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Old 12-31-2017, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sixtus View Post
Great testing. Slightly off tangent but 00 is favored for hogs here, too much past 40 yards and they start slipping through the pattern. Apart from that we use SSG, which is a UK size between your #2 and 3 buck, half the weight of 00, about 27 grains each. These produce better saturation on target and still kill okay at range, I found individual pellets in this size outpenetrated 22LR HV on pine boards for interests sake. Also had good results with US winchester loads of 4 buck as well, admittedly magnum loads of about 41 pellets and closer range. Frankly I would not like to be hit with any buck size. Any plans to test heavy magnum and other buck sizes?
What would like to see tested?
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:28 AM
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Unobtanium, nothing that isn't a PIA really. But since you ask, was always interested to see some of the US manufactured magnum 000 and 00 buckloads pattern at maximal ranges, say 35-40 yards, from a longer barrel.

eg
Remington 3" 10 pellet x 000 buck
Remington 3" 15 pellet x 00 buck
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
This is the most comprehensive testing I have seen. No mini-shells.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...arious-rounds/

Perhaps useful if all of your threats are addressed at ten feet or less.

The velocity and energy of a round ball decays VERY rapidly with range and penetration tests on gelatin blocks at ten feet bear absolutely NO relationship to what you can expect at realistic engagement ranges from 25-40 yards.

What you CAN depend on is that larger pellets of greater mass will retain greater striking energy and penetration, but there are trade-offs in pattern density as shot size increases and pellet count decreases.

The recommendations in the 1982 NRA study to choose ammunition in which there are sufficient pellet hits on target to ensure about 360 ft.-lbs. or 500 Joules of kinetic energy remain sound.

Every time I find 12-ga. #1 buckshot I buy it all!
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:31 AM
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^^^ If you viewed the link, that is the conclusion
#1 Buckshot
I use a .310" six cavity round ball mold which would be #.5 buckshot which is even better.
Stacks well in a wad, and a little more terminal performance.
Here is the mold, highly recommended if you cast and reload
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...2/1/LEE-310-6C
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:13 PM
dcliffhanger dcliffhanger is offline
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Obviously you guys do not hunt with a shotgun.

25 yards is not effective shotgun range, or the industry standard for measurement of shotgun performance.

That would be 40 yards.

It always has been, and posting a 25 yard test on the internet does not change that. It just makes you wrong.
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcliffhanger View Post
Obviously you guys do not hunt with a shotgun.

25 yards is not effective shotgun range, or the industry standard for measurement of shotgun performance.

That would be 40 yards.

It always has been, and posting a 25 yard test on the internet does not change that. It just makes you wrong.
Please forward your concerns to:

Hornady Manufacturing Company
P.O. Box 1848
Grand Island, NE 68802-1848

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/sh...g-light-magnum

As well as:

Federal Cartridge Company, 900 Ehlen Drive, Anoka, MN 55303
PHONE: 1-800-322-2342 FAX: 1-800-344-2020

http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/downl..._Data_Book.pdf

You will note use of pattern distances at many ranges in their LE material, and not one being 40 yards.

They will be pleased to have the free expert counsel on the wrongness of their ammunition specification/demonstration/advertising methods, and I am sure will thank you profusely. This will allow them to properly mend their ways, and may even garner you a consultation fee, if you play it cool. If so, please update us as I am curious what your reward for bringing their oversight in proper procedure to their attention will consist of.
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:45 PM
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40 yards is not the range at which police riot guns, skeet or .410 and 28-ga. guns are tested. Those are all tested at 25 yards.

It is highly unlikely that LE today would engage with a cylinder bore riot gun at 40 yards, due to risk of collateral damage, as you are responsible for every pellet you turn loose. If there are any current police firearms instructors here who would like to comment regarding current training and doctrine, that would be useful. My experience dates from the 1980s and lots of water has gone under the bridge in that time.

Back in the day when I hunted deer with buckshot in the Virginia Tidewater 40 yards was considered a "wounding distance" not killing distance. Of the dozen or so deer I have killed with buckshot none were over 30 yards.
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Old 01-01-2018, 03:05 PM
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I am not concerned about the #1 buck reload patterns out to 40 yds. These shells are fabricated to be used as HD rounds which is why I test at 10, 15 and 20 yds.
I have pattered #6 birdshot reloads usually out of a modified barrel to what I consider hunting distances, 30 and 40 yds.
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Old 01-01-2018, 05:19 PM
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Flitecontrol #1 actually doesn't do too bad at 40 yards. Not hostage shot worthy, but certainly usable if that's what you have in your hands.
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Old 01-01-2018, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
What would like to see tested?
Different chokes with the buck loads......
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue123 View Post
Different chokes with the buck loads......
My Supernova does not have this feature, nor does my M4 SBS. It is what it is, with them. CYL 0.728" ID.

I used to have guns with chokes. I could get a different pattern with the same 5-shot ammo box using 3 brands of the same constriction. When you begin adding chokes to the equation, it's like saying "brute force solve this combination" and going from a 2 tumbler combo lock to a 3 tumbler combo lock.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
My Supernova does not have this feature, nor does my M4 SBS. It is what it is, with them. CYL 0.728" ID.

I used to have guns with chokes. I could get a different pattern with the same 5-shot ammo box using 3 brands of the same constriction. When you begin adding chokes to the equation, it's like saying "brute force solve this combination" and going from a 2 tumbler combo lock to a 3 tumbler combo lock.


Chokes give you tighter patterns at distance, I don't own a shotgun without that capability and Since your patterning buck, I thought it would have added another dimension to your thread. Most folks who don't use a shotgun in the field, rarely consider choke use as a viable feature in a HD shotgun.

YMMV
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue123 View Post
Chokes give you tighter patterns at distance, I don't own a shotgun without that capability and Since your patterning buck, I thought it would have added another dimension to your thread. Most folks who don't use a shotgun in the field, rarely consider choke use as a viable feature in a HD shotgun.

YMMV
I have found cylinder and flite control buck patterns better than anything else. Chokes are just failure points, imo
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:59 AM
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I had a shotgun with chokes that I got rid of. My fault, of course, but I was constantly changing chokes in the field as conditions varied. It became a distraction so I sold it.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:00 AM
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Unobtanium, was the Rem buffered shot?
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john1969 View Post
Unobtanium, was the Rem buffered shot?
Can't speak for Unobtanium, but Remington buckshot loads we tested at Quantico im 1980s were all buffered with plastic grex, but without shot wrapper. So far as I know Remington buckshot still made that way.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:04 AM
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Unobtanium, was the Rem buffered shot?
Yes. Full shot cup on the regular, and polystyrene. Plastic pellets and no cup, on the reduced i belioeve it was.
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue123 View Post
Chokes give you tighter patterns at distance, I don't own a shotgun without that capability and Since your patterning buck, I thought it would have added another dimension to your thread. Most folks who don't use a shotgun in the field, rarely consider choke use as a viable feature in a HD shotgun.

YMMV
Since some of my shotguns have interchangeable chokes, I test with 'em. Sure does add up to a lot of extra shooting but keeping all else the same has helped me make specific shotgun/choke/load decisions on which I purchase ammunition.

It's simpler to test fixed choke shotguns but testing is still a necessary step before buying ammo.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcliffhanger View Post
Obviously you guys do not hunt with a shotgun.

25 yards is not effective shotgun range, or the industry standard for measurement of shotgun performance.

That would be 40 yards.

It always has been, and posting a 25 yard test on the internet does not change that. It just makes you wrong.
40y shots with OOB is beyond effective torso-size OOB patterns of most 12ga loadings. The only exception I have personally tested is Federal Premium Tactical LEO 9 pellet OOB with Flitecontrol wads (LE132 00). Even with cylinder bore guns these loads are effective at 40y.

Most other OOB loadings I have tested were only "bad-guy effective" out to 15y-25y out of a cylinder bore 12ga.

ADDENDUM: It was interesting that the larger the buckshot pellet size = the smaller the pattern out of cylinder bore guns. For example, OOB patterns were always tighter than #4B patterns.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:42 PM
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Neut,

Ever read the top flap of a Remington buckshot box?

"May be used with any choke, but best results with full choke."
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