you. If they can make a missile that can reach Greece, then they can put it on a boat and launch from the Atlantic and hit the US.
 
#113 ·
#116 ·
Why is that people are talking that we are at or above 100% GDP, but there are plenty of other counties above the 100% and they are still around. Japan has had 200% GDP for the past decade. Italy and Greece are still around, they are just in the news alot.

Yea, there is no way for us to get out of debt now, but I don't see it killing the country. Might be more riots when the government finally decides to cut back on the free money they are giving away.
 
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