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Old 05-07-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Prepgirl2 View Post
As a cc in tropic hot weather... why not. I cannot cc my 9 in summer.. less clothes, small frame etc. I took the plunge and purchased a cute little ruger .380.. It eats FMJ and hollow points with no prob and I turned a steel barrel into swiss cheese. Why is not considered a decent self defense round ?
I think it's great you carry a gun.

Don't worry about opinions over .380. It's lethal. It's not for everyone, but it will work.

Gun folks like to banter about calibers. Don't sweat it.

To answer your question, people including myself find that generally speaking the .380 caliber is anemic and less than ideal in anything larger than a pocket pistol. Also, bigger guns are generally easier to manage and aim, which is the king of the equations. Ballistics is the queen of the equation.

.380 is a ~90 grain pill going about 1000 fps, and generally best in FMJ for feeding and penetration, so creating a wound about .38 inches diameter. By contrast, a good 9x19 is a 124-147 grain hollow point going 1200 fps that will penetrate as deep, and expand to about twice diameter or about .65 inches. Stepping up to a good .40 caliber, we see 180 grain 1000 fps hollow point expanding to about .75 inches and creating as deep a hole.

So with the 9 or .40 you have a bigger wound, same or better speed, and probably better penetration (energy, weight, speed). So think about a .40. It's about twice as heavy, same speed, and creating more than twice the diameter wound...

I can understand everyone has different body frame and manner of dress and ability to conceal. If a pocket .380 is what you can carry and shoot well, that is awesome.

I do sometimes carry a pocket P3AT Keltec in .380. But generally I carry a larger more potent 9mm or .40 caliber as my typical dressing allows for it.
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:31 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prepgirl2 View Post
well i tried the 42 which was nice .. but could not justify in my mind the $$for a.380.. I will consider the 43 for the future,,,but hands down I love the 19 for home defense or when I don't have to conceal on my person... The 19still likes a road trip
Oh she can handle a 19 or a 26, and my sister who is 5'4" has one of my 19's and dad's 30-30....

But I'm talking actual carry.

You could do worse than a 43 On body and a 19 by the bed or the car.On
(With a streetlight TRL-1HL

Like I said, while a .380 qualifies under rule 1.... No reason to since there are so many good, and inexpensive subcompact 9's.
(Which are SO MUCH cheaper to shoot.)

I prefer the shield, it's cheaper, and holds more (although I do the .40)
But most of the women in my life (mom, ex GF etc) prefer the 43.
(I Have the advantage of being able to Palm a basketball, so I can shoot just about anything.)


Look at the streamlight TRL-6, it'll work on the shield or 43
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:02 AM
PA_Robert PA_Robert is offline
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I like my LCP and sometimes it's the only thing I got. That's not very often, but it happens, situation dependent.

I typically have it in my pocket as a back up.

If anyone has any issues with a .380, just ask them if you can shoot them in the chest from 15'.

A .380 beats a sharp stick or pepper spray.

5,4,3,2,1,........enter the pepper purveyor.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:38 AM
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Before you discount the effectiveness (even for fatal injuries) of the .380, consider the statistical EVIDENCE given below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nycYxb-zNwc&feature=youtu.be

Not as anemic as many think. And yes, I generally carry a 9mm, but on occasion I do carry a Sig P238 (.380). It is VERY accurate. Try one, you might be surprised as to it's accuracy. Clearly, not all .380s are inaccurate or hard to control as some proclaim. If shot placement is a paramount concern, the Sig P238 is worth consideration. Try it. You will like it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:20 AM
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I don't see how hot weather would prevent carrying the same gun as when it's cold out. A Glock 19 in an IWB holster is just as concealed with long pants and an untucked shirt as with shorts and an untucked tank top.
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:12 AM
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It's expensive, and weak. Maybe if it was as cheap as it is low powered it would make more sense.
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue Doh Myn View Post
I don't see how hot weather would prevent carrying the same gun as when it's cold out. A Glock 19 in an IWB holster is just as concealed with long pants and an untucked shirt as with shorts and an untucked tank top.
Basically:

Woman's fashions.

Prior to the Shield, G43 and that tiny 9mms Sig a G26 (usually in a belly band) was what the "serious" about being armed women I knew carried.


Guys have it easy, women's pants and shirts are very form fitting (for which I am thankful)

My sister who's the athlete wears yoga pants more than anything else.

a Subcompact glock (with full sized mags to reload it) is the smallest gun I'd want in a fight.

But a 43 or shield is DEFINATELY a step up from a .380 or even a J frame.
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:09 AM
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A couple of the latest .380 loads are right at the threshold of good performance.

The advice you've gotten is sound. But I'd rather you had that .380 on you, then the fully loaded 19 under the seat of the car, or buried in your purse.

Which is where far too many of the tactical guru's wives I know have theirs, since the "big cheese" wouldn't dream of "allowing" them to carry a "mouse gun".

As Nomad said, rule 1 will always apply. Doing better is better, but rule 1 is rule 1.

As AK103K said, shoot it. A lot. Get good with it.

That will make up for any caliber argument.


.
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
As AK103K said, shoot it. A lot. Get good with it.

That will make up for any caliber argument.
No matter how good you are with a bad weapon, you are better with a good one.

No matter how bad you are with a good weapon, you are even worse with a bad one.

There is no 'making' up.
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prepgirl2 View Post
I think an ankle holster is great..how ever does not work with boots and a thigh holster does not work with jeans or shorts.. cute video though !
I missed this.

I offer my sister's the following holsters:

Galco Ankle glove (ankle carry)

Smart carry (can wear under shorts, jeans that aren't painted on etc)
IMHO superior to thunder wear

belly band (works when other women's fashions doesn't apparently)
Either low, or higher just under the chest. Can have the gun in any position around the torso.

Sticky holster (yoga pants etc)

And IWB, and OWB.

You will carry less constantly than we (guys) do, but you CAN carry an "acceptable minimum" caliber.

And MORE importantly.... You can afford to practice more with a 9mm.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:44 AM
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I have a few LCP IIs, not LCP with crappy trigger
Great trigger
Use Underwood Penetrator ammunition
10 oz gun that will smoke a Goblin with the Underwood Penetrators
As usual, a lot of bad advice here
This forum has a few knowledgeable members when it comes to firearms
The balance, not so much
https://www.underwoodammo.com/collec...18786990456889
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:30 AM
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It's my wife's edc that she shoots well. Proper ammo and accuracy is the key.
She is only 4' 10" and 100 lbs.
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Old 05-08-2019, 08:37 AM
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i guess that the hate for 380acp comes from its higher cost and lower power than its sibling 9mm. i have always believed that whatever handgun/ammo combination of affordability and enjoyment, so that alot of practice is a thing to relish, is one’s appropriate ccw, especially for most civilians.

o.p.’s ruger lcp is a very handy piece and if it came in 32acp i might enjoy shooting it, but in 380acp i found it too uncomfortable for my practice habits to serve as a ccw. i recently got a sig p238, which is a dream to shoot and carry. i put about 600 rounds of various fmj ammo through the p238 in the past month and it never once hiccuped. i’m still a 38sp wadcutter revolver guy but, while i like a j frame platform for its simplicity, that ammo is more expensive and harder to find than 380acp.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
No matter how good you are with a bad weapon, you are better with a good one.

No matter how bad you are with a good weapon, you are even worse with a bad one.

There is no 'making' up.
Bad, or even mediocre with any of them isnt good.

And I dont think its so much making up, as it is "making do" with the little guns. Its the "better than a sharp stick" mentality, and thats not my idea of thinking things out.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I missed this.

I offer my sister's the following holsters:

Galco Ankle glove (ankle carry)

Smart carry (can wear under shorts, jeans that aren't painted on etc)
IMHO superior to thunder wear

belly band (works when other women's fashions doesn't apparently)
Either low, or higher just under the chest. Can have the gun in any position around the torso.

Sticky holster (yoga pants etc)

And IWB, and OWB.

You will carry less constantly than we (guys) do, but you CAN carry an "acceptable minimum" caliber.

And MORE importantly.... You can afford to practice more with a 9mm.
I think Chuckleberry's little clip shows that with some thought and experimentation, you should be able to find a way to reasonably and comfortably carry a more realistic gun.

I just think these days, most dont want to make the effort.

And thats even more of an issue when it comes to practice. Which is an even bigger issue with the smaller guns.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
I have a few LCP IIs, not LCP with crappy trigger
Great trigger
Use Underwood Penetrator ammunition
10 oz gun that will smoke a Goblin with the Underwood Penetrators
As usual, a lot of bad advice here
This forum has a few knowledgeable members when it comes to firearms
The balance, not so much
https://www.underwoodammo.com/collec...18786990456889
Its bad enough that 380 costs what it does, now youre suggesting spending more on trendy magic bullets that are still marginal.

How often do you shoot them, or just 380 ball in practice, doing realistic drills, to be reasonably proficient with those LCP's?


Id be willing to bet, that 75%-85% of those who carry a gun, dont do so daily, and dont practice weekly, or at the very least, a couple of times a month, in live fire (regular, if not daily dry fire, is something that should be done in between).

Im also willing to bet, they dont practice anything realistic when they do practice. How many here base their skill level on relaxed, slow fire bullseye type shooting and how tight a group you can shoot? Thats great and all, but all it really proves is, you have the basics down, and really doesnt apply to anything in the real world, especially if you have to think about doing it.

Its hard enough to work with a full sized handgun and make things work. That effort goes up exponentially as you go down in size, and results tend to follow the size downwards, especially if you dont constantly work at it.

The part of the whole equation here that is the most important, seems to be lost on many, when they think about things. You have to be able to make things work, from how you carry it, quickly get to it and get it into action, and shoot it well. Just "having" a gun, basically means nothing.

If you dont regularly practice the whole package, how do you suppose things are going to work when you need it most?

Have you worked at it to the point you can you do it without thinking about doing it? Thats the point you really want to be at. If you think "guns", the gun should just appear in your hands. You shouldnt have to think about where to go get it and what to do next.

And dont be that guy that has to go looking for it, because you constantly switch out guns, and never carry it in the same place twice.


Carry what you want, just dont fool yourself into believing youre prepared, especially if all youve done, is put a gun in your pocket or a holster and called it good.

Reality is, there's a LOT more to it.
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:32 AM
Herd Sniper Herd Sniper is offline
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Many years ago, German police used the .380 cartridge for one of their duty rounds, for detectives and plainclothes police officers I believe, about the time and prior to WW2. There are certain pistols that use the .380 round that are pretty darn accurate with it. A good Bersa comes to mind right now. I have one and it shoots well for me.

In addition, there were a couple of submachineguns that were produced or still produced in the .380 caliber cartridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-19_Bizon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC-11

The .380 round is not a complete wimp nor has it been entirely overlooked. The thing that keeps it down is that the 9 mm cartridge has just been more accepted for overall duty than the .380 down through the years.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:22 AM
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I hate them so much I have 3.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:28 AM
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Default The 380

The modern 380 in a full metal jacket carries approximately the same ballistics as the 36 cal. Model 51 Navy Colt.

This was the firearm carried by Wild Bill Hickok .

No one can say this was not a lethal weapon.

He once killed a man at 75 yards with a single shot to the heart.

If you carry a 380 , leave the hollow points alone and only carry a full metal jacketed 90 grain round.

You want penetration not expansion.

Accurate placement is more important than expansion in any caliber.
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:32 AM
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I use flat point .380 ACP. It will shoot through two feet of ballistic gel, and then some.
But, I carry the Underwood .380 Penetrator
Here is fact
https://youtu.be/LczfeWK9lHw
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
I use flat point .380 ACP. It will shoot through two feet of ballistic gel, and then some.
But, I carry the Underwood .380 Penetrator
Here is fact
https://youtu.be/LczfeWK9lHw
Thats great and all. If you look over at Lucky Gunners comparison charts on how well the 380's they tested penetrate and perform, out of around 20 loads tested, about 50% of them dont, or barely make the FBI minimum of 12". A few hover in the desired range, and the ones that do go beyond, do so because the bullets failed to properly perform as expected, due to passing through cloth before the gel.

Counting on magic bullets with any of them is, well, counting on magic.


The bigger and more important question is, how well do you actually shoot with them under more realistic conditions?

You can easily get the gun going and hit what needs hit with them without effort and at most distances expected to be able to make good hits?

The difference between my LCPs and my Glocks and SIGs was, the later shoot like their bigger siblings, and are capable of the same accuracy at pretty much the same distances. The LCP's usefulness "quickly" drops off as the distance opens up.

If you cant quickly hit what youre aiming at under realistic circumstances, bullets of any type really dont make any difference.
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:16 AM
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Lehigh Defense bullets are not "magic"
The .380 ACP Xtreme Penetrator bullet works real good. Fact.
If you are ignorant of both Lehigh Defense bullets and the LCP II, then why comment?
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