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Old 06-18-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
What my posts are doing is causing heterodox Christians and you (a non-believer) to unite their diverse dogmas to oppose the traditional Church which they believe should never have existed.
You're delusional.

This is at least the 3rd post of yours that I read today where you make the claim non-EOC believe the EOC should not even exist. OM challenged you to provide 1 post where anyone made that claim. It doesn't exist.

At least this time, you did not feel compelled to call me a heathen. But I do have to ask in your many pronouncements of my faith, how you can deny that I am a non-believer just because I do not believe as you? Again, a little humility would go a long way.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
You're delusional.

This is at least the 3rd post of yours that I read today where you make the claim non-EOC believe the EOC should not even exist. OM challenged you to provide 1 post where anyone made that claim. It doesn't exist..
The denial of the 1,500 years of Church history prior to the Protestant Reformation is a de facto claim that the traditional Church should not exist. The Judaizers and Messianic Jews on the forum have come right out and said there should be no Church, the Church's dogma is false, and that we should all live and worship like Jews.

I'm not gong to go searching for posts. I don't have to prove what you already know was said or implied.

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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
... But I do have to ask in your many pronouncements of my faith, how you can deny that I am a non-believer just because I do not believe as you? Again, a little humility would go a long way.
You do not believe in the virgin birth, nor in the divinity of Jesus and the Holy Trinity. Also, being a follower of Tolstoy, I recall that you also mentioned that you don't believe in Adam and Eve and Genesis.

You may be a "believer" in something, but you certainly are NOT a believer in Christianity. Again, a little honesty on your part would go a long way.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:28 PM
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Everything about His Church is a joke to a pseudo-Christian Jew like you. This is why the so-called "Messianic Jews" are considered heretics by most Christians and even denounced by world Jewry.
That's okay...I'm good.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
The denial of the 1,500 years of Church history prior to the Protestant Reformation is a de facto claim that the traditional Church should not exist.
So, despite the fact that many posters are saying explicitly this is NOT what they believe, you know better what others believe better than they do?! You cannot take YES for an answer. Can I do as you do and say you are going to hell?


Pride leads to destruction; humility leads to honor.
Proverbs 18:12 (CEV
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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
You may be a "believer" in something, but you certainly are NOT a believer in Christianity.
I'm OK with not being a believer in Christianity as you understand it. Making this pronouncement is a serious sin, seriously missing the mark. It has no shaming effect on me whatsoever for I hold your assessment of ZERO value!

In case it has escaped your powers of observation, with my constant posting in this thread, continuous reference to Scripture, I follow the teaching of Jesus, like love God & people with your all. Virgin birth, genesis stories and sacramental rituals are beside the point of what I believe. Accept your doctrinal differences with others. Play nice in the sandbox. You'll be happier.


I am not trying to please people. I want to please God. Do you think I am trying to please people? If I were doing that, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:10 (CEV)
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
The denial of the 1,500 years of Church history prior to the Protestant Reformation is a de facto claim that the traditional Church should not exist. The Judaizers and Messianic Jews on the forum have come right out and said there should be no Church, the Church's dogma is false, and that we should all live and worship like Jews.

I'm not gong to go searching for posts. I don't have to prove what you already know was said or implied.



You do not believe in the virgin birth, nor in the divinity of Jesus and the Holy Trinity. Also, being a follower of Tolstoy, I recall that you also mentioned that you don't believe in Adam and Eve and Genesis.

You may be a "believer" in something, but you certainly are NOT a believer in Christianity. Again, a little honesty on your part would go a long way.
I don't remember anyone saying anything about not believing in the "virgin BIRTH". We, at least I, said she wasn't a virgin...she had sexual relations her husband and mothered other children.

Saying virgin birth is also misleading your honor...if anything it was a virgin conception...birth is birth, it's the sex (or in this case lack of sex) that leads to conception...birth a result of the conception. Jesus still went through her birth canal and out her hoo-ha. Virgin birth (IMO) would suggest He came out of her body other than her hoo-ha.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
...In case it has escaped your powers of observation, with my constant posting in this thread, continuous reference to Scripture...
You study Scripture in order to find ammunition to attack the Church. If you can find something to spin or twist to support one of your positions so much the better for you!

You're a propagandist for satan who exploits the chaos sowed by sola scriptura to attack the divinity of Christ and His Church.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
I don't remember anyone saying anything about not believing in the "virgin BIRTH". .
I guess you don't pay much attention to what your crony, Peter Energy, posts. He is a supporter of Tolstoy's belief that the virgin birth is as ridiculous as praying to "the mortal man" Jesus Christ.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
I don't remember anyone saying anything about not believing in the "virgin BIRTH". We, at least I, said she wasn't a virgin...she had sexual relations her husband and mothered other children.

Saying virgin birth is also misleading your honor...if anything it was a virgin conception...birth is birth, it's the sex (or in this case lack of sex) that leads to conception...birth a result of the conception. Jesus still went through her birth canal and out her hoo-ha. Virgin birth (IMO) would suggest He came out of her body other than her hoo-ha.
I'm really glad you made this post. Batko makes so many Appeals to Straman that it is hard to keep up.

You are right that we were recently discussing whether she remained a virgin. However, Batko works himself into a spittle frenzy, invoking Tolstoy and other topics discussed long ago, he may have stated before that believing in the virgin birth is essential for salvation, which I probably disputed.

Thanks again for your observant post.

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Old 06-18-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
You're a propagandist for satan who exploits the chaos sowed by sola scriptura to attack the divinity of Christ and His Church.
Do you actually hear what you are saying???
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Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:54 PM
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Sometimes I get the feeling, and I could be wrong, that Batko does not love me very much.

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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
I guess you don't pay much attention to what your crony, Peter Energy, posts. He is a supporter of Tolstoy's belief that the virgin birth is as ridiculous as praying to "the mortal man" Jesus Christ.
Appeal to Strawman. I have said that I have been positively influenced by the greatest Christian writer of all time, Leo Tolstoy, in his work The Kingdom of God is Within You. For some reason, you want me to defend all of Tolstoy's gyrations and beliefs, which changed over his lifetime.

Last edited by PeterEnergy; 06-18-2019 at 12:57 PM.. Reason: Added Strawman clarification
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
God has no beginning and no end...HE HAS NO MOTHER!!!



Exactly WHAT AM I SAYING that is blasphemy???????

That I do not believe scripture supports you making statues of Mary, bowing to Mary, praying to Mary????

I believe JESUS would agree with me:

I will even use the KJV...Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
You can believe whatever you would like but you insulted His mother. And if she is not the Mother of God than He is not a God. So that tells me EVERYTHING on what you really believe about Jesus. You do not believe He is GOD. If you would believe He is God you would have no problem to say that His Mother gave birth to God.

It does not mean that she created Him or something like that but the act of birth makes her a mother and Jesus being God makes her the Mother of God. But since you do not believe Jesus is God you do not believe she deserves the title of the Mother of God. In this you are united with Peter Energy and Ohioman.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:39 PM
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:40 PM
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I take it that Batko does not accept the one new man of Jew and gentile.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:40 PM
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You can believe whatever you would like ...
Good! I believe there is no intelligent life in the EOC world.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
You can believe whatever you would like but you insulted His mother.
Again I in no way insulted her. If saying she is not to be venerated, bowed down to, pray to, is insulting her, then you are taking too much upon yourself to feel that way.

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And if she is not the Mother of God than He is not a God.
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!! So her human self is instrumental in making Him "A GOD"?????

First of all He is God's Right hand and His Word PERIOD!! (Isaiah 53:1; and John 1:1, 14)

Second, God is ONE (with many facets) PERIOD!!! And there is no other God!

Who does Messiah Yeshua say he is?
https://therefinersfire.org/who_is_he.htm

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So that tells me EVERYTHING on what you really believe about Jesus.
NO, that is just what you want to believe because I don't agree with your dogma.

Quote:
You do not believe He is GOD. If you would believe He is God you would have no problem to say that His Mother gave birth to God.
Mary gave birth to flesh and blood that happened to have the Fathers Divine nature within Him.

Quote:
It does not mean that she created Him or something like that but the act of birth makes her a mother and Jesus being God makes her the Mother of God. But since you do not believe Jesus is God you do not believe she deserves the title of the Mother of God. In this you are united with Peter Energy and Ohioman.
Your making me dizzy with all this spinning of words
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:14 PM
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Mary gave birth to flesh and blood that happened to have the Fathers Divine nature within Him.
So is Jesus God, full Nature of God and of the SAME Essence with God or not?
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:18 PM
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So is Jesus God, full Nature of God and of the SAME Essence with God or not?
You use dogma to bludgeon. It's like every point has to be won by you. Not sure what point you are winning while losing people.
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:28 PM
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You use dogma to bludgeon. It's like every point has to be won by you. Not sure what point you are winning while losing people.
Peter, please work on your Adam and Eve beliefs before joining a conversation about Jesus.
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:31 PM
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Peter, please work on your Adam and Eve beliefs before joining a conversation about Jesus.
1. Do you love PeterEnergy?
2. Who do you identify with in the parable, the Pharisee or the tax collector?
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:34 PM
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1. Do you love PeterEnergy?
2. Who do you identify with in the parable, the Pharisee or the tax collector?
I identify with a reader that is taking wisdom from this parable. As for loving PeterEnergy, you are right there among humanity which I love so much that I will not lie to it but tell the Truth that there is huge probability that 99.99% of them are going to Hell as per their beliefs and deeds.

Now about Adam and Eve. Do you think they existed? I remember you said no. So case closed on any theological discussion with you on Christianity.
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