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Old 06-16-2019, 08:08 PM
Punchy71 Punchy71 is offline
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Default What's the difference between a NONCON pack and a regular, ordinary BUG-OUT pack?



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Hi,
What is the difference between a NONCON pack and a regular, ordinary BUG-OUT pack? (NONCON standing for 'non-consumables').
Most survival kits and Bug Out Bags are packed full of consumable items to help a disaster evacuee survive, independently, for a limited number of days. But what if independent survival is necessary for a longer period of time, or what if a disaster so catastrophic strikes that coming back home is no longer an option? This is where the NONCON pack comes into play.
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punchy71 View Post
what if a disaster so catastrophic strikes that coming back home is no longer an option?
Most people here call that an INCH bag, for I'm Never Coming Home.
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
Most people here call that an INCH bag, for I'm Never Coming Home.
Yeap, the INCH bag has been discussed ad nauseum for several years. General consensus from what I've read and discovered, is that even INCH bags are not independent, long-term survival bags. They may offer more versatility, more specific tools, cover a wider range of season-use, provide a longer term of support, but ultimately, you need a destination that either has supplies or a family/group structure capable of a more independent sustainment.

Not coming home could be due to a wild-fire, significant flood, tornado/hurricane destruction, etc. That may require an INCH or BoB-Plus to just survive at a family/friend's house or even a hotel while insurance is processing. A more regional catastrophe (think Katrina) may cause you to completely relocate. However, grabbing a 100 pound INCH bag and hitting the road or backcountry for long-term, independent survival is pretty much a fictional pipe dream.

For me personally, I've set up an INCH bag, but as an independent survival kit, my "long term" is likely 30-90 days (seasonally dependent) before I would need significant resupply and resources. Even at that, it would have to be a static, resource-rich environment with which to start. Most INCH bags are simply tool heavy for a long range foot-trek. So, even if you're "Not Coming Home", you still need an eventual destination with supplies or more substantial support structure for true long-term survival.

On a more practical level, having a bag, a few totes of clothing and essentials, and all your important documents ready to roll at a moments notice is prudent preparation. The military has always used multiple "bags" for deployments; we had a rucksack, an assault pack, and often two large duffle bags (we called them an A and B bag). It was as multi-bag concept designed for extended deployments (plus we had a bunch of mandatory but unnecessary gear we had to take). I still like this concept as one bag could be tools and clothes, another could be food, fishing/trapping kit, etc. Of course, it's a vehicle-transported kit, but another option and application of an INCH kit.

ROCK6
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:54 AM
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I don't have an INCH bag per se....more a list of tools and tool kits I would be taking, about 1700lbs of gear. Most of these are tools I use so often that It would be impractical to keep them packed but I have a list.

The main focus is massively more food than my BOBs....and the tools to build a log fort.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:27 PM
hardcalibres hardcalibres is offline
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
I don't have an INCH bag per se....more a list of tools and tool kits I would be taking, about 1700lbs of gear. Most of these are tools I use so often that It would be impractical to keep them packed but I have a list.

The main focus is massively more food than my BOBs....and the tools to build a log fort.
Agreed with this and ROCK6's post about INCH bags.

Even the best woodsman in the world would struggle to survive in most forests for years starting only with what they could haul on their back.

But vehicle based INCH kits can provide:
1) Enough gear to build shelter and an agricultural/garden system at some new/undeveloped location
2) Enough gear/supplies to provide all the key capabilities (water, shelter, food, medical, power, mechanical repair, fabrication, defence/security, stealth/concealment, threat detection, remote sensing, mobility, agriculture, communications, hunting, fishing, trapping, foraging etc, etc) for at least several years and up to decades
3) Enough food and other consumable supplies to fill any gap or lag getting to and then setting up at some new location and then to cover the learning curve and any lean years.

That all ends up being tons of gear and supplies (which may be best transported by offroad capable trucks/trailers).

INCH preparedness can be done, but it is one of the most difficult areas of survivalism and requires lots of resources and planning (of where you would go). For most survivalists it is a mountain too tall to climb.

Jerry had some good lists on what he considered for such a capability - maybe he will see this and post his supplies and resources for starting again in a wilderness.

Why bother with INCH preparedness?

Because even the best BOL in the world can get unlucky, be subject to very changed/deteriorated conditions and end up being unsurvivable. If that happens your choices are:
1) Stay and die
2) Go somewhere else safer and set up again from scratch and (maybe) survive
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:00 PM
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I've INCHed out a couple times. One was for a wildfire near the house. Luckily we had an RV and a little time so we could bring pictures and keepsakes, but the necessities went in first. Important papers, food for a couple months, a few guns and plenty of ammo, etc.

It was nice having all the essentials ready to go but it was definitely more than a backpack's worth. Having the important stuff pre-set gave us time to figure out the luxuries, though. I guess we could have gone with just the basics and it would have fit in the SUV, but it wouldn't have been comfortable.

And like most disasters, the community came together to help each other. E.g., we all got free breakfasts at the RV park up the interstate, strangers were taking generators to the Walmart parking lot to loan to other RVers, local shelters had more volunteers and supplies than they could handle, etc. So I had a lot of stuff even though people were helping each other.

For the reality of what most of us will experience, people will help each other like that. The probability that we'll INCH out for a fire/hurricane/tornado/earthquake with the possibility of not returning to our home is MUCH higher than TEOTWAWKI. And in those cases, there is usually aid of some sort for people who need it, and nobody is surviving in the woods out of necessity. So I recommend planning for those real-world events first. You can't be covered for total collapse if you're not ready for whatever local weather disaster is common in your area. In other words, buy insurance before a $500 flashlight, and stock more food and water than you do ammo, etc.

And figure out how to put that stuff in a INCH kit.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:52 PM
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If one could afford it, an enclosed trailer loaded with supplies and copies of documents, photos, etc, in a storage unit that would be outside of a regional disaster would be pretty good insurance to help start over with.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:40 AM
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I believe that a long term evacuarion system must be far more comprehensive than a bug out bag, and should include caching the majority of the supplies and tools. It is simply impossible to carry what you need to survive long term in a single pack. I also believe that is impossible to survive long term without both substantial stores of food and other consumables, plus the tools and weapons to grow and harvest additional food.

Perhaps the best way to illustrate this is to show how my inch system works.

Everyday Carry,
Pistol, Boots, Brimmed Hat, Folding Knife, Cell Phone, Wallet, Keys.

Hydration, Get Home Bag,
2 L Water Bag, Kit Gun, Belt Knife, Leatherman, Micro Light, Nylon Poncho, Liner, Filter Straw, Head Net, Deet, Compass, Lighter, FAK, (2) MREs, Spare Keys.

Evacuation Bags, 30 Day Wilderness Bug Out
Bag A, Fishing Gear, Small Game Weapon, Battle Rifle +200 rds, (4) Steel Traps, 30 days Food Supply, Water Filter, Water Bag, Cooking Gear, Tent, LW Sleeping Bag, Thermarest Pad, Folding shovel, Camp axe, Flashlight, Wyoming saw.

Bag B, Pistol, 20 ga Shotgun, 30 Food Supply, Water Filter, Hydration Bag, LW Sleeping Bag, Thermarest Pad.

Cache 1, Winter Sustainment,
Winter Tent, Portable Wood Stove, (2) HW Sleeping Bags, Thermarest Pads, Fishing Gear, Big Game & Small Game Weapons, (24) Steel Traps, Water Filter, Cook Gear, 700 lbs Food packed in (2) 55 gal drums, Clothing, Boots, Ammo, Farming Tools, Seeds, Financial (Gold, Cash, Insurance), Documents (Professional Degree, Ranch Deed, Maraige License, Family Photos, Vehicle Titles).
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Old 06-21-2019, 03:38 PM
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i do not really have an INCH kit at current, all my eggs are in the "bug in" basket

however at some point i do intend to get a really solid "bug out cart" that would enable me to carry a lot more weight. there's no way i could carry enough on my back alone that would let me survive for a year let alone for years after.

Hick Industries' mention of a cache is a great idea, because the reality is that food will always be a struggle, you cannot really carry enough, and procuring more will be one of the larger struggles you face. also having backups of critical items (tools, sleeping gear, weapons, ammo) are important because if you are somehow robbed or what you have is destroyed, you have a way to not be completely SOL

INCH is imo the worst imaginable scenario besides being too far from home to get home when SHTF.
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Old 06-23-2019, 01:12 PM
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Our version of INCH: ( As in a system for a permanent bugout post TEOTWAWKI)

3 basic categories.

1. Cache program
2. Items carried via individuals
3. Pack animals ( photo below for example)

Note: Vehicles are a possibility, but are not included as a " post wrol " means of transport. ( Mine would be a diesel 4wd 1 ton drw truck with auxiliary fuel tank and an enclosed trailer with an " ARGO" inside , or another trailer with up to 6 pack animals in it....... and wife has her own 1 ton diesel 4wd truck.

Note: After putting various types of hand pushed/ pulled carts most were ruled out for a whole list of reasons, although fabricating them during movement is easy enough....as are animal drawn carts, sleds, and skids.

Note: Item 3 requires the most work/ time / experience iot make it a long term feasible INCH solution. ( Very easy and enticing to over burden a pack critter for example) The effort is worth the reward however. ( Not only in the sheer amount of weight each can carry, but also concerning bulky equipment that is a bit much for individual carry.)

11B
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Old 06-23-2019, 01:31 PM
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+1 for an INCH cart. I want more stuff than I can pack on my back. Shelter (it's the first 3) building tools - your tent will only last so long and I want something substantial, bear resistant for one.

I have some very light reloading gear - Lyman 310 and a deluxe Lee 12 gauge. Brass is heavy and can be loaded many times. Recovered bullets and other lead can be made new with a mold - thus only powder and primers are required if you have the loading gear.

Seeds and books with pic's for foraging. Salt.
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Old 06-23-2019, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemeyer007 View Post
+1 for an INCH cart. I want more stuff than I can pack on my back. Shelter (it's the first 3) building tools - your tent will only last so long and I want something substantial, bear resistant for one.

I have some very light reloading gear - Lyman 310 and a deluxe Lee 12 gauge. Brass is heavy and can be loaded many times. Recovered bullets and other lead can be made new with a mold - thus only powder and primers are required if you have the loading gear.

Seeds and books with pic's for foraging. Salt.
A hand pushed/ pulled cart does have a few drawbacks to it. If you decide to try it out, realize that the cart idea is a very terrain driven item and can also be adversely affected by weather and seasonal changes depending on the region your in and the one you plan to move it too.

Also have a plan to move it ( as well as what is in it) over water obstacles such as rivers and lakes without any bridges safe enough to utilize.)

As with pack animals, if the decision is made to DX the cart, cache what you can't haul off. ( An often over looked but essential part of any cache program imo. )

11B
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:20 PM
TENNGRIZZ TENNGRIZZ is offline
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Frag out is spot on on this one if possible pack animals are the way to go post shtf/wrol roads will not be maintained plus be littered with broken down vehicles etc. , bridges will collapse and all known trails are ideal choke points/ambush sites. JMHO and S/FI! If one does not have the space for pack animals now , store the gear and go on trail rides when possible using other peoples animals in order to familiarize ones self. Bug In first and Bug Out is always the last option. 4X4 vehicles are a must also , I figure if TSHTF tonight we would have at most 5-10 years of cannibalizing spare parts etc. Fuel would vary , depending on location and population density after the first year or 2. War is about Logistics and thus so is Survival post shrf/wrol. JMHO and S/FI!
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:59 PM
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My cart design is trailer for my mountain bike. When I have to ditch the bike, I'll use the trailer as a rickshaw. The goal is to have the stays apply up pressure to my external frame back pack by adjusting the center of gravity of the load, on flat or uphill. For downhill I'll have the cart in front. Width of the cart is just slightly more than my shoulders. Everything will be packed for portage - multiple back pack loads.
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:36 AM
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Can't live out of a pack. Can't live constantly mobile either unless it is some kind of circular route like the migrating Indians did.

The reason is that you cannot hunt/forage/scavenge food consistently enough.

At some point you have to plant food. Even the migrating types had to return to their plantings at some point.

So you will need a BOL somewhere to grow food, even if that's the only thing you do there.

If a BOL is mandatory then why would you want to carry everything on your back? Just pre-locate supplies there.


Those who think they don't need a BOL or not committed to bugging in at their existing home are just fooling themselves.
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