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Old 12-28-2018, 06:01 AM
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Default Record Number of Illegals Tried to Buy Guns



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The FBI reported that a record number of illegals tried to purchase guns. I thought illegals were all hard-working, peaceful people.

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The National Instant Criminal Background Check System said that it rejected 7,836,600 planned purchases from “illegal/unlawful alien” as of 2018. And that was at the end of November. Christmas purchases of guns are typically high and were not included.
FBI: Record number of illegal immigrants tried to buy guns this year

The libs tell us that there are only 11 million illegals in the USA. It appears that a very large percentage attempt to buy guns illegally.

Question 12c on the Firearms Transaction Record asks "Are you an alien
illegally or unlawfully in the United States?" I wonder how many answered that question honestly.

Firearms Transaction Record
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:15 AM
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that should be grounds for deporting lying on a fed document.butt with bleeding hearts involved only tax payers get hit with that crap.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:24 AM
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Saw that report this morning. The only upside to that is they tried to do it through legal channels. I wonder how many went the illegal rout after being turned down..
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:28 AM
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Saw that report this morning. The only upside to that is they tried to do it through legal channels. I wonder how many went the illegal rout after being turned down..
Exactly. I wonder how many bought through private parties, gun shows, or on the black market for stolen guns. That could be a multiple of the FBI rejections.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:31 AM
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Hard working peaceful people own firearms. Do not agree with your implication to the contrary. The right to bear arms is a natural right that should not be denied to anyone, anywhere on this earth.

Illegally invading the United States is the crime and problem that needs to be dealt with. Illegal aliens should be deported regardless of their actions.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:38 AM
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And don't forget straw buyers. 'Cousin Lupa, you are legal, here's $X can you pop in that store and pick me up a nice .....'
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:01 AM
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What a conundrum for the libtards.
They may not want to go on the record on this one.
On the one hand, they defend illegal aliens no matter what they do.
On the other, they are rabidly anti gun.
In their minds is it anti Illegal alien to deny them anything?
Must be keeping them awake in mom's basement.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by HomeDefense View Post
The FBI reported that a record number of illegals tried to purchase guns. I thought illegals were all hard-working, peaceful people.



FBI: Record number of illegal immigrants tried to buy guns this year

The libs tell us that there are only 11 million illegals in the USA. It appears that a very large percentage attempt to buy guns illegally.

Question 12c on the Firearms Transaction Record asks "Are you an alien
illegally or unlawfully in the United States?" I wonder how many answered that question honestly.

Firearms Transaction Record
What exactly is it about buying a gun that makes you question a person is hard working & peaceful? I agree that they should be deported but, only for being illegal not for trying to buy a gun.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by roseman View Post
What a conundrum for the libtards.
They may not want to go on the record on this one.
On the one hand, they defend illegal aliens no matter what they do.
On the other, they are rabidly anti gun.
In their minds is it anti Illegal alien to deny them anything?
Must be keeping them awake in mom's basement.
Or is it an article designed to get support for registration and restrictions of transferring firearms among conservative 2A supporters? Almost every article contains some sort of propaganda telling the masses what they should think. The endless barrage is designed to be 'death by a thousand cuts' but it just continues to polarize the nation by strengthening resolve on both sides of a given issue.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HomeDefense View Post
The FBI reported that a record number of illegals tried to purchase guns. I thought illegals were all hard-working, peaceful people.

Quote:
The National Instant Criminal Background Check System said that it rejected 7,836,600 planned purchases from “illegal/unlawful alien” as of 2018. And that was at the end of November. Christmas purchases of guns are typically high and were not included.
FBI: Record number of illegal immigrants tried to buy guns this year

The libs tell us that there are only 11 million illegals in the USA. It appears that a very large percentage attempt to buy guns illegally.

Question 12c on the Firearms Transaction Record asks "Are you an alien
illegally or unlawfully in the United States?" I wonder how many answered that question honestly.

Firearms Transaction Record
So buying a gun makes someone “not peaceful”. That’s an interesting position from which to have an argument. Sounds really familiar. I hear that quite often from the day time liberals on their shows. Self defense is a natural right. The fact that we have to make pre conditions in terms of legal status or whatever else only undermines it. I would venture to say there are some undertones in this article suggesting more restrictions are needed because suddenly an illegal exercises their God given rights for self defense and in turn we need to re evaluate. It’s a slippery slope. Don’t fall for it.

I suspect that many of these denials were of permanent residents who incorrectly answered the misleading questions about immigration status and are appealing. When you answer yes to any of the questions the system automatically denies it without looking into other information such as green card number. If one looks deeper and it turns out to be the case for most of these denials then shame on this publication for trying to use fear mongering tactics to try and sow seeds that can be used to expand restrictions.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Snuggle Monkey View Post
What exactly is it about buying a gun that makes you question a person is hard working & peaceful? I agree that they should be deported but, only for being illegal not for trying to buy a gun.
Rights are obviated when the person in question demonstrates that they are incapable of not violating the equal rights of others. The most obvious and intuitive example of this is that an intended murder victim can shoot their attacker without violating his right to his life, as the attacker caused that right to be obviated by attempting to violate the intended victim's right to their life.

And so our government has, with varying degrees of sense, attempted to restrict the right to keep and bear arms among those who have demonstrated the inability to respect the rights of others, on the premise that their cognizance or self restraint, if lacking in one aspect, is likely lacking in all. Thus we deny the right of criminal to keep and bear arms, and cite their own actions as the obviating factor.

So what have the illegals done? Well, they have trespassed into our nation for purposes unknown. Many have bilked our generosity, exploited our social safety net, racked up unpaid bills in our hospitals, and saddled us with ththe expenses of raising and educating their children. Some have tried to pervert the character of our nation by voting in our elections, typically voting to turn our great nation into the same kind of **** hole from which they fled. Quite a few are involved in the illegal drug trade that has turned into a drug war along our border and on the streets of our cities. And the rate at which they commit other felonies is much higher than our native population.

THAT is why they have obviated their right to keep and bear arms. They don't have the right to arm themselves against their next victim.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RedTail View Post
Hard working peaceful people own firearms. Do not agree with your implication to the contrary. The right to bear arms is a natural right that should not be denied to anyone, anywhere on this earth.
Nope X1,000

Armed illegal aliens that have nothing to lose facing deportation are an unnecessary threat to ICE and other LEO actively pursuing them.

Why arm an invasion force...
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by roseman View Post
What a conundrum for the libtards.
They may not want to go on the record on this one.
On the one hand, they defend illegal aliens no matter what they do.
On the other, they are rabidly anti gun.
In their minds is it anti Illegal alien to deny them anything?
Must be keeping them awake in mom's basement.
Incorrect, your run of the mill liberal sleeps like a baby knowing illegals are armed, dangerous and a threat. Armed illegals and Muslim refugees are the saviors of the Democratic Party. Those people will have no compunction with gunning down U.S. citizens when ordered to.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by HomeDefense View Post
Exactly. I wonder how many bought through private parties, gun shows, or on the black market for stolen guns. That could be a multiple of the FBI rejections.
Are you demanding "universal background checks" like the Democrats demand?

Rather than worry about gun purchases, illegals should be in fear 24/7 of filling out any paperwork - gun purchases, welfare, financial, etc - that will alert ICE to their presence in this country. Instead, illegals brazenly walk around demanding attention without fear of retribution.

That's the real problem.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Harmless Drudge View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuggle Monkey View Post
What exactly is it about buying a gun that makes you question a person is hard working & peaceful? I agree that they should be deported but, only for being illegal not for trying to buy a gun.
Rights are obviated when the person in question demonstrates that they are incapable of not violating the equal rights of others. The most obvious and intuitive example of this is that an intended murder victim can shoot their attacker without violating his right to his life, as the attacker caused that right to be obviated by attempting to violate the intended victim's right to their life.

And so our government has, with varying degrees of sense, attempted to restrict the right to keep and bear arms among those who have demonstrated the inability to respect the rights of others, on the premise that their cognizance or self restraint, if lacking in one aspect, is likely lacking in all. Thus we deny the right of criminal to keep and bear arms, and cite their own actions as the obviating factor.

So what have the illegals done? Well, they have trespassed into our nation for purposes unknown. Many have bilked our generosity, exploited our social safety net, racked up unpaid bills in our hospitals, and saddled us with ththe expenses of raising and educating their children. Some have tried to pervert the character of our nation by voting in our elections, typically voting to turn our great nation into the same kind of **** hole from which they fled. Quite a few are involved in the illegal drug trade that has turned into a drug war along our border and on the streets of our cities. And the rate at which they commit other felonies is much higher than our native population.

THAT is why they have obviated their right to keep and bear arms. They don't have the right to arm themselves against their next victim.
Your bias is showing. So suddenly illegals don’t have natural rights? Legally they cannot purchase weapons, but where is the law when it comes to possession say in their home for which they pay rent or in their vehicle? Many states don’t require permits for long guns. So will you object to an illegal possessing a firearm in their home for protection? It could be a loaner from a relative. An illegal commits a crime when illegally crossing the border which is a misdemeanor. If an illegal overstays his visa then it’s a civil offense.

So to summarize you are advocating the prohibition of a natural right because of a civil offense, unpaid hospital bills, supposed crime without due process, and a host of other crimes that are associated to a group of people without looking at the individual separately? Wow the hypocrisy is staggering from the resident natural right purist. Those are all wishful thinking checklist from gun grabbers’ utopian ambitions. What’s next? A credit check?
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by RedTail View Post
Hard working peaceful people own firearms. Do not agree with your implication to the contrary. The right to bear arms is a natural right that should not be denied to anyone, anywhere on this earth.

Illegally invading the United States is the crime and problem that needs to be dealt with. Illegal aliens should be deported regardless of their actions.
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Originally Posted by sabotage39k View Post
So buying a gun makes someone “not peaceful”. That’s an interesting position from which to have an argument. Sounds really familiar. I hear that quite often from the day time liberals on their shows. Self defense is a natural right. The fact that we have to make pre conditions in terms of legal status or whatever else only undermine it. I would venture to say there are some undertones in this article suggesting more restrictions are needed because suddenly an illegal exercises their God given rights for self defense and in turn we need to re evaluate. It’s a slippery slope. Don’t fall for it.
I did not even imply what you are reading into my statement. Your implication is fake news.

My implication, if any, is that illegals are not buying firearms for peaceful purposes.

First, illegals are here with full knowledge that they are breaking our laws. That makes them criminals with likely intent to further disregard our laws.

Second, take a look at the crime rates in sanctuary cities. They are far above non-sanctuary cities. The high crime rates are directly tied to the presence of illegals.

Third, it is illegal for illegals to purchase firearms in the USA. That adds more criminal intent.

I fully agree with the right to self-defense; however, I draw the line at a criminal's right to use firearms to harm others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comdot View Post
Are you demanding "universal background checks" like the Democrats demand?[/B]
How did you ever concoct that from my statements? But the fact is that the FBI check is what stopped more than 7 million illegals from illegally purchasing firearms. Are you advocating that illegals should be able to purchase firearms?

Shouldn't everyone's primary concern be that record numbers of illegals are attempting to purchase firearms? You guys need to sober up and then read the article.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:29 PM
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I did not even imply what you are reading into my statement. Your implication is fake news.

My implication, if any, is that illegals are not buying firearms for peaceful purposes. Well, thanks for clearing that up. I thought you were turning to the left on that one. However, kind of presumptuous to group together people like that and apply a suspicion to all. I mean I could say the same for militias. They are not buying guns for peaceful purposes. They even state it as such when "peaceful" flies out the window in the face of a tyrannical government. So do we now restrict natural rights because of perceived intent of whether peaceful or not. Oh look out now. Head turning left again.

First, illegals are here with full knowledge that they are breaking our laws. That makes them criminals with intent to disregard our laws. Illegals that break the law crossed the border and under the law should have due process to convict them of it. Plus since when have misdemeanors prevented people from having firearms? Besides class A domestic violence misdemeanors I don't know of any. Care to point them out to me? People overstaying their visas committed a civil offense. So, that does not apply here even if the misdemeanor is considered? That puts them in jeopardy of civil action.

Second, take a look at the crime rates in sanctuary cities. They are far above non-sanctuary cities. The high crime rates are directly tied to the presence of illegals. So are terrorist attacks committed by white nationalists. Should we start disarming white nationalists because they are guilty by association?

Third, it is illegal for illegals to purchase firearms in the USA. That adds more criminal intent. Is it criminal intent if they were truthful on the NICS background check form?

I fully agree with the right to self-defense; however, I draw the line at a criminal right to use firearms to harm others.

I agree. So we need to ban white nationalist from owning guns. They have proven to be a terrorist group and dangerous.
I am glad you are seeing things from the left's point of view now/ sarcasm.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:30 PM
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Your bias is showing. So suddenly illegals don’t have natural rights? Legally they cannot purchase weapons, but where is the law when it comes to possession say in their home for which they pay rent or in their vehicle? Many states don’t require permits for long guns. So will you object to an illegal possessing a firearm in their home for protection? It could be a loaner from a relative. An illegal commits a crime when illegally crossing the border which is a misdemeanor. If an illegal overstays his visa then it’s a civil offense.

So to summarize you are advocating the prohibition of a natural right because of a civil offense, unpaid hospital bills, supposed crime without due process, and a host of other crimes that are associated to a group of people without looking at the individual separately? Wow the hypocrisy is staggering from the resident natural right purist. Those are all wishful thinking checklist from gun grabbers’ utopian ambitions. What’s next? A credit check?
There are two issues at hand here:

1) The difference between the civil right and the natural right

2) The natural boundary of natural rights

The Second Amendment, and its state equivalents, are civil rights meant to safeguard the natural rights of the people against government intrusion. The natural right to defend oneself still exists without recognition, but a brief glimpse at any authoritarian regime that does not reinforce it with a civil right demonstrates what happens to the natural right when neither government nor the individual are willing or able to safeguard it.

In other words, with or without government acknowledgement, the individual has the right to defend his life, liberty, and property in any manner that does not necessarily violate the equal rights of others. This is true whether in the United States or in Honduras or in North Korea, with varying degrees of government understanding.

Now enters the second consideration, the equal rights of others, and to illustrate the concept, I will begin with an example. You are walking down the street when a man with a knife starts stabbing people and killing them. He shows no sign of any intention to stop. He is imminently killing people. He turns his gaze to you and raises his knife to kill you when you shoot him. Have you violated his right to life? If you were a law enforcement agent acting on behalf of government, has government violated his right to life?

The obvious answer is no, because he obviated his right to his life by living it in such a way that by continuing to live, other people necessarily would die. The natural boundary on one's natural rights is that they do not necessarily violate the equal rights of others.

So let's define his right to life, in this example: he has the sovereign prerogative to defend his life in any way that does not violate the rights of others. He has the right to breathe the air, grow/purchase/consume food, buy and receive health care, exercise his body, learn about nutrition, and even ward off threats like attackers. But he has no negative right not to die. Nobody has to keep him alive, provide him with food, or jump in front of a speeding bullet for him, except for his parents during his childhood, according to the natural estate.

Now consider the natural right to keep and bear arms, separate from and much broader than the civil right. It is incidental to the rights of life, liberty, and property, being all three of the basic and prominent natural rights. One can not effectively exercise the sovereign prerogative to defend their life, liberty, and property without the latitude to press into service the artifice of man most effective to the task, be it a weapon by design carried with the intent to defend, or a weapon of convenience close at hand when the incident arises.

But what of the case of those who misuse their latitudes in order to violate others? What of those who trespass upon our shores and demonstrate no desire to abide by our law? Are they not perpetually obviating their right to go armed by demonstrating perpetual contempt for the plain letters and spirit of diverse statutes? Were they in obedience to just law, they would not be here in order to keep and bear arms, and that is the crux of the matter:

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY OR ANY PLACE WHERE THEY ARE NOT TRESPASSING BOUNDARIES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE. Denying them the civil right to keep and bear arms is not an assault on their natural right. THEY denied THEMSELVES the right by violating the rights of others. Their right to keep and bear arms was obviated the moment they crossed our borders with designs on violating the law. It is no different than my policy of restricting armed trespassers on my own property.

So what recourse do they have? Well, for starters, they can stop violating the law. If they immigrate legally, no bar is emplaced upon their civil right, and no infringement exists upon their natural right, except those infringements that our government wrongly applies to all, citizens included. Alternately, they can remain in, or return to, their own country, exercising their natural right, with whatever adverse consequence their tyrannical government might impose, and enjoying whatever civil rights their government might deign to permit.

Natural rights are absolute... within their own scope. Outside of their scope, THEY CEASE TO BE RIGHTS, thus cracking down on them is NOT an infringement. The moment I use a latitude to violate others' rights, that latitude has trespassed beyond the definition of a right, even if the underlying action is facially similar.

To wit: I can speak many things. I might praise a child for their performance in the spelling bee, and in the very same breath call for my business rival to hacked to pieces and his desecrated corpse interred in a shallow grave. Both are the same latitude of speech, but the latter falls outside the natural right because it kills someone. Though facially similar, they are more different than they are alike. Every natural right has its own self-boundary.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:34 PM
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I am glad you are seeing things from the left's point of view now/ sarcasm.
My comment about illegals being hard-working and peaceful was entirely sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by sabotage39k View Post
First, illegals are here with full knowledge that they are breaking our laws. That makes them criminals with intent to disregard our laws. Illegals that break the law crossed the border and under the law should have due process to convict them of it. Plus since when have misdemeanors prevent people from having firearms? Besides class A domestic violence misdemeanors I don't know of any. Care to point them out to me? People overstaying their visas committed a civil offense. So, that does not apply there even if the misdemeanor was considered. That makes them in jeopardy of civil action.
Deportation, while not necessarily a criminal prosecution, is due process. It requires an order from a judge. And it does go on an illegal's record.

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Second, take a look at the crime rates in sanctuary cities. They are far above non-sanctuary cities. The high crime rates are directly tied to the presence of illegals. So are terrorist attacks committed by white nationalists. Should we start disarming white nationalists because they are guilty by association?
If we did that, we would have to disarm the Black Panthers, Black Lives Matter, hundreds of inner-city gang members, and other racist groups as well. If you commit a felony, by law you lose your firearm rights. Guilt by association is not illegal in the USA unless you are a participant in an illegal act.

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Originally Posted by sabotage39k View Post
Third, it is illegal for illegals to purchase firearms in the USA. That adds more criminal intent. Is it criminal intent of they weer truthful on the NICS background check form?
We don't know that part based on the FBI statistics. However, if they are filling out the form, the gun shop where they filled it out should inform them that they cannot legally purchase firearms when they check that box to indicate they are here illegally. If that's the case, the illegal is guilty of stupidity and the gun shop guilty of negligence, neither of which would be illegal.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:37 PM
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What exactly is it about buying a gun that makes you question a person is hard working & peaceful? I agree that they should be deported but, only for being illegal not for trying to buy a gun.
But they’re trying to illegally buy that gun. So strike 2 as far as the laws broken...
I wonder if that illegal that killed the cop in Northern Kalifornia bought his (legally)?

Trump damn sure needs to address this and hold the Democrats feet to the fire on this...
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