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Old 06-01-2019, 08:47 PM
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I visited a fellow prepper this week and this issue really hit home for me. After quite a long history of "I'm gonna do it, yea, definitely next year, and when I get time," he finally planted the most half hearted poorly thought out "garden" I've ever seen. Out of the 5 local preppers I know, only one knows his way around the garden.

Growing our own food is arguably THE most important roll of prepping. Period. Stored food will run out, game will be hunted dry. Yet this topic usually comes in about 15th on the to-do list. Storing seeds is not enough. It is the same as buying a gun and never firing it. Gardening is trial and error. You WILL fail, and through that learn. Unless you fail now, you will fail when your life depends on it.

You still have time this season. Get out and stop finding excuses.
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:02 PM
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Absolutely right! Not only that, but depending on your soil conditions, it can take several years of building the soil until you are getting a full harvest. It can also take several years before the "permaculture" plants (things like artichokes, asparagus, berry bushes, grape vines, fruit/nut trees, and other perennials) are producing.

Gardening is NOT taking out your "survival seed bank" and planting those seeds and expecting to reap a full harvest. People will starve waiting for those plants to mature to harvest (it can take MONTHS, people!) that is IF all of their plants survive (NOT bloody likely!) Insects, birds, rodents, and other critters are just waiting to gobble up those seeds and young plants. Gardening takes WORK, and TIME! The sooner you start, the better. Gardening is one of those things that you can NOT leave until the last minute.
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:56 PM
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I am trying so hard to get a productive garden going this year. The gophers have been horrendous! I have used traps, gas bombs and poison grain. The last surviving gopher teases me every day by digging a new hole and standing up and watching me. Fortunately I have replacement plants in the greenhouse and it is still early in the season. Eventually we will probably make raised beds with wire on the bottom when we get too old to fight the varmints.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by hanzy4200 View Post
Growing our own food is arguably THE most important roll of prepping.
Not counting the misspelling, you are using the word role wrong, and even then factually flawed.

Maybe if you had used the word iob instead of role, or substituted in for of then the sentence could be considered grammatically correct, if not factually.

Dispensing with the grammar nazi business, your intended concept fails for many reasons because there is no preeminent skill in prepping, even though some may have more useful value than others. But you can always find some job you try to elevate to the top become dependent on other ones. Plus the truth is that you can produce lots of food without ever having to garden because you embraced permaculture. Lots of members get a ton of food without a garden plot.

But the fact is that if you don't know how to process and cook food from raw produce you are out in a ton of labor just to watch it rot. Also, if you can't defend such food then again you have put in a lot of labor for nothing. And let's not forget that you can never grow one shred of B12 from a plant. Speaking of nutrition, you could grow a ton of food and still die of malnutrition because you didn't learn nutrition and different values for each plant you grow.

I'm fine with you saying that gardening is an important prepping skill, but when you try to elevate it above all else with hyperbole you end up ruining your message with a litany of falsehoods.

Lastly, why are you using the wrong board? We have a gardening section already. It exists for a reason, chiefly not to bury this general board with every niche interest.

If you want to talk about gardening then you need to go here: https://www.survivalistboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:53 AM
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My wife and I have four large planter boxes, and we're going to install a 5th next year. Even then, it CANNOT generate enough food to support us on one round of crops. Now that we have another freezer hooked up and a vacuum sealer, that should extend food stores by a couple weeks. I'd still need to convert my entire backyard for crops. Already has a sprinkler system, right?
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:44 AM
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Gardening takes WORK, and TIME! The sooner you start, the Gardening is one of those things that you can NOT leave until the last minute.
And skill and knowledge, and experience. You aren't gonna get them overnight from a book written by someone in an entirely different set of conditions.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:25 AM
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I'd still need to convert my entire backyard for crops. Already has a sprinkler system, right?
Grass will be your toughest weed in a new garden. You should really use a whole growing season just to get rid of it, another reason to start now rather than waiting until something bad happens. What most will do is to fallow the area, meaning to till the area, and retill every time weeds and grass start showing up. Do that for and entire growing season.

You will find that grass growing around your sprinkler heads and the boundaries of the garden will be very difficult to get rid of. I would use a glysophate product for that, but go ahead and prove me right. Don't use too much, it takes quite awhile for it to work, and over applying will just burn off the tops and not kill the roots.

Your sprinkler system will be nice if it still works after SHTF. Maybe no water pressure!!! But, watch out, some systems are buried so shallow that a rototiller will tear them up. And, the sprinkler heads are designed for a manicured lawn. They wont work when the lush veggies you plant cover them up. You will need to extend them higher. The system was designed for the sprayers that you have now. Replace them with the exact equivalent designed without the pop up, or just use the pop up heads, but wind will be harder on them.

Yup, gardens are work, but so is tending a worthless lawn. And it is theraputic to go pull a few weeds in the evening after the everyday job.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Not counting the misspelling, you are using the word role wrong, and even then factually flawed.

Maybe if you had used the word iob instead of role, or substituted in for of then the sentence could be considered grammatically correct, if not factually.

Dispensing with the grammar nazi business, your intended concept fails for many reasons because there is no preeminent skill in prepping, even though some may have more useful value than others. But you can always find some job you try to elevate to the top become dependent on other ones. Plus the truth is that you can produce lots of food without ever having to garden because you embraced permaculture. Lots of members get a ton of food without a garden plot.

But the fact is that if you don't know how to process and cook food from raw produce you are out in a ton of labor just to watch it rot. Also, if you can't defend such food then again you have put in a lot of labor for nothing. And let's not forget that you can never grow one shred of B12 from a plant. Speaking of nutrition, you could grow a ton of food and still die of malnutrition because you didn't learn nutrition and different values for each plant you grow.

I'm fine with you saying that gardening is an important prepping skill, but when you try to elevate it above all else with hyperbole you end up ruining your message with a litany of falsehoods.

Lastly, why are you using the wrong board? We have a gardening section already. It exists for a reason, chiefly not to bury this general board with every niche interest.

If you want to talk about gardening then you need to go here: https://www.survivalistboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13
Well it's easy to see who isn't growing a substantial garden this year.....

So because protecting the garden, preserving food, and knowing nutritional information (BS) is important, gardening isn't the top priority? What are you going to protect and preserve genius?

Permaculture is great. You can't sustain a family and farm animals on permaculture. Considering no group or society in the entire history of mankind has survived without farming/gardening. While the older single hippie living in Florida may come close, the family of 7 living in Montana is not the same. I would consider that argument over.

You won't starve without nutritional information. Half the world survives on rice, beans, and bananas. If you don't have enough vitamins to last you 5+ years, you need to rethink your preps.

I do not mean to sound condescending, but if you honestly believe that within the first 1-2 years of an event you are going to be forming a commune of people and bartering your skills and resources, you are dreaming. Or reading to many SHTF novels.

You really should go plant a garden. You would gain some great skills and as it is very relaxing it might help you amend that anal mindset.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumWill View Post
My wife and I have four large planter boxes, and we're going to install a 5th next year. Even then, it CANNOT generate enough food to support us on one round of crops. Now that we have another freezer hooked up and a vacuum sealer, that should extend food stores by a couple weeks. I'd still need to convert my entire backyard for crops. Already has a sprinkler system, right?
Even with just 4 large planter boxes, you are gaining valuable knowledge. I have 4 decent sized 30'x75' plots, as well as 4 large raised beds, the largest being 4'x14'x24" (hauled all the soil by hand, uphill, never again). Even with this, I can't produce all my own produce all year, but I'm getting darn close. Everything has to start somewhere. Just keep at it.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:06 PM
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Well it's easy to see who isn't growing a substantial garden this year.....
Easier for you to assume and accuse, rather than admit fault I guess.

I've run a decent garden since I bought my house over 20 years ago. I just know enough to understand the flaw in your thinking.

Quote:
So because protecting the garden, preserving food, and knowing nutritional information (BS) is important, gardening isn't the top priority? What are you going to protect and preserve genius?
Circular reasoning reasoning fallacy.

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Permaculture is great. You can't sustain a family and farm animals on permaculture. Considering no group or society in the entire history of mankind has survived without farming/gardening. While the older single hippie living in Florida may come close, the family of 7 living in Montana is not the same. I would consider that argument over.
Clearly you didn't learn enough about permaculture. We have a SB member that lives in northern Manitoba raising a family on permaculture food. Permaculture keeps working even when annual growing seasons end.

You would know this if you had used the proper forum board before you went on an ignorant rant.

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You won't starve without nutritional information. Half the world survives on rice, beans, and bananas. If you don't have enough vitamins to last you 5+ years, you need to rethink your preps.
The casual toss-put of the ignorant. You wouldn't last a year on a diet of just rice, beans, and bananas without permanent damage or death.

People feel starving for years and live just fine. As an intravenous nutritionist I can feed you from an IV bag and keep you alive indefinitely.

But nutrient deficiency deaths come in over a dozen types with only one commonality, a very painful wasting death.

Again, what will you do without B12? I know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency

A mild deficiency may not cause any discernible symptoms, but as the deficiency becomes more significant, symptoms of anemia may result, such as weakness, fatigue, light-headedness, rapid heartbeat, rapid breathing and pale color to the skin. It may also cause easy bruising or bleeding, including bleeding gums, gastrointestinal side effects including sore tongue, stomach upset, weight loss, and diarrhea or constipation. If the deficiency is not corrected, nerve cell damage can result. If this happens, vitamin B12 deficiency may result in tingling or numbness to the fingers and toes, difficulty walking, mood changes, depression, memory loss, disorientation and, in severe cases, dementia. Vitamin B12 deficiency can cause severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system. These symptoms of neuronal damage may not reverse after correction of blood abnormalities, and the chance of complete reversal decreases with the length of time the neurological symptoms have been present.

Vitamins have true expiration dates and none will last 5 years.

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I do not mean to sound condescending, but if you honestly believe that within the first 1-2 years of an event you are going to be forming a commune of people and bartering your skills and resources, you are dreaming. Or reading to many SHTF novels.
Again, the confidence of the ignorant. I've forgotten more than you will ever know. I was prepping before it was called prepping. Barter? Why are you deficient in your needs?

Speaking of reading too many novels, you assume an utter collapse of the global system, which hasn't happened yet in the entirety of recorded history. Talk about living in a fantasy world.

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You really should go plant a garden. You would gain some great skills and as it is very relaxing it might help you amend that anal mindset.
My tomatoes are going to be wonderful again this year and you will still be as ignorant as ever.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:28 PM
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Not counting the misspelling, you are using the word role wrong, and even then factually flawed.
It'd be nice if people could share information and constructive criticism without being arrogant jerks too.

Good old fashioned social skills will go a long way toward helping all of us in a bad situation, whether a temporary emergency or big grid-down and chaos event.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:39 PM
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Easier for you to assume and accuse, rather than admit fault I guess.

I've run a decent garden since I bought my house over 20 years ago. I just know enough to understand the flaw in your thinking.



Circular reasoning reasoning fallacy.



Clearly you didn't learn enough about permaculture. We have a SB member that lives in northern Manitoba raising a family on permaculture food. Permaculture keeps working even when annual growing seasons end.

You would know this if you had used the proper forum board before you went on an ignorant rant.



The casual toss-put of the ignorant. You wouldn't last a year on a diet of just rice, beans, and bananas without permanent damage or death.

People feel starving for years and live just fine. As an intravenous nutritionist I can feed you from an IV bag and keep you alive indefinitely.

But nutrient deficiency deaths come in over a dozen types with only one commonality, a very painful wasting death.

Again, what will you do without B12? I know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency

A mild deficiency may not cause any discernible symptoms, but as the deficiency becomes more significant, symptoms of anemia may result, such as weakness, fatigue, light-headedness, rapid heartbeat, rapid breathing and pale color to the skin. It may also cause easy bruising or bleeding, including bleeding gums, gastrointestinal side effects including sore tongue, stomach upset, weight loss, and diarrhea or constipation. If the deficiency is not corrected, nerve cell damage can result. If this happens, vitamin B12 deficiency may result in tingling or numbness to the fingers and toes, difficulty walking, mood changes, depression, memory loss, disorientation and, in severe cases, dementia. Vitamin B12 deficiency can cause severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system. These symptoms of neuronal damage may not reverse after correction of blood abnormalities, and the chance of complete reversal decreases with the length of time the neurological symptoms have been present.

Vitamins have true expiration dates and none will last 5 years.



Again, the confidence of the ignorant. I've forgotten more than you will ever know. I was prepping before it was called prepping. Barter? Why are you deficient in your needs?

Speaking of reading too many novels, you assume an utter collapse of the global system, which hasn't happened yet in the entirety of recorded history. Talk about living in a fantasy world.



My tomatoes are going to be wonderful again this year and you will still be as ignorant as ever.

Well you're just a professional at everything! Wow! Maybe you should use your incredible knowledge to be an attribute here instead of acting like a 15 year old internet troll. Not wasting my time addressing all your rambling. You don't like my opinion? That's fine, I don't care a bit. Clearly neither does anyone else here. Sadly, you'll still be a prick long after tomato season.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:52 PM
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It'd be nice if people could share information and constructive criticism without being arrogant jerks too.

Good old fashioned social skills will go a long way toward helping all of us in a bad situation, whether a temporary emergency or big grid-down and chaos event.
Amen brother. I do my best not to let people like these waste my time. Doesn't always work.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:11 PM
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Well you're just a professional at everything! Wow! Maybe you should use your incredible knowledge to be an attribute here instead of acting like a 15 year old internet troll. Not wasting my time addressing all your rambling. You don't like my opinion? That's fine, I don't care a bit. Clearly neither does anyone else here. Sadly, you'll still be a prick long after tomato season.
You mean support your flawed theory or contribute to these forums. I'm not going to pitch in on flawed premises and I've contributed 20 times the content to these forums in roughly the same amount of membership time that you have.

How many pinned reference threads do you have here? How much time have you spent on staff here? See my VIP status? I don't pay for it. It is granted in perpetuity for effort spent helping work on this forum.

And yes, I have several state/national licensed professional status recognitions.

Still in the wrong forum board.
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:12 PM
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Although you made some good points, you should know that you forget to add “Thread Killer” to those credentials.
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:24 PM
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I wanted to say "Uh oh!" a few posts back but probably no one would have giggled.
Anyone grow popcorn?
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by hanzy4200 View Post
Growing our own food is arguably THE most important roll of prepping. Period. Stored food will run out, game will be hunted dry. Yet this topic usually comes in about 15th on the to-do list. Storing seeds is not enough. It is the same as buying a gun and never firing it. Gardening is trial and error. You WILL fail, and through that learn. Unless you fail now, you will fail when your life depends on it.

You still have time this season. Get out and stop finding excuses.
Zeke is right.

While he has a very "in your face" posting style, he usually is right.

Describing gardening as "the most important" prep is just another form of scenario prepping.

In some types of crises, having a garden could be a great prep - but in others it would be unimportant and in yet others it could be a liability.

If you run out of water, then having put more effort into setting up a sustainable system for water supply would have been a good idea (and more important than gardening).

If you are injured, then having medical supplies, training and emergency communications would be more important than having a garden.

If the ROL has failed, there are many desperate/dangerous people around and the cavalry are not coming to save you, having well rounded self defence and security skills/capability would be more important than having a garden.

If a big storm, hurricane or twister hits your area/location then a big pile of stored food (and the seeds you dismiss) down in a storm shelter would be a much better prep than having a garden now.

I could go on - but do you see how easy that was?

Trying to prioritize one prep over others is foolish. Prepping is an activity that requires multidimensional thinking and concurrent progress on many fronts (that achieve diverse capabilities and resources).

If you want to garden (because you like it or as part of some non-prepping life philosophy), then have at it - but don't assume (as your OP implies you do) that necessarily makes you better prepared than those who don't.

For the record (and so you don't just disregard what I have posted as another rant from a non-gardener), I farm on a commercial scale and produce many tons of food every year. I also have a fully mature/producing collection (of about 80) of permaculture trees/bushes that include oaks, chestnuts, pecans, walnuts, almonds, macadamias, oranges, mandarines, loquat, persimmons, mango, olives, peaches, figs, mulberries, blackberries - these range in age from about twenty years to more than a hundred years old.

But I don't take the attitude that stored food, or water, or medical or defence or any other prepping/survival capability is less important.

Everyone imagines what might happen but none of us knows what will happen.

The only way to be prepared for what does happen is with diverse preps.
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Old 06-02-2019, 08:36 PM
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Zeke is right.

While he has a very "in your face" posting style, he usually is right.

Describing gardening as "the most important" prep is just another form of scenario prepping.

In some types of crises, having a garden could be a great prep - but in others it would be unimportant and in yet others it could be a liability.

If you run out of water, then having put more effort into setting up a sustainable system for water supply would have been a good idea (and more important than gardening).

If you are injured, then having medical supplies, training and emergency communications would be more important than having a garden.

If the ROL has failed, there are many desperate/dangerous people around and the cavalry are not coming to save you, having well rounded self defence and security skills/capability would be more important than having a garden.

If a big storm, hurricane or twister hits your area/location then a big pile of stored food (and the seeds you dismiss) down in a storm shelter would be a much better prep than having a garden now.

I could go on - but do you see how easy that was?

Trying to prioritize one prep over others is foolish. Prepping is an activity that requires multidimensional thinking and concurrent progress on many fronts (that achieve diverse capabilities and resources).

If you want to garden (because you like it or as part of some non-prepping life philosophy), then have it - but don't assume (as your OP implies you do) that necessarily makes you better prepared than those who don't.

For the record (and so you don't just disregard what I have posted as another rant from a non-gardener), I farm on a commercial scale and produce many tons of food every year. I also have a fully mature/producing collection (of about 80) of permaculture trees/bushes that include oaks, chestnuts, pecans, walnuts, almonds, macadamias, oranges, mandarines, loquat, persimmons, mango, olives, peaches, mulberries, blackberries - these range in age from about twenty years to more than a hundred years old.

But I don't take the attitude that stored food, or water, or medical or defence or any other prepping/survival capability is less important.

Everyone imagines what might happen but none us knows what will happen.

The only way to be prepared for what does happen is with diverse preps.
I was not going to post in this thread but might as well. It is easier for me to respond to a great post and agree and put in whatever I can add of value. Since I have been studying and doing all kinds of survival mainly on a remote mtn survival retreat for way over 30 years now I should have a bit o knowledge.

I suppose that makes me sound like an arrogant know-it-all but hey have to get the info out someway and some of us are not overly tactful. We all should get thicker skin and ignore or at least getout of posts what we can without being offended. In the "good ol days" you think many were worried about offending others? Not from what I remember and I am sure it was much worse with people assaulting each other. My grandpa had a broken nose from when he was relaxing in a pool hall during WWII and someone said something against soldiers during the war. His oldest son was in the Navy on a gasoline tanker during WWII, the Big one.

Anyway, I digress like I do too often.

From what I have learned from study, reading a great deal even on a survival forum or two and especially from camping and Living in wilderness and wilderness-like areas, mainly a certain remote WY mtn retreat, I have my priorities for "preps" Actually trying to stay alive for more than a few days.

First, water is The Most important prep and what campers etc. should always have. Seems like common sense to me.

Then shelter be it a tent, tarp, or fancy camper is very important.

Food is not nearly as important a prep as many think it to be. Some can survive for many days without any food. Not my choice but I survived ok on No food for seven days straight and no water for 3 days almost a year ago real close to the top of the Continental Divide in Wyoming.
I lost a couple toes but otherwise came out ok and even more experienced.
Very unusual circumstances since I have hiked, backpacked and camped more than most since 1977. Every day all the time from mid June to Nov for 25 years even.

And this sentence is what I have written somewhat similarly in many posts and a few long pic threads, for the past ten years just in this huge forum.
Plus trying to make many realize the value of an underground or even Any kind of good protective shelter >
"If a big storm, hurricane or twister hits your area/location then a big pile of stored food (and the seeds you dismiss) down in a storm shelter would be a much better prep than having a garden now."

Btw, hanzy and anyone else is that many, maybe most of us had a bit of a hard time at first especially if we posted too much and tried to make others think that we know it all and have a lot of wisdom. Even if we do then it is wise to not begin too fast posting such. In a few weeks or months you can post more and more after proving yourself. Although no matter what I post it seems that some won't like it even if I were to give the cure for cancer not to mention posting about the wisdom of building some kind of protective shelter at Least a pretty good storm shelter which is not too expensive if people follow some plans such as these >>> www.oism.org/nwss/s73p933.htm

I could go on for hours but hopefully this has helped plus this link about priorities and what to obtain if possible. This link, which is short, concise and a chart, will auto download if any are brave enough to click it. Good interesting info though. I do not fulfill all of the levels since I have no well. I likely will obtain more water and food storage plus a greenhouse. My water comes from Two great year round springs that even flow during drought years >>>
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:17 AM
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Thanks Hanzy for the post and reminder. It was well intended, I'm sure....

Although this 'can be' a very good forum, the one big turn-off is that ability of some on here to turn everything/anything into an argument.....

Jeez guys....

Anyhow, I/we finally got 4 raised beds (4' x 8') going this spring and it has been so enjoyable...already feasting on zucchinis and string beans, waiting for those tomatoes to pop. I made sure I planted everything needed for salsa :-)
Doesn't matter if it is the 'most important' aspect of prepping or not, it is fun and rewarding, puts you in touch with the earth and all that.....
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:55 AM
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IamZeke IamZeke is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoo View Post
Although this 'can be' a very good forum, the one big turn-off is that ability of some on here to turn everything/anything into an argument.....
You mean like Hanzy basically declaring in the OP that gardening is always job one for every prepper?

I agree with you that too many here try to declare they have prepping figured out and that others should abide with their declaration.

False scenario bias prophets everywhere here stirring up arguments.
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