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View Poll Results: Is the phrase 'Hate The Sin; Love the Sinner' accurate doctrine
Yes 11 61.11%
No 7 38.89%
Don't Know 0 0%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-24-2018, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
My source is my experience, my belief system and my relationship to all things. What is your source, parchment?
LOL! Hope that works out for you.



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So, in your view doing these things - feeding the hungry, etc, and not faith in the grace of Jesus - leads to salvation?
You want to re-read my post before asking this question again?

Actually, let's call it a thread. Your choosing to ignore Scripture and history in favor of your experience, belief system and relationship to all things makes further discussion a waste of bytes. Have a good one!
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:04 AM
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The polling stands at
Yes 58%
No 41%

Although I did not vote, I am surprised at how divided the vote is. Those who posted no do not seem to be as active in making their case. Very interesting.
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Cabinet Maker View Post
LOL! Hope that works out for you.
Thank you!

I really appreciate your sincere, good will toward another traveller of life's experience.

Too bad you could not find scripture to support your position. That's OK. I too hope it works out for you.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:00 AM
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PeterEnergy;
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I did not mean to limit the OP to a type of sinner. Just out of curiosity, what categories of sinners do you suppose there are?
I didn't mean to categorize sinners. I was just trying to make my comments clear. I have always heard the comments about "hate the sin, love the sinner to refer to a lost person or one who has not received Jesus Christ as Savior.

God hates all sin. All have sinned. And People who have trusted Christ for the forgiveness of their sins can still sin. A saved person can still lie, cheat, steal and even commit murder. A saved person still has a free will and can choose. The sins of a saved person break fellowship with Christ. Just like a child disobeying a parent may cause the parent child fellowship to be affected. When a saved person confesses their sin, God forgives them. Fellowship is restored. This is the meaning of 1 John 1:9. The relationship as a child of God (a saved person only)was never broken.
1Jn 1:8* If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.*1Jn 1:9* If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.*1Jn 1:10* If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.*

Also part of the meaning of Jesus washing the feet of the Disciples in John 13:4-10.

The only difference I would make is that a saved person who sins is still saved from the punishment of death, eternal separation in Hell/Lake of Fire. An unsaved person is not, because of John 3:18* He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.*
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:31 AM
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PeterEnergy is a sinner. His only hope for redemption is Jesus Christ. PeterEnergy does not have any other satisfying plan for redemption. Even non-belief in the need of redemption is not a satisfying plan. If PeterEnergy is to be washed from his sin he will need Jesus Christ to do it for him, but PeterEnergy needs to love Jesus Christ and beg for mercy before God (Jesus Chirst) will consider to wash him. If PeterEnergy does not beg for mercy because he does not believe in Jesus Christ he will be lost forever no matter what PeterEnergy believes now or even after his death.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by pinkerpv View Post
PeterEnergy;
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I did not mean to limit the OP to a type of sinner. Just out of curiosity, what categories of sinners do you suppose there are?
I didn't mean to categorize sinners. I was just trying to make my comments clear. I have always heard the comments about "hate the sin, love the sinner to refer to a lost person or one who has not received Jesus Christ as Savior.
Hmm. I don't think the saying has anything to do with a practicing Christian. That is, a practicing Christian is still a sinner.

OTOH, odds are a practicing Christian is putting this adage to his approach to dealing with others.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabinet Maker View Post
God loves everything He created, even Satan.
"16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 6:16-19

I would focus particularly on 17, 18, and 19.

God is quite directly saying that he hates not just the lying, the shedding of innocent bood, the wicked imaginations, the mischief, the lies, and the discord...but the tongue, hands, heart, feet, witness, and individual responsible for said acts.

Where is "hate the sin, love the sinner" found in scripture again?
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Old 05-25-2018, 04:31 PM
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The answer isn't as simple as the poll options. Hate is a strong word. More than I dislike sin, I wish there were more of love thy neighbor.
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Old 05-25-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Levant View Post
The answer isn't as simple as the poll options. Hate is a strong word. More than I dislike sin, I wish there were more of love thy neighbor.
What other options do you see; the phrase accurately sums up doctrine or it does not? Your neighbor is a sinner.
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Old 05-26-2018, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
What other options do you see; the phrase accurately sums up doctrine or it does not? Your neighbor is a sinner.
I don't know that I hate the sin. Many sins are in the dislike category. Most thefts, for instance, don't leave major permanent harm on the victims and aren't necessarily committed by violent criminals. I don't like it but it doesn't elicit the emotional level of hate. And I dislike those sinners as well.

Other sins, such as intentionally harming children, I absolutely hate. But I hate those sinners, too.

So my emotional state regarding sin goes the full gamut from don't care up to hate and my emotional feelings for sinners, depending on the person and the sin, goes from don't care through hate and all the way to love. And everything in between for both.

It seems that the idea for hate the sin and love the sinner stems from judge not that ye be not judged combined with love thy neighbor as thyself.

There's no commandment to hate sin; there's only definition of what is sin. And then there's the commandment that we not judge and that we love our neighbor.

If I am on a jury for a murder trial, I may be asked to judge against the law but I should never judge whether that murder was a sin. So there's no instance of sin, other than my own, that I can make any judgment as to whether that explicit instance is a sin so how can I say that I hate the sin and love the sinner?

With that said, it's all theory because, being a sinner myself, my biggest sin is probably that I do judge but my judgment is meaningless except to raise my own blood pressure.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levant View Post
So my emotional state regarding sin goes the full gamut from don't care up to hate and my emotional feelings for sinners
I suspect that is a function of your varying love for who is sinned against (God & others) as well as who does the sinning, e.g., "petty" theft -v premeditated murder.

I agree there is a severity range of sin. An arrogant teenager is part of the growing up process. MS-13 gang members initiation requirement to commit murder is a bit more severe than a teen who thinks she knows it all.

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Originally Posted by Levant View Post
And then there's the commandment that we not judge
I do not think NOT judging is a commandment, although I admit many believe that.

In my study, the phrase is misinterpreted as it is a literary tool to advise one to be careful by what standard you use to judge others for that same standard will be used against you. In short, the phrase is a warning not to be a hypocrite. I'm interested to know what other think about this passage.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
I suspect that is a function of your varying love for who is sinned against (God & others) as well as who does the sinning, e.g., "petty" theft -v premeditated murder.

I agree there is a severity range of sin. An arrogant teenager is part of the growing up process. MS-13 gang members initiation requirement to commit murder is a bit more severe than a teen who thinks she knows it all.



I do not think NOT judging is a commandment, although I admit many believe that.

In my study, the phrase is misinterpreted as it is a literary tool to advise one to be careful by what standard you use to judge others for that same standard will be used against you. In short, the phrase is a warning not to be a hypocrite. I'm interested to know what other think about this passage.
Very good analysis. I agree that my views are most certainly colored by my own flaws, sins, excuses for those sins, etc.

I just hope that what little good I do in the world outweighs my lack of love for those that I judge to be sinners. It might go bad for me.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Levant View Post
I just hope that what little good I do in the world outweighs my lack of .
Agreed. However, that is a matter of judgment while the expression "hate the sin, love the sinner" is a matter of relationship.

Knowing none are perfect, how are we to deal with each other? Eternally condemning each other's perfections? Unlikely.

Seems to me we are to act compassionately toward one another in striving to over come our trials and tribulations, including the suffering we bring on ourselves from our sin, our short coming.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:18 AM
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I've read all the post and the polling numbers. Polling numbers on anything are simply peoples stated opinions of the choices given. Not facts. As for what God thinks about this, it's pretty clearly stated in his word. If any of us disagree with God or what appears to be his view from scripture, or even scripture itself, then we disagree. Facts are not changed. Opinions are not facts. Some alignment possible.

Pick any major topic from food to prepping. From the environment to economics and a vast majority of people will have opinions all over the board and most will not align very accurately with actual facts. We are all way too subjective, emotion driven, and far over estimate our own opinions. It's just human nature.
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Old 05-26-2018, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fidalgoman View Post
I've read all the post and the polling numbers. Polling numbers on anything are simply peoples stated opinions of the choices given. Not facts. As for what God thinks about this, it's pretty clearly stated in his word. If any of us disagree with God or what appears to be his view from scripture, or even scripture itself, then we disagree. Facts are not changed. Opinions are not facts. Some alignment possible.

Pick any major topic from food to prepping. From the environment to economics and a vast majority of people will have opinions all over the board and most will not align very accurately with actual facts. We are all way too subjective, emotion driven, and far over estimate our own opinions. It's just human nature.
I don't overestimate my opinions. My opinions are all correct. I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Agreed. However, that is a matter of judgment while the expression "hate the sin, love the sinner" is a matter of relationship.
Sin is a consequence of evil.

"O you who love the Lord, hate evil"

"hate the sin, love the sinner" first requires a definition of love before a response can even be deliberated let alone stated. And until a person states how they define love, their statements are meaningless.


Greg
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:10 AM
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The recent thread on Orthodox marching for family and against the homosexual agenda reminded me of this thread.
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