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Old 06-16-2019, 02:38 AM
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I guess it depends on how invested you are in normalcy to begin with.

Just remember, your ancestors where able to find a reason to keep living through disasters of this scale. Personally, I would feel pretty bad by giving up after a million years of ancestors fighting with everything they had just to make a person who looks around and says "This is really depressing, I'm just gonna die"

I guess you could say its not hope that keeps me going, because I don't think I can remember a time when I had hope, even as a kid....it's more a matter of guilt.
Really? What disaster like "The Road" did our ancestors live thru?

Do elaborate.
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:38 AM
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2-4 weeks of walking might get you 280-560 miles (@20 miles per day).

There was nothing in the movie to suggest they were traveling further than that (after all they were just trying to get to the coast).

In general terms, if where you are is unsurvivable and 280-560 miles away is not and the only transport you have is your feet, then losers stay where they are and winners try walking (and avoid the roads). The outcome for the winners is not certain, but it is for the losers.

Is that so hard to understand?
I appreciate your enthusiasm.

If you want to pull the only the strong survive macho card go ahead. Nobody, especially the people in the book/movie, are walking 20 miles a day for 2-4 weeks with what they carry on their back through the forest. 20 miles in the forest is only going to be 50% of the distance you would cover on the road going up, down, and around everything anyways. People who think they can are kidding themselves and will end up dead. Winners plan more than one move ahead.
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:43 AM
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Really? What disaster like "The Road" did our ancestors live thru?

Do elaborate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

But even if not on that scale, everyone of us is a survivor of thousands of generations who lived in subsistence conditions with no hope of anything ever getting better.

Heck, life sucks right now for most people. And sure. tens of thousands kill themselves every year but most people go on even if there is really no hope to go on for. Its just what you do.
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:44 AM
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There are places with free flowing natural gas wells like a artesian well is to water.

One of those with a geny would run grow lights for a LOOONG time.
Now that is a solid idea. We have those around here, they are highly sought after. Sadly, very few of the 'free natural gas' properties remain. The gas generally comes out 'wet' here and people can't be bothered to maintain the anti-freeze systems in the winter. The majority of properties with good gas rights are being converted over to 'free' propane systems by the well owners.

Mind you, in the after, it could be very possible to shut off the gathering line on the well head and plumb a new system to your home. Not that I have thought about that or staged some supplies.

Heat in this climate is the biggest win. Being able to cook on that heat is also great. Being able to heat a growing space would be great to have a year round growing season. Electricity would be last on my list, but very possible with a good industrial quality low speed generator. It is a machine however and making them last decades of continuous use could be a challenge.
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:47 AM
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I appreciate your enthusiasm.

If you want to pull the only the strong survive macho card go ahead. Nobody, especially the people in the book/movie, are walking 20 miles a day for 2-4 weeks with what they carry on their back through the forest. 20 miles in the forest is only going to be 50% of the distance you would cover on the road going up, down, and around everything anyways. People who think they can are kidding themselves and will end up dead. Winners plan more than one move ahead.
So the event in the movie had occurred before the kid was born.

He was about 12-13 years old.

The event was severe enough so that growing food was not possible after the event (they walked past farms that were producing nothing).

Do you have the more than 13 years of stored food that would have allowed you to survive in place when the dad and son in The Road had to start walking or die?

Have you planned that far ahead?
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:49 AM
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There is some debate on that one. Humanoids where still pretty contained to Africa back then. The evidence of a long volcanic winter isn't clear cut in Africa.

It was a HUGE event. If it happened now it would be devastating. We do have much more than sticks and rocks to deal with the situation now however.
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:49 AM
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I think some machoists here are pretty full of themselves and aren't very realistic about survivability...

And one of the most infallibly bad qualities of any human is EGO and UNREALISTIC OVERCONFIDENCE. Time and again this has been the downfall of man, from the foolishness of dictators like Hilter and Saddam, to the foolishness of the Captain and crew on the Titanic, to hundreds of famous examples in history.

News flash. YOU, yes YOU, ain't gonna be a survivor in The Road. The film/book begin with the presumption that 99% of humans died along with most animals and most man made things were destroyed.

So set your toughguy act down for the evening. It's tiresome.
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:51 AM
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So the event in the movie had occurred before the kid was born.

He was about 12-13 years old.

The event was severe enough so that growing food was not possible after the event (they walked past farms that were producing nothing).

Do you have the more than 13 years of stored food that would have allowed you to survive in place when the dad and son in The Road had to start walking or die?

Have you planned that far ahead?
I try to It is a very interesting aspect of the 'story'. If they lasted over a decade in their previous location....and then died in a few months on the road...maybe moving was the wrong choice?
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:56 AM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

But even if not on that scale, everyone of us is a survivor of thousands of generations who lived in subsistence conditions with no hope of anything ever getting better.

Heck, life sucks right now for most people. And sure. tens of thousands kill themselves every year but most people go on even if there is really no hope to go on for. Its just what you do.
False examples. Sorry. Fail.

When you start with nothing, you don't suffer loss. Humans centuries ago endured hardships most today could not. But that's not the point of the novel/film.

Humans who go thru loss suffer deep psychological traumas that most cannot recover easily from. Too many of those staggering losses and people lose hope and die or commit suicide.

Analogy.

If you never had a child or wife, then not having one is not a big deal. That would be akin to an ancient person living in hardship. Hardship is all they'd have known.

By contrast, let's say you have a child and wife you deeply care about and build decades of your world around and they are suddenly brutally killed before your eyes in the worst ways imaginable. That is a serious loss, sufficient to create deep PTS scars for which a good % cannot recover.

Same with The Road. It's a psychological mind-bender because a living person like the dad who experienced the world would be so tormented and traumatized at the loss of everything wonderful and beautiful the former world had - people, animals, fauna, places, designs, buildings, engineering, conveniences, safety, medicine, doctors, clean water, easy food, and so forth.

If you think you're just going to "shrug off" a PTS event(s) of that magnitude you're kidding yourself. Ain't gonna happen without probably nearly immobilizing psychological scarring of a 1000x magnitude.

The difference from the perspective of just pure hardship, such as an ancient person suffered, is that they still had periods of optimism, joy, entertainment, hope, and a future worth looking forward to - wife, raising a family, prosperity, etc.

The Road offers none of that. The man lost his wife, and the entire world was destroyed, and he's having to raise his boy in a cruel evil violent world worried about his capture and rape or death from cannibals. The man is fraught with loss of the world and his wife, and the failure of a father unable to raise his son safely and provide. And the constant pain of what could have been...

Edited to add: I'd say perhaps the closest example to The Road would be the Jewish POWs of the Nazis. These people similarly watched their worlds disintegrate into violence and chaos and some (albeit little) hope for the future. Separation from family, murdered family, stolen or destroyed property, everything taken from them, slave labor, brutality, etc. The murder rates are mind boggling. Tens of thousands per day shots, gassed, or otherwise executed. They couldn't burn or dispose of the bodies fast enough. Under those conditions, for the strong or lucky that managed to survive, it's estimated Jews suicide rates were 26x the average, at nearly 1,500 per 100,000 people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4880554/
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:57 AM
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There is some debate on that one. Humanoids where still pretty contained to Africa back then. The evidence of a long volcanic winter isn't clear cut in Africa.

It was a HUGE event. If it happened now it would be devastating. We do have much more than sticks and rocks to deal with the situation now however.
Indeed. Not something that is cut and dried, and probably never well be considering the timespan Although something caused the genetic bottleneck so we know that humans have survived some apocalyptic events of some kind.

But another way to think about is just looking at individual families. Even if the human race didn't go through that kind of suffering, we know that our ancestors did at various times. I'm mostly Finnish, Scottish and French and everyone of those groups where enslaved, tortured, starved, etc at various points over just the last thousand years. Until very very recently living a nasty short life was the normal human condition for all of us.
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:00 AM
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When you start with nothing, you don't suffer loss. Humans centuries ago endured hardships most today could not. But that's not the point of the novel/film.
Which is exactly what I meant when I said: It depends on how invested you are in normalcy right now. Perhaps living with 'joy and hope' right now will prove to be a sever handicap in the apocalypse while the depressed, cynical hopeless people will rule the world.?

One of my favorite PA fiction books says "When the going gets weird, the weird get going".

Or perhaps some people would be able to find new sources of joy and hope even in hell.
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:03 AM
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I think some machoists here are pretty full of themselves and aren't very realistic about survivability...

And one of the most infallibly bad qualities of any human is EGO and UNREALISTIC OVERCONFIDENCE. Time and again this has been the downfall of man, from the foolishness of dictators like Hilter and Saddam, to the foolishness of the Captain and crew on the Titanic, to hundreds of famous examples in history.

News flash. YOU, yes YOU, ain't gonna be a survivor in The Road. The film/book begin with the presumption that 99% of humans died along with most animals and most man made things were destroyed.

So set your toughguy act down for the evening. It's tiresome.
So in summary you are not tough enough to even want to survive if there is
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zero hope for a return to normalcy
and the fact that some of us are, makes us like Hitler or Saddam (which is tiresome - to you).

Is that your contention?

That sounds like pretty messy logic - especially from someone who is meant to put contentions together as part of their profession.

And I also guess you weren't there when they taught the other soldiers to avoid walking on roads lest someone ambushed them........



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I try to It is a very interesting aspect of the 'story'. If they lasted over a decade in their previous location....and then died in a few months on the road...maybe moving was the wrong choice?
The kid didn't die (he went South with the veteran and his family).....and the father had cancer or something (coughing up blood) and then died of an acute infection after getting shot in the leg with an arrow (while pulling the cart down a road).

Neither of them starved.

But I am glad to hear you plan for very severe crises - many here don't (which is surprising to me).

Just remember that preps are not preps until they move from the planning to the reality stage.
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:20 AM
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Which is exactly what I meant when I said: It depends on how invested you are in normalcy right now. Perhaps living with 'joy and hope' right now will prove to be a sever handicap in the apocalypse while the depressed, cynical hopeless people will rule the world.?

One of my favorite PA fiction books says "When the going gets weird, the weird get going".

Or perhaps some people would be able to find new sources of joy and hope even in hell.
LOL.

So, I guess you're preparing for "The Road" hardship by surfing the internet, engaging in mindless entertainment banter on a website on a Saturday evening, pounding your chest as a death dealer.

Get real tough guy.

Wow the ego on people is staggering.

You and me end up in a gulag, or on "The Road" or whatever other apocalypse and we're both going to last precisely the same amount of time. Based almost entirely on luck. Your 5 chickens will make zero difference...

As much as you and a few others around here like to believe you're death dealers, sorry but the Grim Reaper ain't scared of you...
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:34 AM
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LOL.

So, I guess you're preparing for "The Road" hardship by surfing the internet, engaging in mindless entertainment banter on a website on a Saturday evening, pounding your chest as a death dealer.

Get real tough guy.

Wow the ego on people is staggering.

You and me end up in a gulag, or on "The Road" or whatever other apocalypse and we're both going to last precisely the same amount of time. Based almost entirely on luck. Your 5 chickens will make zero difference...

As much as you and a few others around here like to believe you're death dealers, sorry but the Grim Reaper ain't scared of you...
Since you ask (or perhaps speculate), what is in it for you to post here?

Is it the special boost your fragile ego gets when someone hits the thanks button on one of your political posts?

Or is it some sort of sick boost (or comfort you get about your own unpreparedness) when you convince someone who came here to learn about prepping to not prep at all?

I only ask because that is how your posts read.....and this is the survivalists boards.
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:45 AM
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Since you ask, what is in it for you to post here?

Is it the special boost your fragile ego gets when someone hits the thanks button on one of your political posts?

Or is it some sort of sick boost (or comfort you get about your own unpreparedness) when you convince someone who came here to learn about prepping to not prep at all?

I only ask because that is how your posts read.....and this is the survivalists boards.
Consider it training to provide a dose of reality or toughen you up for some real hardship in the world. My insensitive uncomfortable words make you a stronger person...

It is humorous how the toughest internet heroes are really cupcakes who cannot tolerate their world views being challenged, yet expect they'll dominate in the apocalypse.
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:00 AM
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Consider it training to provide a dose of reality or toughen you up for some real hardship in the world. My insensitive uncomfortable words make you a stronger person...

It is humorous how the toughest internet heroes are really cupcakes who cannot tolerate their world views being challenged, yet expect they'll dominate in the apocalypse.
Nope.

I am still smiling as I post this (even laughing out aloud a little).

And you didn't answer the question.....but you really should ask yourself what you are doing typing reasons (in the wee small hours of the morning) that people should just give up rather than try to survive .........on a survivalism website.

You have admitted you are a quitter and you are suggesting that anyone tougher than you is kidding themselves (or somehow like Hitler or Saddam) - odd really.....(and a clear demonstration of Godwin's Law)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

But this is not the first time your posts in the survivalism parts of this forum have devolved to the bizarre.
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:04 AM
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The whole time I was reading the book, I was smiling and thinking "will old Cormac get away with it?" And he did. He wrote a SciFi novel that won the freakin' Pulitzer Prize!
I read every review and watched all the interviews, and I doubt that anyone who read the book had ever read a SciFi novel.
The same novel has been written a hundred times in different forms, but not a single reviewer recognized the book for what it was and none of them recognized the real message of the book.
The book was about the need for humans to make meaningful contact with other humans; to be a part of something larger and more important than what one person can create by himself or herself. It showed that opening yourself to new people and new experiences can be dangerous, both emotionally and physically, but the benefits always outweigh the dangers.
The father always warned the boy that he should stay away from other people, so he could avoid the potential dangers that come with making emotional and physical connections, but each time something good happened to them, like finding food, another person was responsible for their good fortune.
When the man died, the boy was saved by his instinctive need for human contact. He became a member of a family that was a part of a small tribe, which is how society was and is created. THAT is the message of this book, but the reviewers couldn't see the forest for the trees. The same book has been written at least a hundred times, and it always had the same message. It's just that science fiction accomplishes the same things that serious literature does, but it has to create an alternate reality and use metaphor to deliver the same message.
I watched McCarthy being interviewed by Oprah, and he probably didn't say fifty words. He just sat there smiling and waiting to see if she'd ask the obvious questions about the place of science fiction in "serious" literature. She couldn't make the connection, because to most people SciFi is crap like "Star Wars," and the "Game of Thrones" garbage that the worst Scifi fantasy author in history wrote; the kind of trash that clubs you over the head with the message in the first chapter, and then keeps doing it so the gamers and morons will understand what's going on.
There's a reason that Ellison, Haldeman, Silverberg, LeGuin, Zelazny, Niven, McCaffrey and the rest of the quality SciFi authors can't get one of their novels turned into a movie: their novels don't club you over the head with a message. They make you think.
"The Road" would never have been made into a movie if it hadn't won't the Pulitzer.
The message that "The Road" gives to people on this board is that hiding in a hole and hoping everyone else dies so they won't take your stuff is a good strategy until you need a guy who can weld to repair the mounts on the motor that irrigates your crops or circulates your air, or you need someone to troubleshoot your PV setup because it's stopped generating electricity, or you need someone with medical knowledge to deliver the next generation.
If you study human history, you'll find that there were most likely times when humanity was hanging on by a thread, but since people learned that cultivating crops was much more efficient than wandering around gathering crops, and that raising animals was much more efficient than chasing them for a week and then fighting lions to keep your kill, humanity has had ups and downs, but overall, mo' people has meant mo' security.
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:13 AM
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LOL.

So, I guess you're preparing for "The Road" hardship by surfing the internet, engaging in mindless entertainment banter on a website on a Saturday evening, pounding your chest as a death dealer.

Get real tough guy.

Wow the ego on people is staggering.

You and me end up in a gulag, or on "The Road" or whatever other apocalypse and we're both going to last precisely the same amount of time. Based almost entirely on luck. Your 5 chickens will make zero difference...

As much as you and a few others around here like to believe you're death dealers, sorry but the Grim Reaper ain't scared of you...
Nothing you just said has anything to do with what I was saying. I think you have completely missed my point.

It's not about me being 'tough', it's that I don't seem to expect as much out of life as you do, and so if life doesn't live up that it won't be such a blow as it seems you are saying it would be to you.

It has absolutely nothing to do with being a death dealer (who here was even talking about that anyway besides you?)

The things you are seem so afraid of losing are largely things I've never had. I don't think this makes me tough...but I do think its kind of pathetic that someone who lives a much better life than I do now would think life not worth living just because they lose happiness and hope. That sounds like some serious entitled crap to me. What you think the world owes you a happy life and so if you can't have that you're just going to give up?

What the hell do you even know about suicide and death anyway? You ever wash brains off the back porch after the cops wife shot herself in the head hoping to get it done before the six kids in sleeping in the house wake up? I guess she made the right choice because life wasn't just a big party right?

Joy and hope???....WTF world do you think you are living in? Joy and hope is not the name of the game. What the hell are you doing on this thread? Just bragging about how much you like your life?
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:46 AM
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Interesting movie. A little too tough, though.

I don't think we can be prepared for everything. It used to be my impulse, but years of pondering survivalism and apocalypse have narrowed what I'm trying to do, a little.

Even for those who plan ahead, there's only so much you can do, basically. And your budget effects it, also.

Beyond that, you can just say that there are preps that apply to every scenario, like food and water. Even though I'm not really focused on the most devastating scenarios, like a meteor, nuclear war, or a pandemic, a lot of my preps would apply to them. If something very severe like that happened, I'd still try to survive for as long as I could. I'd still be better prepared than 99% of people.

As far as living nomadically, I think that was just in there because A) it's a trope because of The Road Warrior, Thunderdome, The Stand, and The Ultimate Warrior with Yul Brynner, and B) the unprepared think about survivalism, too, and moving is what they can imagine doing, since they don't have a reason-- like supplies or fortifications-- for staying in one place. Then if they ever become survivalists, they probably tend to become a little more interested in stories about how prepared people would do, instead of nomads. But the nomad story still has cool things about it--- it will always have some appeal.

Living nomadically makes a lot less sense than being prepared. But if you had more reason to be a nomad than to be settled--- if you had absolutely nothing where you were--- it's what you'd do. You'd have little chance of surviving, but your only recourse would be to try to luck out. Again, from the movies, it's like 28 Days Later, where they decide the London housing project apartment isn't really a great refuge, and that the army base sounds like a better opportunity.

Some things about The Road were good. For me, the main practical points were what a hard time the main character has with his wife and his son. It seems like he hasn't figured them out enough or got them to understand survivalism enough, and they're more like burdens to him than they should be. They're kind of both just rebelling against him. Kind of shows you that you have to figure out how to get along with people really well, and you have to try to pick the right team. You have to get people working for you, and not against you.

The movie also has its typical Hollywood errors that show that it wasn't really made by survivalists. I thought that drinking the scavenged soda was kind of bad. They're supposed to be a few years into the disaster, IIRC, so I don't think there would be much chance that they could scavenge an unopened can of soda from a wrecked building, and that it would still be good.

Kind of just seems like wishful thinking that you can live that way. Seems like it would have been better to show him getting some other sort of food.
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Old 06-16-2019, 04:52 AM
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Nothing you just said has anything to do with what I was saying. I think you have completely missed my point.

It's not about me being 'tough', it's that I don't seem to expect as much out of life as you do, and so if life doesn't live up that it won't be such a blow as it seems you are saying it would be to you.

It has absolutely nothing to do with being a death dealer (who here was even talking about that anyway besides you?)

The things you are seem so afraid of losing are largely things I've never had. I don't think this makes me tough...but I do think its kind of pathetic that someone who lives a much better life than I do now would think life not worth living just because they lose happiness and hope. That sounds like some serious entitled crap to me. What you think the world owes you a happy life and so if you can't have that you're just going to give up?

What the hell do you even know about suicide and death anyway? You ever wash brains off the back porch after the cops wife shot herself in the head hoping to get it done before the six kids in sleeping in the house wake up? I guess she made the right choice because life wasn't just a big party right?

Joy and hope???....WTF world do you think you are living in? Joy and hope is not the name of the game. What the hell are you doing on this thread? Just bragging about how much you like your life?
False again.

I'm almost certain I've lived through, endured, and survived more devastating loses, setbacks, and hardships than you or many on this forum...

It has made me very strong.

But I also understand reality and psychology.

Cleaning up brains of a dead stranger is meaningless. If that upsets you, you are disillusioned about real survival under real life trials.

I have been there and done that, repeatedly.
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