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Old 05-31-2019, 04:17 PM
txprep txprep is offline
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At one time, it was an impressive feat. Now, it seems so much more narcissistic than anything.

Cost to summit Everest exceeds $50,000. FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS! I've even read books (K2 and Into Thin Air) that explains the real costs are 6 figure dollar amounts. And odds are good you're going to lose body parts to frostbite, and odds of death are relatively high as well...

One could literally change a person's life with that money. Show up at a poor families house and pay off their home, or buy them groceries for 10 years, etc.

If you can't find something more altruistic do throw your money at, I give zero ***** about your fate on Everest.

About the only worst rich people are big game hunters who are the scum of the earth.
big game hunters who pay big dollars to hunt are actually saving animals because they are effectively making economically viable to preserve them.

there is a great documentary called "trophy" which explains this.
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Old 05-31-2019, 04:20 PM
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I totally agree. And while I think a rich fool is free to go and try Everest and die..I agree that much better things could be done. If I were a multi-millionaire, I'd want to pick say a family a year and pay off their home, maybe cars too. Giving a family property that they could use to say rent while they buy another home would put them on the path of generational wealth and give them the opportunity to build wealth. I think that would be very cool. Of course, what they do with that and if they fail to build going forward would be completely on them. I think that's one effective way to build families up though.

For Everest...it's becoming silly. A ton of rich people going up there without the training and thinking that the guides will basically get them to the top. I read an article where it was talking about people on the way down coming across other people ascending who have collapsed and run out of oxygen. They don't help..they clutch their own oxygen closer and move on. Because to give the O2 to someone else, means you may not have it and die yourself. Fools dying on Everest is yes, their own business. It's not a good thing though and I agree people could definitely put their resources to better use. They won't though, and that's part of why we have the world we have today.
One article said that people leave bottles for the way down and have had them stolen by people who ran out. Doing that is essentially killing someone else.
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Old 05-31-2019, 04:22 PM
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Yup. Let's say you're a 10$ millionaire. You're probably earning 10% interest on your 10 million annually, or about a million per year on interest and you don't even have to get out of bed to do it.

Every year, you could just pick 10 struggling middle class families, open a trust for them, and put in $100,000 with a $5000 per year payout to help them get ahead. It's not enough to get irresponsible with, but it's enough to get ahead on bills, buy a new car, etc. and that money would last 20 years... Could even put a clause that if they are convicted of any crimes they lose the trust.

The millionaire would never feel the lost money, but would in a few decades lift scores of families out of poverty in a responsible fashion.

But let's bring it back to the Everest deal. Instead of blowing $100,000 on a dumb Everest climb, pick 10 families and put $10,000 in trusts for each of them, payable out to even $500 per year for 20 years. That extra money can mean the difference for lower-middle class between survival and homelessness...

Oh well they gotta get their selfie on Everest...
You love to tell other people what they should do with their money. Are you donating 10% of your income to help someone pay off a house or to not become homeless?

Liberals always claim they dont because it would just be a drop in the bucket or they dont have enough money to spare. There is always someone poorer than you that is able to live on half of what you spend. So half of your spending is on luxuries.
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Old 05-31-2019, 04:38 PM
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One article said that people leave bottles for the way down and have had them stolen by people who ran out. Doing that is essentially killing someone else.
The continued lie of those that like to murder big game for their own narcisistic reasons to consume.

It's pretty twisted logic to KILL endangered or threatened animals of which only a few or small % remain, in order to allegedly "save" them. It's a lie.

By analogy, how about we start killing Bald Eagles and Condors to "save" them. What a dumb argument. No, to save them you make it illegal and heavily punished for killing them.

Big game "hunters" have killed the last few Rhinos, and decimated Elephants to a few hundred thousand for some ten million in a single century.

If it TRULY was a love of the animals, they'd simply stop killing them and donate the money altruistically to save them. Lying is simply a disgusting cover to keep up a twisted fantasy of killing them for trophies.


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You love to tell other people what they should do with their money. Are you donating 10% of your income to help someone pay off a house or to not become homeless?

Liberals always claim they dont because it would just be a drop in the bucket or they dont have enough money to spare. There is always someone poorer than you that is able to live on half of what you spend. So half of your spending is on luxuries.
I'm a conservative, thanks. I'm also extraordinarily generous with my resources, more so by a % than probably extremely rich folks paying for big game safaris or climbing Everest. And my "footprint" on this earth is almost certainly better and more contributory than those same selfish ***holes spending truckloads of money for narcissism. Meanwhile, humans live in squalor and die from starvation, dehydration, and lack of access to medicine, and beautiful animals in the Sahara are slaughtered for their paws or tusks.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:16 PM
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So leadcounsel is an anti hunter, good to know.

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Old 05-31-2019, 08:31 PM
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leadcounsel, you're assuming that your point-of-view is correct. For the moment, leave endangered species aside. Learn about wildlife conservation in general through your state's wildlife and fisheries department. There are many practices that are counter-intuitive, but you need to first pick up on the idea that culling some wildlife (through hunting) can have overall beneficial effects on the species. Once you get this concept, it's not as difficult to understand how hunting endangered species can be helpful.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:48 PM
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So leadcounsel is an anti hunter, good to know.

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I'm pro hunter. Hunting involves skill, ethics, respect for their hunt, and use the carcass for food.

I'm anti- ***hole. Nothing about sport killing relates to hunting. It's pure depraved evil.

There's nothing "hunting" about big game poachers. They pay a guide to walk you into an area where a family of intelligent animals are gathering, and shoot one with an elephant gun. They deplete an important struggling species of one critical member. And then like a jackwagon pose with some pride at the "achievement." It's disgusting. Like this ***clown who has personally killed 5000 elephants and more. There's nothing sporting about that. It's selfish bloodlust.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/hunter...t_2872652.html

Poetic justice is when one of them stomps or kills the psuedo tough guys? Dunno but I have zero sympathy.

Poacher killed by elephant and eaten by lions
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/07/w...ino-lions.html

Trophy poacher gored by Buffalo and killed
https://allthatsinteresting.com/clau...led-by-buffalo

Trophy poacher gored by buffalo
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-to-shoot.html
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:56 PM
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leadcounsel, you're assuming that your point-of-view is correct. For the moment, leave endangered species aside. Learn about wildlife conservation in general through your state's wildlife and fisheries department. There are many practices that are counter-intuitive, but you need to first pick up on the idea that culling some wildlife (through hunting) can have overall beneficial effects on the species. Once you get this concept, it's not as difficult to understand how hunting endangered species can be helpful.
You're comparing deer or pheasant or similar harvesting seasons to something entirely different. Deer are always in danger of overpopulation and car-deer highway accidents, or wasting diseases, etc. and these abundant animals must be culled to prevent overpopulation, starving, diseases, etc.

Totally different than sport hunting and collecting animal parts for trophies is and has been a thing for a century in Africa. I think it's safe to say it's been a dismal failure at preserving wildlife and big game.

In just a few decades or perhaps a century, the numbers of great apes, elephants, big cats, rhinos and others have been cut by between 90-99% from highs a century ago. In my lifetime, selfish ***holes who kill them for sport will likely eradicate great apes, elephants, rhinos, big cats, etc. from the earth.

Not a success story. You'd have to be blind or daft to think killing 90-99% of a species thru hunting is "successful" at preserving them.

The real way to save these is hard penalties for killing one or possessing their body parts. Impose a life sentence or death sentence type penalties for the offender. Impose tough international sanctions against ivory and rhino horne trades. Much progress has been done, but more needs to be done.

ZERO sport poaching. ZERO. None. Nada. Just like whaling. Or killing bald eagles (even possession of feathers is a federal crime) or condors. Illegal.

The US could aid in using military, drone, and satellite technology to protect these herds.

I cannot fathom the level of human depravity to sit there and watch a breathtaking gorgeous herd of elephants, or a gorgeous leopard, or a rare rhino, and lust to cause it pain and death. WTF is wrong with people who think this way? Depravity is the only word that I can associate with such behavior.
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
You're comparing deer or pheasant or similar harvesting seasons to something entirely different. Deer are always in danger of overpopulation and car-deer highway accidents, or wasting diseases, etc. and these abundant animals must be culled to prevent overpopulation, starving, diseases, etc.

Totally different than sport hunting and collecting animal parts for trophies is and has been a thing for a century in Africa. I think it's safe to say it's been a dismal failure at preserving wildlife and big game.

In just a few decades or perhaps a century, the numbers of great apes, elephants, big cats, rhinos and others have been cut by between 90-99% from highs a century ago. In my lifetime, selfish ***holes who kill them for sport will likely eradicate great apes, elephants, rhinos, big cats, etc. from the earth.

Not a success story. You'd have to be blind or daft to think killing 90-99% of a species thru hunting is "successful" at preserving them.

The real way to save these is hard penalties for killing one or possessing their body parts. Impose a life sentence or death sentence type penalties for the offender. Impose tough international sanctions against ivory and rhino horne trades. Much progress has been done, but more needs to be done.

ZERO sport poaching. ZERO. None. Nada. Just like whaling. Or killing bald eagles (even possession of feathers is a federal crime) or condors. Illegal.

The US could aid in using military, drone, and satellite technology to protect these herds.

I cannot fathom the level of human depravity to sit there and watch a breathtaking gorgeous herd of elephants, or a gorgeous leopard, or a rare rhino, and lust to cause it pain and death. WTF is wrong with people who think this way? Depravity is the only word that I can associate with such behavior.
That's just like the idiot argument people make about canned lion hunting. It's "saving the species." BS. If that were the case, the wild lion populations would be plummeting. No, people are just damn greedy. Why pay to shoot one lion in an enclosure when you could do two? Same for the other endangered species. The "hunting is preservation" argument is completely ignorant when it comes to them.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:09 PM
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You're comparing deer or pheasant or similar harvesting seasons to something entirely different. Deer are always in danger of overpopulation and car-deer highway accidents, or wasting diseases, etc. and these abundant animals must be culled to prevent overpopulation, starving, diseases, etc.

Totally different than sport hunting and collecting animal parts for trophies is and has been a thing for a century in Africa. I think it's safe to say it's been a dismal failure at preserving wildlife and big game.

In just a few decades or perhaps a century, the numbers of great apes, elephants, big cats, rhinos and others have been cut by between 90-99% from highs a century ago. In my lifetime, selfish ***holes who kill them for sport will likely eradicate great apes, elephants, rhinos, big cats, etc. from the earth.

Not a success story. You'd have to be blind or daft to think killing 90-99% of a species thru hunting is "successful" at preserving them.

The real way to save these is hard penalties for killing one or possessing their body parts. Impose a life sentence or death sentence type penalties for the offender. Impose tough international sanctions against ivory and rhino horne trades. Much progress has been done, but more needs to be done.

ZERO sport poaching. ZERO. None. Nada. Just like whaling. Or killing bald eagles (even possession of feathers is a federal crime) or condors. Illegal.

The US could aid in using military, drone, and satellite technology to protect these herds.

I cannot fathom the level of human depravity to sit there and watch a breathtaking gorgeous herd of elephants, or a gorgeous leopard, or a rare rhino, and lust to cause it pain and death. WTF is wrong with people who think this way? Depravity is the only word that I can associate with such behavior.
I think you're painting with a really wide brush. Hunting and poaching are two different things. My comments are strictly with regards to legal hunting (following all laws, regulations, permits, etc.).

Hypothetical here -- suppose that the wildlife biologists in one of the African countries determine that there are 1 or 2 specific animals in the group that need to be culled. Assume that there are no bribes, corruption, misrepresentation, etc. Are you saying that there can be no rationale whatsoever for following expert guidance from wildlife biologists to issue a very limited number of permits to kill specific animals from the herd? Suppose the permit costs $15,000 and that money goes towards wildlife preservation of the remaining herd. I'm saying that I can imagine where such a scenario CAN be a good move. I'm not saying that all big game hunting in Africa is this way, nor am I trying to condone all big game trophy hunting in Africa.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:22 PM
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I'm pro hunter. Hunting involves skill, ethics, respect for their hunt, and use the carcass for food.

I'm anti- ***hole. Nothing about sport killing relates to hunting. It's pure depraved evil.

There's nothing "hunting" about big game poachers. They pay a guide to walk you into an area where a family of intelligent animals are gathering, and shoot one with an elephant gun. They deplete an important struggling species of one critical member. And then like a jackwagon pose with some pride at the "achievement." It's disgusting. Like this ***clown who has personally killed 5000 elephants and more. There's nothing sporting about that. It's selfish bloodlust.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/hunter...t_2872652.html

Poetic justice is when one of them stomps or kills the psuedo tough guys? Dunno but I have zero sympathy.

Poacher killed by elephant and eaten by lions
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/07/w...ino-lions.html

Trophy poacher gored by Buffalo and killed
https://allthatsinteresting.com/clau...led-by-buffalo

Trophy poacher gored by buffalo
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-to-shoot.html
Well said.

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Old 05-31-2019, 11:03 PM
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I think you're painting with a really wide brush. Hunting and poaching are two different things. My comments are strictly with regards to legal hunting (following all laws, regulations, permits, etc.).

Hypothetical here -- suppose that the wildlife biologists in one of the African countries determine that there are 1 or 2 specific animals in the group that need to be culled. Assume that there are no bribes, corruption, misrepresentation, etc. Are you saying that there can be no rationale whatsoever for following expert guidance from wildlife biologists to issue a very limited number of permits to kill specific animals from the herd? Suppose the permit costs $15,000 and that money goes towards wildlife preservation of the remaining herd. I'm saying that I can imagine where such a scenario CAN be a good move. I'm not saying that all big game hunting in Africa is this way, nor am I trying to condone all big game trophy hunting in Africa.
And you're not being realistic or providing reality. The reality is that hunting and poaching legal or not has decimated big cats, elephants, primates, rhinos, giraffes, and anything that can walk or breath basically. None of these need to be "culled." They need immediate strong PROTECTION. Some jackhole just killed 1 of the last few thousand rhinos a few years ago. Paid like a 1/3 $ million to do it.

The reality is these poor short sighted nations are selling permits at the expense of the survival of the species to profit now before poachers kill them all. They are inept or unable to protect them. They lose 60 to poaching, and sell 5 more permits. The net loss is 65 to that. Plus a high natural mortality rate. How long can this last before they are totally gone? A decade or two?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ersial-auction

"There are only an estimated 4,000 to 5,000 black rhinos living in the wild," Mark Memmott wrote for the Two-Way last year. "Namibian authorities issue five kill permits per year."

"Namibia is facing a surge in poaching last week, the country's New Era newspaper said that 60 rhinos have been poached so far in 2015, leading Namibia's environmental ministry to double its reward for information about the killings."

""I am deeply saddened, disappointed and incredulous that he sees this mission as contributing to the survival of endangered black rhinos," said the International Fund for Animal Welfare's Jeff Flocken. "If you pay to take a human life and give to humanitarian causes, it does not make you a humanitarian. And paying money to kill one of the last iconic animals on earth does not make you a conservationist.""
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:24 AM
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And you're not being realistic or providing reality. The reality is that hunting and poaching legal or not has decimated big cats, elephants, primates, rhinos, giraffes, and anything that can walk or breath basically. None of these need to be "culled." They need immediate strong PROTECTION. Some jackhole just killed 1 of the last few thousand rhinos a few years ago. Paid like a 1/3 $ million to do it.

The reality is these poor short sighted nations are selling permits at the expense of the survival of the species to profit now before poachers kill them all. They are inept or unable to protect them. They lose 60 to poaching, and sell 5 more permits. The net loss is 65 to that. Plus a high natural mortality rate. How long can this last before they are totally gone? A decade or two?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ersial-auction

"There are only an estimated 4,000 to 5,000 black rhinos living in the wild," Mark Memmott wrote for the Two-Way last year. "Namibian authorities issue five kill permits per year."

"Namibia is facing a surge in poaching last week, the country's New Era newspaper said that 60 rhinos have been poached so far in 2015, leading Namibia's environmental ministry to double its reward for information about the killings."

""I am deeply saddened, disappointed and incredulous that he sees this mission as contributing to the survival of endangered black rhinos," said the International Fund for Animal Welfare's Jeff Flocken. "If you pay to take a human life and give to humanitarian causes, it does not make you a humanitarian. And paying money to kill one of the last iconic animals on earth does not make you a conservationist.""
Obviously "strong protection" alone doesnt work. 'strong protection"in conjunction with limited, expensive hunting, funds the preservation and breeding of animals and it *does* work. Just like banning sale of horns/tusks seems like it would work, it actually doesnt work.

http://time.com/4926847/trophy-docum...shaul-schwarz/

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Give me one animal that has gone extinct while farmers were breeding it and making money out of it, Hume tells filmmaker Shaul Schwarz in his thought-provoking new documentary, Trophy (out Sept. 8). I truly believe that I have the recipe to save the rhino from extinction. Sell the horns and keep the rhinos alive. And breed more and more.

In texas there was a huge industry for canned hunts of scimitar oryx, which is an endangered species. Now that the federal govt has banned those hunts, it is likely the animals will go extinct. Once the free market comes into play you would see an explosion of animals.

https://www.outdoornews.com/2012/04/...tic-antelopes/

Quote:
Texas has the largest population of the animals in the world far more than even their native Africa. In 1979, Texas had less than three dozen scimitar-horned oryx, just two addax and nine dama gazelles, according to the Exotic Wildlife Association. But by 2010, the state had more than 11,000 scimitar-horned oryx, about 5,100 addax and nearly 900 dama gazelles, according to the association
Quote:
The scimitar-horned oryx, which has horns up to 4 feet (1.2 meters) long curving toward its back, was declared extinct in the wild in 2000. Five years later, the three species were listed on the Endangered Species Act, but they were exempt from the no-hunting rule by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Now the rule is being enforced so the animals won't be killed in "canned hunts,'' said Priscilla Feral, president of the Connecticut-based Friends of Animals that successfully challenged that exemption.

"The ranchers care about offering them in trophy hunts on property from which they cannot escape,'' Feral said. "They only live so they can die. To call that conservation is ludicrous.''

Ranchers allowed just 10-15 percent of their herds to be killed each year, said Seale, who has a South Texas ranch with exotic animals. The dama gazelle is the rarest of the three, but hunters still shelled out big bucks for the others _ up to $5,000 for the chance to bag a scimitar-horned oryx and $7,000 for an addax, known for its long, thin, spiral-shaped horns.

You think you are a conservative lead counsel (and maybe you are a social conservative), but you are 100% a liberal in that you dont understand or believe in the science of economics.
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:15 AM
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Obviously "strong protection" alone doesnt work. 'strong protection"in conjunction with limited, expensive hunting, funds the preservation and breeding of animals and it *does* work. Just like banning sale of horns/tusks seems like it would work, it actually doesnt work.

http://time.com/4926847/trophy-docum...shaul-schwarz/




In texas there was a huge industry for canned hunts of scimitar oryx, which is an endangered species. Now that the federal govt has banned those hunts, it is likely the animals will go extinct. Once the free market comes into play you would see an explosion of animals.

https://www.outdoornews.com/2012/04/...tic-antelopes/






You think you are a conservative lead counsel (and maybe you are a social conservative), but you are 100% a liberal in that you dont understand or believe in the science of economics.
Thank yiu.

You said it better and far more politely than I would of.

I also like how the inability of certain species divorcing with humans is ignored.

Elephants are basically wild hogs of monstrous size.

They would destroy a village on their way to eat the villages entire subsistence crop in a single night.

One has to go, and I don't see many people volunteering themselves...
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:57 AM
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Obviously "strong protection" alone doesnt work. 'strong protection"in conjunction with limited, expensive hunting, funds the preservation and breeding of animals and it *does* work. Just like banning sale of horns/tusks seems like it would work, it actually doesnt work.



http://time.com/4926847/trophy-docum...shaul-schwarz/









In texas there was a huge industry for canned hunts of scimitar oryx, which is an endangered species. Now that the federal govt has banned those hunts, it is likely the animals will go extinct. Once the free market comes into play you would see an explosion of animals.



https://www.outdoornews.com/2012/04/...tic-antelopes/













You think you are a conservative lead counsel (and maybe you are a social conservative), but you are 100% a liberal in that you dont understand or believe in the science of economics.
Not understanding economics has nothing to do with political affiliation.

You can be ignorant about economics and be conservative.

Crazy how the first thing I read today is mind numbingly stupid.

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Old 06-01-2019, 01:13 PM
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Unless you were a seasoned climber you'd die lmao. You can't just "walk up". You're at altitudes that shut your body down, deplete you of oxygen to dangerous levels, and can encounter 150 mph winds at sub zero temps.



I'll definitely pass on such a fool's errand. I spent a treacherous winter in the mountains of Afghanistan. I know what it's like to battle frostbite and hypothermia and test the very limits of my gear in sub zero temperatures. It's a misery I won't willingly return to.



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Old 06-04-2019, 08:57 PM
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Just watch the movie "Everest" 2015 version. Has anyone here seen it?
It depicted much of what has ben discussed here. Based on a true story, I thought the characters played well their roles. I'm going to watch it again, missed a few parts .
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkbait View Post
It's not a stroll to the corner bar.
That sounds like more fun. . . and the Uber Sherpas could use more cash for their familis.
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Time to repeal the 17th.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by eyepal View Post
Just watch the movie "Everest" 2015 version. Has anyone here seen it?

It depicted much of what has ben discussed here. Based on a true story, I thought the characters played well their roles. I'm going to watch it again, missed a few parts .
I looked for it on Netflix, didn't find it, gave up lol

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Old 06-04-2019, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFlame View Post
I looked for it on Netflix, didn't find it, gave up lol
It's on Vudu, cost $3.99 to rent.
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