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Old 06-07-2019, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post

I haven't thought of everything... But I've tried.
I'm not ready for everything... But I'm working on it.
The first step is surviving the first problems you will face, not the ones that will hit you 100 days in, or 5 or 10 years in.
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Old 06-07-2019, 02:48 AM
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Reading about how mosquitoes affected the construction of the Panama Canal gives an idea of how the failure of flood control could affect the spread of malaria and yellow fever, especially in the southern US. The first can make you too weak to work and the second can kill you. One type of mossie breeds in stagnant water and the other breeds in clear water, so you're in danger of death or serious disability either way.
Imagine millions of people from Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc. flooding into areas where there's a hard freeze to kill off the vermin.
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:53 AM
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I've done some thinking for our area and the four major threats:

1. Fires. This will be a continual threat and avoiding flammable materials around your home, making firebreaks, and eventually going back to the old "fire watch towers" may be needed.

2. Flood controls. While I'm nowhere near a flood zone, dam failures, disruptions in manmade drainage, etc. will lead to far more flooding and a lot more standing water which will exponentially increase the insect-vector threats and the diseases they can transmit.

3. Sanitation and garbage management. This is my biggest concern. Having seen enough third-world countries with poor sanitation management, garbage piles will build up and spill into the streets, affect water sources, attract rodents and other feral animals that are often associated as disease carriers, etc. If those piles catch fire, the air quality will be deadly. Urban areas will be the worst, but even sub-urban and rural areas will be affected.

4. Population density. Most unprepared will consolidate if there's any leadership that promises assistance. Simply for protection, many small, crowded towns will pop up and these will be hotspots for many of the diseases that will spread rapidly. While trade will be important, having the ability to limit exposure and contact will be critical.

Interesting topic; one I think 90% of the population won't have to worry about because they likely won't make it to the point of concern.

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Old 06-07-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharkbait View Post
****ing Texans.....
Thanks for ruining my evening.
Although a tiger skin rug would go with my new coffee table.....
Hey!!! **** you, buddy. I need this Tiger

How else am I going to start my kingdom after it all goes down?
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:58 AM
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I still have a human-powered reel lawnmower... I think the lawn looks better and I can cut as fast as I can run with it (it's possible to outrun a power mower's ability to cut because the blades are in a horizontal plane and only go so fast). As long as I keep the blades sharp and maintained, the grass can be kept under control, no matter how long SHTF. Bonus... no gas, no fumes, very little noise, good exercise...

Also have old fashioned edger, clippers, shovels, rakes, rollers, wheelbarrow, carts, brooms, sprayers, etc.

Having human powered implements may give one a means to earn a living if the pre-SHTF job goes bye-bye. Or at least earn some good will with the neighborhood or bartering power, while at the same time providing a bigger low-pest buffer around your home.

And if a bag catcher is used, the clippings can go in compost piles to help grow veggies
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim from 28DaysLater View Post
The first step is surviving the first problems you will face, not the ones that will hit you 100 days in, or 5 or 10 years in.
Absolutely.

But 100 days, 5 or 10 years of planning and preparation can make a disaster a minor issue.

You don't start Forrest fire prep when the flames are coming.
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Old 06-07-2019, 03:00 PM
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OP, yes you are right. Life after a teotwawki event will SUCK!.

Until some viable government reforms I don't see much in the way that the average person could impact your concerns on anything beyond a very localized level.

You can clean up your yard but not the thousands of empty yards.
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Old 06-07-2019, 07:46 PM
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Hey!!! *** you, buddy. I need this Tiger

How else am I going to start my kingdom after it all goes down?
You best keep that bitch East of the Pecos or I'm getting a new rug.😁
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Old 06-07-2019, 07:56 PM
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Well.....
Here in the Four Corners with our low population and low rainfall, I don't really see a lot of problems that Easterners and urbanites will have to deal with.
Just thinking of the ticks and skeeters East of I-35 gives me the shivers, not to mention all the dazzling urbanites.
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by randolphrowzeebragg View Post
.
Imagine millions of people from Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc. flooding into areas where there's a hard freeze to kill off the vermin.
Ummmm.......
I grew up in Wisconsin.
Speaking from personal experience, Hard freezes only kill off mosquitos temporarily.
When it's -26 ticks and mosquitos don't seem too bad,spend a few bucks and put up some screens, you know they'll be back come spring.
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:31 PM
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Alaska, as well as several other northern areas, have swarms of no-see-ums and a couple of other types of biting flying bugs during certain parts of the year. They can be so bad that in times past people have committed suicide because it was so overwhelming.

While I agree with the OP that there will need to be some significant clean-up, especially around any areas where there will be concentrations of survivors, that clean-up will never be enough to eliminate the problems that are trying to be addressed.

We cannot make mosquitos, no-see-ums, mice, rats, flies, and other pests go away. We can keep them down in small areas but never eliminate them outside those areas.

That means, at least to me, that while significant planning and effort should go into the clean-up efforts, almost as much should go into the means to deal with the problems directly. During the clean-up, as well as after, when the problems that could not be eliminated encroach our living areas.

That, for the flying insects of several types, is no-see-um netting. I have half a dozen head nets that are no-see-um netting. Since I pretty much never wear short sleeves, shorts, sandals, flip-flops, go without socks, or otherwise expose very much of my skin, I usually do not have a problem with such things.

I also blouse my boots when I am in areas with chiggers and ticks, which go a long way to protecting me from them getting onto my skin. And I still do a tick check at least once a day in tick country, and usually two or three times. I have tick removers, just in case one does manage to get its head in my skin.

My field clothing is protected with permethrin, and I use skin lotions and essential oils for prevention as well as treatment if I do get chigger bites.

Then there are the various medical treatments for the serious outcomes of diseases. I would not survive a few of them that really cannot be treated effectively, even with modern scientific methods. That is the case with everything, however. If you are at ground zero of an asteroid impact, you are not going to make it.

So, once more, it is not either/or. It is both. We will have to clean-up and we will have to protect ourselves directly. If those both fail, we go to treatments.

Just my further opinion.
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:13 PM
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Mosquitoes where the reason I left Alaska. -60 is nothing compared to the misery of +60 up there.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Absolutely.

But 100 days, 5 or 10 years of planning and preparation can make a disaster a minor issue.

You don't start Forrest fire prep when the flames are coming.
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
OP, yes you are right. Life after a teotwawki event will SUCK!

Until some viable government reforms I don't see much in the way that the average person could impact your concerns on anything beyond a very localized fYou can clean up your yard but not the thousands of empty yards.
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Originally Posted by Sharkbait View Post
Ummmm.......
I grew up in Wisconsin.
Speaking from personal experience, Hard freezes only kill off mosquitos temporarily.
When it's -26 ticks and mosquitos don't seem too bad,spend a few bucks and put up some screens, you know they'll be back come spring.
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Mosquitoes where the reason I left Alaska. -60 is nothing compared to the misery of +60 up there.

In Minnesota, the mosquitoes get so big that two can carry off a small child The state of 40,000 mosquito hatcheries

*assuming* yards in a city or suburban area averaging approximately 100 x 200 feet, cutting the grass for 3 yards in a row and the 3 behind them, and the 3 across the street, wouldn't be difficult, even with a reel mower. If every 3rd or 4th house (or a house in the group of 9 yards) had implements and did about 9 yards, a fairly decent sized area could be maintained adequately by 1 efficient, energetic person per implement house, although having a second person would make things go a lot faster (your child/your teen as an apprentice). That's not too much area for snow removal, either

A garlic spray on the yard is effective for mosquito, fly, tick, and flea control, and isn't harmful to the bees, butterflies, hummingbirds, etc. you need as pollinators for veggies, fruit, flowers, etc.

Add in common sense housekeeping, sanitation, and water control...

If you work with your neighbors, life after SHTF could be OK, even though a lot of things might have changed. One of them might be new friendships with neighbors you don't even bother waving to these days. Of course, this would be a lot easier to do if you at least got to know them now, even if it isn't for prepping. Maybe just a monthly pot luck or get together in someone's back yard. Informal and friendly. Maybe a small block party once or twice a year...
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:49 AM
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We don't have to worry about Ebola.

We already have the plague [as in Black Death in the Middle Ages] and Hanta disease endemic in the USA. No more government treatment and control methods. And hungry people ready to eat anything -- including the rodentia that carry such. And by neglect create more habitat for them to live in.

Rabies is a real threat. Not just from feral dogs/cats. But a large proportion of other critters. And hungry people looking for anything to eat and not caring if cuts on their hands are exposed to rabid salvia, blood, etc. of whatever they are planning to eat.

Hunger might actually cut back on the spread of rabies initially. Folks may eat enough dogs, raccoons [some of whom get rabies vaccine in special food left for them], coyotes, bats, cats, etc. in the beginning that the wild/feral animal population is so spread out that they can't spread it.

New York City used to get bouts of Yellow fever! Not to mention cities to the south of it. Who cares about zika when you might catch Yellow fever?

Toss in all the 'normal' childhood diseases in a post-any-vaccine world situation. Measles and chicken pox are as bad for fetuses as zika. Scarlet fever. Polio???? Mumps. etc.

Lyme disease. West Nile. Various enchepalitises. Dengue fever. MALARIA.

And it won't matter if you keep 'your' area in order. The wind can blow mosqutios miles. And people will travel about. How long will it take to get enough goats, sheep, cattle, horses to keep the grass trimmed down in your county?

The native Americans regularly burned their under-story growth. If some of their dwellings burned down -- no biggie they just built more. But you/me don't want our nice concrete block home, much less barn, much less fences, burned down.

They have to clean the storm drains regularly down here [they try to do most before hurricane season]. All sorts of garbage. Who is going to do that Post WHATEVER?
Mosquito heaven. Those drains will be sewers [animal and human waste] which will back up in occupied areas spreading more disease once they are blocked and/or during heavy rain events.

Re: Rabies. That was one of the first things to get a vaccine/cure for. Might be one of the first things that get 're-discovered'.

Fire has always been used in war. Think Samson and those foxes. Pyromanics have also always been with us. And there will probably be more mental issues post-WHATEVER.
Your right go look at some old cemeteries. Many died from drinking foul water and poor hygiene.
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
Alaska, as well as several other northern areas, have swarms of no-see-ums and a couple of other types of biting flying bugs during certain parts of the year. They can be so bad that in times past people have committed suicide because it was so overwhelming.

While I agree with the OP that there will need to be some significant clean-up, especially around any areas where there will be concentrations of survivors, that clean-up will never be enough to eliminate the problems that are trying to be addressed.

We cannot make mosquitos, no-see-ums, mice, rats, flies, and other pests go away. We can keep them down in small areas but never eliminate them outside those areas.

That means, at least to me, that while significant planning and effort should go into the clean-up efforts, almost as much should go into the means to deal with the problems directly. During the clean-up, as well as after, when the problems that could not be eliminated encroach our living areas.

That, for the flying insects of several types, is no-see-um netting. I have half a dozen head nets that are no-see-um netting. Since I pretty much never wear short sleeves, shorts, sandals, flip-flops, go without socks, or otherwise expose very much of my skin, I usually do not have a problem with such things.

I also blouse my boots when I am in areas with chiggers and ticks, which go a long way to protecting me from them getting onto my skin. And I still do a tick check at least once a day in tick country, and usually two or three times. I have tick removers, just in case one does manage to get its head in my skin.

My field clothing is protected with permethrin, and I use skin lotions and essential oils for prevention as well as treatment if I do get chigger bites.

Then there are the various medical treatments for the serious outcomes of diseases. I would not survive a few of them that really cannot be treated effectively, even with modern scientific methods. That is the case with everything, however. If you are at ground zero of an asteroid impact, you are not going to make it.

So, once more, it is not either/or. It is both. We will have to clean-up and we will have to protect ourselves directly. If those both fail, we go to treatments.

Just my further opinion.
Good points Jerry. We live in AR. and it is a constant battle with chiggers, seed ticks, and regular ticks on people and pets. Also poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac. I try to keep them back from buildings etc by constant grass cutting, and applications of insecticide, then always wear long pants, real shoes, with socks pulled over pant legs. Always trying to disrupt their habitats. Including snakes habitat. We have guinea's running around also eating bugs. The grass cutting well back from our buildings also helps in fire prevention. Now what happens in shtf when I can no longer get insecticides and spare the gas for riding lawn mowers and weed whackers. I sometimes wonder how the heck our forefathers stood the pestilence of these varmints. Sleeping on the ground as they migrated west etc. Must have been thick skinned tough people.
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:13 AM
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Good points Jerry. We live in AR. and it is a constant battle with chiggers, seed ticks, and regular ticks on people and pets. Also poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac. I try to keep them back from buildings etc by constant grass cutting, and applications of insecticide, then always wear long pants, real shoes, with socks pulled over pant legs. Always trying to disrupt their habitats. Including snakes habitat. We have guinea's running around also eating bugs. The grass cutting well back from our buildings also helps in fire prevention. Now what happens in shtf when I can no longer get insecticides and spare the gas for riding lawn mowers and weed whackers. I sometimes wonder how the heck our forefathers stood the pestilence of these varmints. Sleeping on the ground as they migrated west etc. Must have been thick skinned tough people.
It's hard for me to imagine living like that. You're tougher than me.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:01 AM
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In Minnesota, the mosquitoes get so big that two can carry off a small child The state of 40,000 mosquito hatcheries

*assuming* yards in a city or suburban area averaging approximately 100 x 200 feet, cutting the grass for 3 yards in a row and the 3 behind them, and the 3 across the street, wouldn't be difficult, even with a reel mower. If every 3rd or 4th house (or a house in the group of 9 yards) had implements and did about 9 yards, a fairly decent sized area could be maintained adequately by 1 efficient, energetic person per implement house, although having a second person would make things go a lot faster (your child/your teen as an apprentice). That's not too much area for snow removal, either

A garlic spray on the yard is effective for mosquito, fly, tick, and flea control, and isn't harmful to the bees, butterflies, hummingbirds, etc. you need as pollinators for veggies, fruit, flowers, etc.

Add in common sense housekeeping, sanitation, and water control...

If you work with your neighbors, life after SHTF could be OK, even though a lot of things might have changed. One of them might be new friendships with neighbors you don't even bother waving to these days. Of course, this would be a lot easier to do if you at least got to know them now, even if it isn't for prepping. Maybe just a monthly pot luck or get together in someone's back yard. Informal and friendly. Maybe a small block party once or twice a year...
First off, skeeters and other vermin can come from QUITE a distance away.

You assume the population density is still high enough in your apparently suburban neighborhood (after food/etc stops getting delivered) that people will be able to take care of just a few yards each.

That they have the strength and spare calories to do so and won't be needed somewhere else? For security, foraging, gardening, etc.

You grow enough garlic and can produce enough oil from it to cover miles of area?

Do you or anyone you know own a NON POWERED mower? weed cutter? hedge trimmer?
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:39 PM
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Mosquitoes where the reason I left Alaska. -60 is nothing compared to the misery of +60 up there.
Those expensive mosquito magnets work well in controlling the pests in my AO, but they are finicky and would not work long if SHTF. The no see ums arent a problem where Im at, but I spent a week for subsistence in Dillingham two years ago and they drove me almost crazy.
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Old 06-08-2019, 01:15 PM
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First off, skeeters and other vermin can come from QUITE a distance away.

You assume the population density is still high enough in your apparently suburban neighborhood (after food/etc stops getting delivered) that people will be able to take care of just a few yards each.

That they have the strength and spare calories to do so and won't be needed somewhere else? For security, foraging, gardening, etc.

You grow enough garlic and can produce enough oil from it to cover miles of area?

Do you or anyone you know own a NON POWERED mower? weed cutter? hedge trimmer?

I own (and use) all of these items, as noted in my post. Where I used to live, everyone else in the area did, as well. Another area I used to live in, about 4 of us on the block did. When I grew up, power mowers were the exception, not the norm, and no one had power hedge clippers, yard vacs, weed eaters, etc. No one had snow blowers, either. I remember the first one in the neighborhood was on the block over, and everyone hated it because it was noisy at 5 am. If there was a big snowstorm, we'd all get out and shovel the streets and alley because it would be 2-3 days before the plows would come through. I have no idea what lawn and snow equipment the yard services had because no one in my neighborhood had one. If someone didn't want to cut the lawn/shovel/etc., or couldn't, he/she paid a kid in the neighborhood to do it. Or a neighbor would just do it to help.

At work, I have seen first-hand (many times) the difference that one cut lawn makes in the pests getting into the house on that property. I have also seen first hand the difference cutting the adjacent lawns to those examples. This is one big reason why municipalities cut vacant lots and lawns of vacant houses and enforce sanitation standards, including picking up dog poop, not leaving animal carcasses out to rot, cutting tall grass, no tires left laying around, picking up the trash, no standing water, etc.

Just reducing the rodent population, especially rats, is a great step up. Ditto for roaches, ants, flies...

Garlic is prolific and easy to grow, and it doesn't really take an unreasonable amount to treat a lawn. Just growing it helps some. If everyone cooperates, or garlic is planted in the vacant properties...

Keeping one's own property, including the house, clean and picked up, well maintained, and the garbage taken out every day, makes a huge difference. BTW, I also own a human powered (non powered) sweeper, and shoes/boots coming off at entry to the house makes a huge difference in cleanliness and the time/effort required to keep the house clean. And wiping dog paws/fur.

Desert/similar type landscaping, well-thought-out garden and plant/tree types and locations, gravel in strategic locations, including the perimeter of the house and garage, and effective drainage can make a huge difference.

Planning and doing now makes life more pleasant/healthy now, and may save your life if major/long-term SHTF.
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Old 06-08-2019, 02:18 PM
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The worst thing preppers probably can do is get discouraged. The fewer well-prepared people there are around when SHTF, the worse all there problems are going to be.

I'm just remembering this news story of this older prepper who gave all his stuff away to the hurricane victims in Puerto Rico, and how disappointed I was in that guy.

I've just been a little concerned with surviving, and yet then being the one who suggests to everyone else that now we have to mow all the grass-- and that maybe they won't like it. The other shoe has to fall after we survive the famine, or epidemic, or whatever it might be.

Here's an article about coyotes. I was going to say this was part of the problem, but now I'm wondering if we're going to be better off with them keeping the rodent population down. Maybe they're part of the solution. Maybe the post-SHTF world needs too many coyotes for a while.

Then maybe as wolves rebound, and limit the coyotes, other anti-rodent species will rebound, like eagles.
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