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Old 03-08-2019, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 7.5x55 Swiss View Post
Alright so I went with Ar-500 Level III+ plates. Got a Lightweight shooters cut plate for the front, and a non-lightweight shooters cut for the backplate to balance out the load on my chest (giggity).

So now my question is this, the plates are both Standalone plates and I've seen varying definitions. Are they designed to be used without trauma plates because they are standalone?
you can use them without trauma plates. adding them could help to catch any spalling not caught by the lining and reduce the feeling that someone hit you in the chest with a baseball bat, but they arent neccessary.
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:01 AM
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Are they designed to be used without trauma plates because they are standalone?
Standalone refers to the over all armor rating.

There is some armor that is only level 3 if worn in combination with other other armor and just meant as an additional, optional protection for something like a III-A vest to upgrade it to III, but on its own wouldn't qualify as III.
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:28 AM
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Alright, so trauma plates are not necessary, but recommended? I get my next paycheck on Thursday so I'll just order some then. Better to have em and not need em and all that I uess.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:44 PM
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IMHO, the plates are fine. Spend that coin for some side protection, or to protect your lower back and groin. The 3+ stand alone plates do just that. No backup needed.
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:35 PM
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Alright, so trauma plates are not necessary, but recommended?
Not really. You will have enough problems if you are getting shot in the chest with rifle rounds to worry about any bruises you may get.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:45 PM
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Alright, I'll skip the trauma pads. I will probably go for an ACH before I get the side plates/groin protection but that will be next on my list.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:28 AM
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A good argument for upgrading for minor cost to level IV plates. Hunting rifles like the .300 win mag are not uncommon. This plate defeats multiple hits. https://youtu.be/KHFJ5Gdmy8s
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:22 AM
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I don't have trauma plates, but I have front and rear kevlar from a cop issue vest. It wraps the entire front, side and rear, and gives added pistol/stab/spatter protection.

Personally, I don't buy into the minimalist view of a place carrier. If I'm going through the trouble of wearing armor, I want COMPLETE protection, as much as I can. My plates cover from around my clavicle to my belly button, same with the rear, and I have side plates. The kevlar covers any gaps. I'm also 6'1, so I'm not short and hiding behind a standard plate.

PCs like the PIG or other minimalist designs might be light and comfortable, but they leave your entire gut wide open. Yeah, you might survive a gut shot, under perfect circumstances, but do you even want to risk it? It can easily hit your spine, spleen, liver, etc. I'd rather have the extra weight of my rig, and know I can take a hit to my stomach, than be lighter and a little more maneuverable in something like a PIG or whatever, but leave my entire midsection wide open and only have protection on a limited area.
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoMirage View Post
I don't have trauma plates, but I have front and rear kevlar from a cop issue vest. It wraps the entire front, side and rear, and gives added pistol/stab/spatter protection.

Personally, I don't buy into the minimalist view of a place carrier. If I'm going through the trouble of wearing armor, I want COMPLETE protection, as much as I can. My plates cover from around my clavicle to my belly button, same with the rear, and I have side plates. The kevlar covers any gaps. I'm also 6'1, so I'm not short and hiding behind a standard plate.

PCs like the PIG or other minimalist designs might be light and comfortable, but they leave your entire gut wide open. Yeah, you might survive a gut shot, under perfect circumstances, but do you even want to risk it? It can easily hit your spine, spleen, liver, etc. I'd rather have the extra weight of my rig, and know I can take a hit to my stomach, than be lighter and a little more maneuverable in something like a PIG or whatever, but leave my entire midsection wide open and only have protection on a limited area.
If your soft armor goes below your navel, it is over-sized. It will also do nothing against rifle rounds. With a properly-sized soft armor vest under plates, you might get an additional 2 inches of pistol protection, over what a pc + side plates would give you. It will do nothing for rifle rounds, and there is actually some data that suggests it may actually be a detriment in the case of a rifle round strike (from an infection standpoint, caused by fibers of kevlar being pulled into wounds).

I wear soft armor everyday at work, and have for 24 years. It's certainly not crippling, and it's up to the individual to decide if that extra coverage is worth the penalties that do come with wearing soft armor under plates. Particularly when you are carrying a pc with stuff attached to it, and not completely slick.

Soft armor is not breathable, which means it adds to overheating, it impacts movement, and it adds (some) weight.

Almost any pc will allow the use of side plates (even a PIG - which is my pc of choice). There are multiple add-on pieces that can be purchased for pc's including groin, abdominal,coccyx, neck/throat, and shoulder pieces. You CAN get excellent coverage. There is ALWAYS a penalty.

Personally, I run lvl 3 (ST) front, rear, and side plates, and Hoplite lvl 3++ (actually ST) shoulder plates.For me, that offers plenty of protection from the most likely threats I will face, and covers me from shoulders to just above my navel - while not being overly-heavy, overly-bulky, or overly-hot.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:10 PM
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I never said it goes below my naval, I said the entire PC ends around there, and that's where the plate and kevlar end. I already KNOW the kevlar is only pistol rated, as I stated it will give PISTOL/stab/spatter protection in my post.

My rig when loaded with ammo weighs about 40lbs. I've already take many carbine classes with it, gone on walkabout on the back 40 with it, and wore it for an entire 3 day weekend during a camping/range/bivouac trip. Only thing I haven't done yet is wear a laden BOB with it.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoMirage View Post
I never said it goes below my naval, I said the entire PC ends around there, and that's where the plate and kevlar end. I already KNOW the kevlar is only pistol rated, as I stated it will give PISTOL/stab/spatter protection in my post.

My rig when loaded with ammo weighs about 40lbs. I've already take many carbine classes with it, gone on walkabout on the back 40 with it, and wore it for an entire 3 day weekend during a camping/range/bivouac trip. Only thing I haven't done yet is wear a laden BOB with it.
So, my confusion would be, how much more does the soft armor cover than a pc with side plates? You seemed to make a big deal out of the extra coverage...
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:09 PM
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Do you all think it'd be a good idea to get a patch with my blood type and allergen info to stick next to my IFAK in case I'm unconscious and can't respond and by the grace of God there happens to be a medic I don't know nearby?
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 7.5x55 Swiss View Post
Do you all think it'd be a good idea to get a patch with my blood type and allergen info to stick next to my IFAK in case I'm unconscious and can't respond and by the grace of God there happens to be a medic I don't know nearby?
We had such things in the military but I'm told it's a waste of time. Anyone with the ability and blood stocks to do a surgery and transfusion, will do an instant blood type before hand. They aren't going to risk relying on your patch.

Now, I suppose if you are in some 3rd world situation, losing blood, and some other guy of the same blood type wants to be your blood bag, then sure...

I suppose just just a marker and write it on your boots or on your IFAK, etc.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
In spite of the weight, I prefer steel. It never damages from use or expires.

Long term, you will be replacing ceramic if you do any training with it or it cracks from use. In the military, seems that about every 6 months we had to turn in our ceramic plates and get new ones. Those were returned to the manufacturer to be x-rayed for cracks and destroyed if damaged.

If this is a serious long term SHTF investment, get steel with anti-spall.
This is a pretty profound observation. Yes, there are some much lighter and more effective plates on the market (and much more expensive), but quality steel plates (with anti-spall) have not expiration dates and can withstand multiple hits. They suck as they're heavier and don't fit most vest very well (I've velcro'd CCF pads to the backside), but they are a good investment for the survivalist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoMirage View Post
My rig when loaded with ammo weighs about 40lbs. I've already take many carbine classes with it, gone on walkabout on the back 40 with it, and wore it for an entire 3 day weekend during a camping/range/bivouac trip. Only thing I haven't done yet is wear a laden BOB with it.
I simply decided no plates for an on-foot bugout. I don't mind long patrols with a smaller assault pack, but carrying a large pack with body armor is just not feasible for me anymore. I've done a couple road marches with that setup and it's too much for me these days; it would cause more threat in the form of a mechanical injury than protection from bullets. There's a balance, and I still like my armor setup for the vehicle and around the house, but not for distance trekking with a heavy pack. I will continue to take classes with my armor as it's eye opening as to the impacts to maneuvering and certain shooting positions. I don't even want to do PT with a plate carrier anymore as the impacts are too damaging.

leadcounsel is pretty much spot on with the advantages of steel plates. They're not as optimum as ceramic or newer poly-plates, but for value and shelf-life, they are a good investment. I have sets of both.

ROCK6
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:24 AM
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I still like my armor setup for the vehicle and around the house, but not for distance trekking with a heavy pack.
Same. Wearing it right now as there is a local incident in progress. Perfectly comfortable for walking around the station or sitting in a car but I'm not hiking with it.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Disturbed70 View Post
So, my confusion would be, how much more does the soft armor cover than a pc with side plates? You seemed to make a big deal out of the extra coverage...
Just better to have and not need. It's already so heavy, the few extra pounds the kevlar adds will at least make me feel better. And if it actually DOES stop that one stray pistol round that misses a plate? Then it's worth it's extra weight.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
We had such things in the military but I'm told it's a waste of time. Anyone with the ability and blood stocks to do a surgery and transfusion, will do an instant blood type before hand. They aren't going to risk relying on your patch.

Now, I suppose if you are in some 3rd world situation, losing blood, and some other guy of the same blood type wants to be your blood bag, then sure...

I suppose just just a marker and write it on your boots or on your IFAK, etc.

Don't they use plasma, not blood, as it doesn't matter what type you have?
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:52 PM
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Don't they use plasma, not blood, as it doesn't matter what type you have?
It matters if what you need is blood. You can only thin out blood with plasma so much until it doesn't work as blood anymore.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:55 AM
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You cannot assume that a soft ballistic vest is also stab resistant. it needs to be specifically rated as such.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by EchoMirage View Post
Don't they use plasma, not blood, as it doesn't matter what type you have?
Plasma compatibility is just as important as red cell compatibility. People who don’t have A antigen on their red blood cells make an antibody against it, anti-A. People who don’t have B antigen make anti-B. So if you give plasma from someone who is type O to someone who is type AB, there will be anti-A and anti-B antibodies in the plasma that will attack and start to destroy the recipient’s own red blood cells.

Plasma is given because it has clotting factors to help someone who is not clotting well enough on their own, but only red blood cells can carry oxygen to tissues. For someone who is bleeding out, they need both plasma to help plug the holes and red blood cells to restore their ability to oxygenate their body.
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