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Old 04-17-2017, 09:40 AM
bob_loblaw bob_loblaw is offline
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If you can't afford real training, good equipment, and plenty of training ammo, your money is far better spent on a book like "Manwatching" by Desmond Morris. IMO, learning how to recognize human behavior in the realm of violence is far more likely to save your life than a $200 used carry gun, no ammo, and bad training.

https://www.amazon.com/Manwatching-F.../dp/0810921847

Spend the $6. Or heck, the library probably has a copy. The goal is self-defense. A legal firearm on your person is but one path to that goal.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:44 AM
Gator Monroe Gator Monroe is offline
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Originally Posted by bob_loblaw View Post
If you can't afford real training, good equipment, and plenty of training ammo, your money is far better spent on a book like "Manwatching" by Desmond Morris. IMO, learning how to recognize human behavior in the realm of violence is far more likely to save your life than a $200 used carry gun, no ammo, and bad training.

https://www.amazon.com/Manwatching-F.../dp/0810921847

Spend the $6. Or heck, the library probably has a copy. The goal is self-defense. A legal firearm on your person is but one path to that goal.
Having a firearm for self defense is the first path ,the very first inviting trail off that path should be a carry permit (especially if your state is not Constitutional Carry)
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:45 AM
bob_loblaw bob_loblaw is offline
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Another tip: don't be afraid to offer something in trade. Most firearms instructors are small business owners and aren't opposed to barter. I'm aware of many barter deals to get the training you want, some include small construction projects, babysitting, who knows. Don't be afraid to think outside the box.

I've even given away free classes before, depending on the person's situation. A deployed spouse or recent violent crime is an easy ticket to a free class in my book.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:46 AM
Gator Monroe Gator Monroe is offline
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Another tip: don't be afraid to offer something in trade. Most firearms instructors are small business owners and aren't opposed to barter. I'm aware of many barter deals to get the training you want, some include small construction projects, babysitting, who knows. Don't be afraid to think outside the box.

I've even given away free classes before, depending on the person's situation. A deployed spouse or recent violent crime is an easy ticket to a free class in my book.
This is a wonderful reply ^
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:54 AM
bob_loblaw bob_loblaw is offline
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Having a firearm for self defense is the first path ,the very first inviting trail off that path should be a carry permit (especially if your state is not Constitutional Carry)
I don't see this as the case at all. Avoiding violence is the first path, at least for me. Lower your personal threat profile as much as you can.

The next path is de-escalation. A lot of violent crime could be avoided with a sincere apology. Avoid the monkey dance.

There are multiple physical options that don't involve the use of a firearm. Some of them do, which is why I recommend good training. But the gun is never my first option and I suspect it isn't your first option, either.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:04 AM
Gator Monroe Gator Monroe is offline
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I don't see this as the case at all. Avoiding violence is the first path, at least for me. Lower your personal threat profile as much as you can.

The next path is de-escalation. A lot of violent crime could be avoided with a sincere apology. Avoid the monkey dance.

There are multiple physical options that don't involve the use of a firearm. Some of them do, which is why I recommend good training. But the gun is never my first option and I suspect it isn't your first option, either.
Its my first and only (If someone closes distance and attacks or threatens me with death or grievous bodily injury) I will not go toe to toe with a youngster bent on knocking me to the ground & pummeling me ,or have a pair of fighting sticks handy or dare a knife fight ... The days of fisticuffs & taking it outside are long over for me and 21st century Americans ...
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:13 AM
bob_loblaw bob_loblaw is offline
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Its my first and only (If someone closes distance and attacks or threatens me with death or grievous bodily injury) I will not go toe to toe with a youngster bent on knocking me to the ground & pummeling me ,or have a pair of fighting sticks handy or dare a knife fight ... The days of fisticuffs & taking it outside are long over for me and 21st century Americans ...
Different question, then. How do you know, specifically, when someone "closes distance and attacks or threatens me with death or grievous bodily injury?" We can't just go around shooting everyone who gets within attack range (and what, specifically, is attack range?).

My point is this: there is good training available out there in the world, much of it for free or very inexpensive, that has a higher likelihood of saving your life than carrying a firearm. I've carried a gun nearly every day for many years, and while it has come out of my holster, I've never had to use it (thank God). But I've avoided or de-escalated who-knows-how many potentially violent situations. If the gun/training/CHP/holster/ammo/belt is too expensive for someone now, then focus your time and money on the activities that are affordable and critical to avoiding and de-escalating the violence in the first place.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:02 AM
Gator Monroe Gator Monroe is offline
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Different question, then. How do you know, specifically, when someone "closes distance and attacks or threatens me with death or grievous bodily injury?" We can't just go around shooting everyone who gets within attack range (and what, specifically, is attack range?).

My point is this: there is good training available out there in the world, much of it for free or very inexpensive, that has a higher likelihood of saving your life than carrying a firearm. I've carried a gun nearly every day for many years, and while it has come out of my holster, I've never had to use it (thank God). But I've avoided or de-escalated who-knows-how many potentially violent situations. If the gun/training/CHP/holster/ammo/belt is too expensive for someone now, then focus your time and money on the activities that are affordable and critical to avoiding and de-escalating the violence in the first place.
If someone wants to give me a hug is different than getting whacked in the head from behind with a 2x4 at a Mini Mart while filling Gas Tank at night and not keeping tabs on my six ... I have not drawn my EDC piece in almost 7 years of CCW and hope my luck holds out longer also ...
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:11 AM
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R_Jacobs18 R_Jacobs18 is offline
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My Constitutional right costs about $500 and is up to the discretion of our Sheriff, who has made it clear he requires "good cause", which disgustingly is "a threat to life which cannot be resolved with normal police activity" or, more commonly, "I'm a rich business owner who transports large sums of money and would thus be targeted for a robbery".

Seriously, that's an example. I wholeheartedly plan on working HARD against him during his reelection campaign. Shoot, I'll play every angle I can to get that scumbag out of there, even if it means catering to the black bloc.


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Old 04-17-2017, 11:40 AM
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You misunderstood me. I didn't say that no one makes a living teaching people about weapons and tactics. .
Sure you did,

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I'm not aware of any instructors that make a living teaching mandatory concealed carry classes.
And you are in the industry:

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I'm saying that as a concealed carry instructor here in Ohio.
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As a first time CCW holder, you should be spending somewhere in the $400-$600 range on initial training and at least that much annually thereafter. That's just my opinion of course, but I believe that the more competent people are at this stuff, the better off we'll all be.
So of course you will defend spending more for people to exercise their rights, after all you have a net gain to be had from supporting this position.
And There is a whole industry built around this due to the prevailing mentality, like yours, that everyone who carries a gun MUST have proof of an accredited training curriculum in states that have these requirements.
The business owners of training facilities don't want the "mandatory" part to go away, And will do anything to protect their bread and butter.
I believe the firearm training industry will even go so far as to push politicians to enact laws to ensure these mandatory requirements in states which do not currently have them through reciprocity agreement conditions.
So PA won't be accepted in State X due to the fact we do not have "mandatory Training requirements" We cannot carry concealed there. without a Non resident Permit from Utah, Of which one cannot be purchased without the mandatory training requirement.
I believe it should be voluntary, anything else is infringing on your rights. And mandatory training and excessive costs for obtaining the permit is discriminating against the people whom need these permits more than anyone, the poor, infirm or women with immediate danger to themselves.
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