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Old 05-25-2019, 08:30 AM
cat_1978 cat_1978 is offline
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No, God did not. In fact i think the talmud (the book jews revere over the torah) is quite the evil book.
Please be specific. Did not what? You sound angry... tone down your anger because I would like to actually know what you are saying and anger will make you illegible.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:31 AM
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If you read the scripture God is talking about Abraham. Not the country of israel, or israelites as a whole. (Gen. 12:3).

Also check out what Balaam says in Numbers 24.

Romans 9:6 also says that not everyone of Israel is of Israel.

Its a common misconception that has people loving Israel to the point of idolatry. In fact unless you are a jew you aren't allowed to move there. Which is crazy because Jesus said not to bother with ancestry. And the ONLY way to the father is through the son.

Sorry to burst your theological bubble but Jews have no moral compass and America shouldn't be sending them ANY money.
You do not burst anything. Maybe you should provide more detail to your theory...

Balaam in Numbers 24 says that God says this "May those who bless you be blessed and those who curse you be cursed!” so I don't understand your using this to refute my point. It actually goes perfect with MY point.

You quote Romans 9:6 "It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel." to support the theory that ALL Israelis now in Israel are not from Israel (nation)?
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:19 AM
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You do not burst anything. Maybe you should provide more detail to your theory...

Balaam in Numbers 24 says that God says this "May those who bless you be blessed and those who curse you be cursed!” so I don't understand your using this to refute my point. It actually goes perfect with MY point.

You quote Romans 9:6 "It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel." to support the theory that ALL Israelis now in Israel are not from Israel (nation)?
Neither gen. Or numbers is talking about the israeli people. They are talking about a singular person. So God doesnt command us to bless israel (the nation, or people). And i bring up romans because that part is reffering to how not everyone from israel is of israel. That points back to Jesus saying dont put stock into ancestry.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:15 PM
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Neither gen. Or numbers is talking about the israeli people. They are talking about a singular person. So God doesnt command us to bless israel (the nation, or people). And i bring up romans because that part is reffering to how not everyone from israel is of israel. That points back to Jesus saying dont put stock into ancestry.
Can you bring a better proof or argumentation process of the statement above than the quote from the Romans?

It seems you either do not read the same Bible like me or have something really complex in your mind that you do not share. It is fine if you do not want to share (because you might think it is too radical, or something) however, I cannot understand your logical though process if you do not share more detail on your theory/interpretation.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:47 PM
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Can you bring a better proof or argumentation process of the statement above than the quote from the Romans?
Just look at the verse. God is having a one on one conversation with him. It doesnt say "i will bless those who bless literally all of your physical decsendants etc..." it says the word YOU in every translation (and thee in kjv).
Also, christians are israel. There is no spiritual israel with out christians. Paul even laments about his jewish bretheren not going down the right path and such.

For me its simple. Israel today is just a political entity and nothing more. I dont hold modern day jews in high regard (unless they can come to accept christ and leave behind their ways).
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Old 05-25-2019, 07:23 PM
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Just look at the verse. God is having a one on one conversation with him. It doesnt say "i will bless those who bless literally all of your physical decsendants etc..." it says the word YOU in every translation (and thee in kjv).
Also, christians are israel. There is no spiritual israel with out christians. Paul even laments about his jewish bretheren not going down the right path and such.

For me its simple. Israel today is just a political entity and nothing more. I dont hold modern day jews in high regard (unless they can come to accept christ and leave behind their ways).
Interesting interpretation. What if you are wrong and God blessed the nation that is today also? What then? Is this a risk you might take?
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Old 05-25-2019, 07:54 PM
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By the grace of God or prevailing in war from an attacker, it is their land.

The Ottoman empire was on the wrong side of WW I. They lost land.
WW II, The Germans, went at it again. Something needed to be done.

The solution in 1948 may not have been the best solutions, but the Jewish people had been immigrating, sometimes illegally, to their historical homeland for nearly 50 years. Um. Just like the Ottomans and Mahomedans did over a thousand years earlier. Ya get enough illegals, they will take over if they are not assimilating. Something to think about on our southern border.

Anyway, a lot of history and who knows who was right.

Then, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan went kinetic with their diplomacy for nearly a week and they got their clocks cleaned.

When they went kinetic, all land won by the defenders is now their land.

I'm not eager to give spoils of victory to the aggressors, but that is not an issue in this case.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
UN ambassador presents the Bible - The right of Jewish people over Israel lands

He brings the Bible and reads from it. I KNOW there are here people that do not think the Jews have a right to Palestine lands. Please provide your arguments. This is a religious issue, in fact the most political religious issues of our times.
Cat, I've read this thread a few times and cannot comprehend any arguments against the premise The right of Jewish people over Israel lands. (I'm surprised Revmgt did not jump all over this thread in his anti-Semitic zealotry.).

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When West Bank will be firmly in Israel hands then it will be the turn of Jerusalem to become entirely Jewish. And then the Temple Mount. The prophecies are coming alive in our time and under our gaze.
Prophecies coming true are very interesting. Sounds like a nice direction for this thread to go.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
jews have no moral compass
How do you reach this brilliant conclusion? And please, answer the question in the context of the bigotry of <INSERT ANY DEMOGRAPHIC GROUP> has no moral compass, e.g.,
  • Women have no moral compass
  • Blacks have no moral compass
  • Atheists have no moral compass
  • Buddhists have no moral compass
  • Secular humanists have no moral compass
  • NickB has no moral compass
And, of course, answering the question has to establish WHO DOES have a moral compass to judge those who do not.

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and Anerica shouldn't be sending them ANY money.
That sounds like a moral judgment. I thought America was a free country. To my way of thinking, Israel is the First State and the tip of the spear. As a Christian nation, we ought to send our money to Israel over every other consideration besides our own national security, for indeed our security is tied to their security.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:44 PM
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Interesting interpretation. What if you are wrong and God blessed the nation that is today also? What then? Is this a risk you might take?
I've given you the reason why i think what i think. Now tell me why you are interpreting it your way. I'm genuily interested.

So, C.I. scofield helped promote the view point you have. C.I. Scofield left his firsr wife for a wealthy jewess. Shortly after that (and surprisingly not before) he started shilling that view point.

But seriously i would like to hear why other people think that way. All I'm seeing is "you're wrong"...
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Old 05-26-2019, 01:05 AM
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The Land of Canaan, from the River of Egypt [Nile] to the Euphrates, belongs to the Jews [House of Israel] because God gave it to Abraham and his descendants forever, and established His covenant with Israel [not Ishmael].
See Genesis, Chapters 15, 16, and 17.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
I've given you the reason why i think what i think. Now tell me why you are interpreting it your way. I'm genuily interested.

So, C.I. scofield helped promote the view point you have. C.I. Scofield left his firsr wife for a wealthy jewess. Shortly after that (and surprisingly not before) he started shilling that view point.

But seriously i would like to hear why other people think that way. All I'm seeing is "you're wrong"...
Who is this "YOU" that Balaam is prophesying from God?

"How beautiful are your tents, Jacob,
your dwelling places, Israel!"

It seems it refers to all Israel nation, not a person in particular, since Jacob himself was long since dead. Also He does not talk about Abraham. Remember, this is actually God speaking through Balaam.

The conclusion is clear: the nation of Israel, and not only at that time.
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:26 AM
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I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. It seems we arent going to persuade each other. Thanks for the debate though.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:40 PM
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I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. It seems we arent going to persuade each other. Thanks for the debate though.
As long as you don't join the SS I am fine with that. But if you do I will be on the other side.... actively.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by randolphrowzeebragg View Post
Israelis would be better off if they ditched the religious arguments for why they should have the land they have, and stick with the "we took it so it's ours until someone can take it from us" argument. Ask the folks in the Crimea who owns the land.
When Egypt, Jordan and Syria decided to push the Jews into the sea in '67, where was the UN?

The very first UN peacekeeping mission started in 1948, was to supervise the ceasefire between Israel and the Arabs, and continues to this day. There have also been additional UN missions to the area, which have ended, but the first one continues to this day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time...eping_missions

There is also a non-UN, multinational peacekeeping mission in the Sinai from the Camp David Accords.
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:39 AM
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As long as you don't join the SS I am fine with that. But if you do I will be on the other side.... actively.
What SS are you speaking of?
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:00 AM
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What SS are you speaking of?
A future imaginary one. History shows it can be a very fast development from thoughts to words to action, so I don't discount anything as impossible.
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