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Old Today, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MikThundercloud View Post
It is amazing to me that the minute someone moves to the Washington DC area, they suddenly lose all their memory of what we all learned in elementary school. Maybe the problem is something in the air or water there.

We all learned that many, many years ago, the earth was very warm, with jungles and swamps, just about everywhere. Then, over a million years or so, came the Ice Age, when the dinosaurs mostly died off and the jungles and swamps were buried, and are now coal and oil reserves. Then millions of years later, the earth warmed again.

Geologists can identify several of these cycles of warming and cooling over more years than I can comprehend. No humans, no factories, no pollution.... WOW! Just a NATURAL progression of the the planetary cycles. Climate change is NORMAL. Humans MIGHT be able to influence SLIGHTLY the short-term effects for a year or two, but the climate WILL change!

It is both IGNORANT and CONCEITED to believe we are MORE powerful than the Earth and the Sun and the whole Universe.

People have ALWAYS moved to places that suit their needs, and later whole populations have moved to other, "BETTER" locations. A few year ago, I lived in a small town, Fort White, Florida, that was almost exactly 1 mile by 1 mile square, about 2 miles from a bridge across a beautiful river. I learned that the town originally was built by a lumber mill beside that bridge at the mill, but after several successful years of development, they had several bad floods as the river rose into the town. The mill gave land they had cleared up on a small rise, just 2 miles away, and rebuilt the town. Everyone moved.
That river had a history of flooding dating back before there were any settlers in the area, but the mill location and $$MONEY$$ made it a good location. Until it wasn't.

At one time (many years ago) I lived on Miami Beach, Florida. The beach there erodes naturally and would be a skinny bit of sand past some palm trees at high tide, but the city spends millions to pump sand from the ocean floor up onto the beach each year, making it big and beautiful for the tourists. Most of the buildings were built pre- WWII.

How long can a building last? How long can Miami Beach Last?

Just about as long as it makes financial sense to keep rebuilding and repairing.....
Dude, you are such a killjoy. You will never have a career as a charlatan if you keep using logic like that.
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Old Today, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MikThundercloud View Post
It is both IGNORANT and CONCEITED to believe we are MORE powerful than the Earth and the Sun and the whole Universe.
No one except you with your strawman argument suggested that 'we' are
more powerful than the Earth and the Sun.

I am not more powerful than a swimming pool, but if I keep ****ing in it a pool, eventually it is full of ****.

Similarly, we can calculate that releasing GIGATONNES of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere raises the amount of C02 in the atmosphere.
Not as much as we actually released, however, some of it gets absorbed in the oceans and some is absorbed by accelerated plant growth ( until that burns )...
However, 'we' have raised the C02 level from 270 to 413 ppm and now it goes up about 2.5 ppm EVERY year - and is accelerating.
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Originally Posted by tiberius View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikThundercloud View Post
It is both IGNORANT and CONCEITED to believe we are MORE powerful than the Earth and the Sun and the whole Universe.
No one except you with your strawman argument suggested that 'we' are
more powerful than the Earth and the Sun.

I am not more powerful than a swimming pool, but if I keep ****ing in it a pool, eventually it is full of ****.

Similarly, we can calculate that releasing GIGATONNES of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere raises the amount of C02 in the atmosphere.
Not as much as we actually released, however, some of it gets absorbed in the oceans and some is absorbed by accelerated plant growth ( until that burns )...
However, 'we' have raised the C02 level from 270 to 413 ppm and now it goes up about 2.5 ppm EVERY year - and is accelerating.
Nice strawman yourself.
Yes we can calculate the amount of carbon dioxide we release into the atmosphere and deduce that this contributes in some manner to the increase in CO2 levels.
This conveniently ignores any natural increase in CO2 levels.
These increased levels of CO2 correlating with an increase in temperature doesn't prove correlation.
It also ignores historical evidence of far higher levels of atmospheric CO2, long before man contributed in any way to the release of atmospheric gases of any kind.
It also ignores the fact that vegetation requires higher levels of CO2 at higher temperatures.
It also ignores the fact that nature always seeks a state of homeostasis, therefore should temperatures rise in a natural cycle nature would seek to raise CO2 levels accordingly.
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Originally Posted by tiberius View Post
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Originally Posted by MikThundercloud View Post
It is both IGNORANT and CONCEITED to believe we are MORE powerful than the Earth and the Sun and the whole Universe.
No one except you with your strawman argument suggested that 'we' are
more powerful than the Earth and the Sun.

I am not more powerful than a swimming pool, but if I keep ****ing in it a pool, eventually it is full of ****.

Similarly, we can calculate that releasing GIGATONNES of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere raises the amount of C02 in the atmosphere.
Not as much as we actually released, however, some of it gets absorbed in the oceans and some is absorbed by accelerated plant growth ( until that burns )...
However, 'we' have raised the C02 level from 270 to 413 ppm and now it goes up about 2.5 ppm EVERY year - and is accelerating.
Nice strawman yourself.
Yes we can calculate the amount of carbon dioxide we release into the atmosphere and deduce that this contributes in some manner to the increase in CO2 levels.
This conveniently ignores any natural increase in CO2 levels.
These increased levels of CO2 correlating with an increase in temperature doesn't prove correlation.
It also ignores historical evidence of far higher levels of atmospheric CO2, long before man contributed in any way to the release of atmospheric gases of any kind.
It also ignores the fact that vegetation requires higher levels of CO2 at higher temperatures.
It also ignores the fact that nature always seeks a state of homeostasis, therefore should temperatures rise in a natural cycle nature would seek to raise CO2 levels accordingly.
Can't edit on my phone. The second correlation should read causation.
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This conveniently ignores any natural increase in CO2 levels.
These increased levels of CO2 correlating with an increase in temperature doesn't prove correlation.
We know the ISOTOPES of the carbon atoms via carbon dating.
We know how many of them are from ancient source ( e.g. fossil fuels ).
Yes, they are our ones, the ones we burnt.

They don't rely on correlation, we know EXPERIMENTALLY the effect of C02.
You can send UV through a tube full of gas.
You can swap the gas from pure oxygen, pure, nitrogen, pure C02.
This is an OLD experiment. Google is your friend - don't be an arsehole.
No mystery, no reliance on correlation, its is bog-standard science that is utterly irrefutable.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterEdwards View Post
This conveniently ignores any natural increase in CO2 levels.
These increased levels of CO2 correlating with an increase in temperature doesn't prove correlation.
We know the ISOTOPES of the carbon atoms via carbon dating.
We know how many of them are from ancient source ( e.g. fossil fuels ).
Yes, they are our ones, the ones we burnt.

They don't rely on correlation, we know EXPERIMENTALLY the effect of C02.
You can send infrared through a tube full of gas.
You can swap the gas from pure oxygen, pure, nitrogen, pure C02.
This is an OLD experiment. Google is your friend - don't be an arsehole.
No mystery, no reliance on correlation, its is bog-standard science that is utterly irrefutable.
And these experiments prove that the temperature of the atmosphere is increasing due to carbon dioxide. This is why the predictions based on models using the data learned in such experiments are so accurate.

Sarcasm lock off.
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Old Today, 02:52 PM
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And these experiments prove that the temperature of the atmosphere is increasing due to carbon dioxide. This is why the predictions based on models using the data learned in such experiments are so accurate.

Sarcasm lock off.
Predictions of overall climate are so far pretty accurate.
However, they will seriously underestimate things as we get to tipping points not thus far breached. E.g. releasing all that frozen methane in the tundra.

Modeling of the atmospheric composition and the direct effect thereof is quite easy compared to the modeling of:
a) clouds
b) ocean acidification and currents
c) changing land use.
d) ice loss
d) specific tipping point effects.
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Old Today, 02:53 PM
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And these experiments prove that the temperature of the atmosphere is increasing due to carbon dioxide. This is why the predictions based on models using the data learned in such experiments are so accurate.

Sarcasm lock off.
What predictions are wrong specifically? I found this, it appears that measurements fit inside the model error region just fine.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factchec...global-warming

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What predictions are wrong specifically? I found this, it appears that measurements fit inside the model error region just fine.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factchec...global-warming

Yes indeed. There are oodles of models.
Anyone can read the IPCC reports and get links to the very many models it summarises.
The models are pretty accurate for the current climate paradigm. However, it will all go a bit non-linear before too long...
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