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Old 08-19-2018, 02:32 PM
Lunes Lunes is offline
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Hello, which non-lethal weapon is most effective to stop an attacker or multiple attackers?

I believe a pepperspray/capsaicin based weapon is the best choice. When ordinary pepper spray isnt enough, i read that riot guns is used by police and army for crowd control, they shoot out a big amount of pepperpowder propelled by black powder.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:01 PM
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Much like a lethal weapon a non lethal weapon is only as good as the person wielding it. If you are choosing a non lethal weapon for yourself you may want to test a few out and see what you are comfortable with and what you use well. Whatever you decide on you'll need to practice with it a lot to achieve the desired effect you want.

Most of all keep in mind, like with any weapon, it can and most likely will be taken from you and used against you.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:22 PM
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A large intimidating dog....

wont be taken away from you and used against you.....and has proven to be effective with single and or crowds....
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TRyan View Post
Much like a lethal weapon a non lethal weapon is only as good as the person wielding it. If you are choosing a non lethal weapon for yourself you may want to test a few out and see what you are comfortable with and what you use well. Whatever you decide on you'll need to practice with it a lot to achieve the desired effect you want.

Most of all keep in mind, like with any weapon, it can and most likely will be taken from you and used against you.
Thatís why a distance weapon is a good option, close combat is dangerous, keeping distance is important.

I donít know 100% how that riot gun i mention above work, and i donít find that much info about them.

Imagine a blank gun that fires OC rounds, the problem with these is that they can backfire at you and got a short effective range. Imagine a round that is 5 times more powerful and got 5 times more powder content.

It will make the risk of backfire less likely since it will travel longer, and it will have a more effective range. At closer distance it will be even more traumatic and effective.

I seen shotgun rounds with pepper, thats a bit like that, but it seens like they donít got that much pepperpowder in them, they just create a small cloud, and some of them doesnt got much gunpowder either.

Would it be possible to load more gunpowder and more pepperpowder, in order to create a bigger, more powerful peppercloud that will travel farther?
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:32 PM
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A large intimidating dog....

wont be taken away from you and used against you.....and has proven to be effective with single and or crowds....
Dog bites can be lethal, if i just want to frighten, i can frighten with a gun too.

I need a non-lethal weapon that is effective.

A powerfull pepper blaster could be even easier to operate, more accurate and therefore more effective against multiple attackers than a semiauto gun.
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:35 PM
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depends on where you live...but most places...this is a crime in itself...to brandish.....

Quote:
i can frighten with a gun too.
Quote:
Dog bites can be lethal,
this is the exception...not the rule...
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunes View Post
Hello, which non-lethal weapon is most effective to stop an attacker or multiple attackers?

I believe a pepperspray/capsaicin based weapon is the best choice. When ordinary pepper spray isnt enough, i read that riot guns is used by police and army for crowd control, they shoot out a big amount of pepperpowder propelled by black powder.
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_vX9FtjLaQ


In this video, officers show why I wouldn't bet my life on pepper spray.
It just makes the thug angrier and stronger. Sure it MAY work, but that's not good enough.

Non-lethal? That leaves out guns, and knives. You want something you have in easy reach all the time. You want to practice with it. You want to study how to use it. You want a custom made cane. Stronger and heavier than a drug store cane this is a weapon that won't ever be taken from you and will always be in your hand.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRyan View Post
Much like a lethal weapon a non lethal weapon is only as good as the person wielding it. If you are choosing a non lethal weapon for yourself you may want to test a few out and see what you are comfortable with and what you use well. Whatever you decide on you'll need to practice with it a lot to achieve the desired effect you want.

Most of all keep in mind, like with any weapon, it can and most likely will be taken from you and used against you.
Great points, and its just shows what the greatest weapon of all is; the human mind. Don't ever get in the situation where your weapon will be taken from you. Better to deal with one idiot in a lifetime than a whole gang because you were some where you shouldn't be.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:18 PM
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Although I'm from a "stand your ground" state and I have a carry permit, I still carry pepper spray in one of the ammo pouches in my shoulder rig, but it's mainly for dogs and animals I run across while in the woods like wild hogs, coons etc. since I believe in eating what I shoot and there are some animals I'm not interested in eating.
For humans, I believe that any situation that would compel me to use pepper spray would be better handled with a pistol, and I'd have no urge to pull the pepper spray for protection against a person. Seen too many cop videos that show guys getting sprayed and then fighting the cop for five minutes before either getting arrested or getting away. Also seen several videos that show the cop choking and rubbing his eyes after he tried to spray an attacker who was upwind from him. Just too many variables that come with using pepper spray. If I had to use a backup I'd probably prefer a good heavy slapjack that I could quickly pull out of my back pocket and lay across the attackers skull a few times.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:23 AM
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Anything that is used as a weapon can be lethal, even if not intended to be. Pepper spray and tasers would both kill me if used the way each usually is. I have both breathing problems and heart problems, that in conjunction with either of the weapons would, at the very least, put me in the hospital for significant time, and without immediate life support action would probably kill me on-site.

Batons, and pretty much any and all of the impact weapons can be lethal if used inappropriately or carelessly, or on a person with very poor reactions and physical liabilities. Slingshots, even 'toy' ones can catch a person in places where the pellet, ball, or marble can kill the person.

Without going through the entire list of possibilities, I think it is probably clear that it is how something is used that determines lethality. A gun is actually seldom lethal. Same with knives. Most people survive being shot or stabbed. Not all of course. Many do die. But many do not. But since the chances are far higher, guns and knives are considered lethal weapons at all times.

This is part of the reason I almost always use the terms less-lethal or ess-than-lethal, rather than non-lethal. Many things will not kill an average, healthy person if the item is used as intended. So they tend to be less-lethal, or less-than-lethal.

As far as what I prefer, but have only used on aggressive animals so far, is a weighted entangling net. Unless a person falls and strikes their head on something that can cause a killing wound, or falls into water and cannot escape the net they will drown. And, though small, if enough of the weights were to impact a person's head or other vulnerable are, quite a bit of damage can be done. So even the net cannot be considered 100% non-lethal.

But if trained with and used well, the aggressor will be stopped long enough for a person to either get away, or to control the person in some other way. Now, just getting a net over someone is no guarantee to stop them, if it is still loose enough for them to use their arms, if they have a firearm. They might still shoot you. Which is the reason a weighted entangling net usually has a captive retrieval rope attached. Not only can you get the net back if you miss (mostly while hunting and such), but it also can be yanked to throw the person in the net off balance so they cannot do anything coordinated, like shoot you.

I would probably not go for one of the net capture guns, as they can malfunction, especially with their cost. I can have several weighted nets on me for far less money, and use them much more quickly.

So, I will go with a set of the less-lethal entangling nets.

Just my opinion.
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:08 AM
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Non lethal is a bad joke. And guns arenít lethal...people with guns are.

If the bad guy has enough intent, anything short of lethal that doesnít ACTUALLY incapacitate him, 100% for sure, is simply not good enough, and allowing oneself to be violated isnít in my plans. And NONE of the non-lethal stuff does it 100%.

Sure, you can say the same about guns, they certainly arenít 100% effective...but then, in many cases, probably the majority of cases, guns arenít lethal either, but are still often very effective . So one COULD argue, guns are effectively non-lethal, statistically speaking.

My non lethal SD is pulling the gun, and MAYBE telling the guy heís going to get shot if he keeps doing what heís doing. His actions beyond that point in time determine if lethality is going to come into play.

So one could say, the best non-lethal defense is what the bad guy should have used, by deciding to NOT try to hurt or rob me.
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:45 PM
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Woman pulls asp, taken away.

http://mynorthwest.com/1022394/intox...mily-seattle/?
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:06 PM
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Pepper spray is a crapshoot... it has been found to not work on some individuals, notably those with certain mental illnesses. It is not understood how or why they can mentally override pain and shock, but these are also the ones that you hear about that keep on coming like a tank after being shot in the kill zone with a bullet.

Pepper spray is ineffective on too many people to be considered reliable.
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Old 08-28-2018, 01:17 PM
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Pepper spray works otherwise the police wouldn't carry it. Does it work 100% of the time?
No.
But it does work the majority of the time.

I carry several different options along with a gun.
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Old 08-28-2018, 01:41 PM
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http://www.cmcgov.com/CTS-CS-Sting-B...tegory=3417905

Blast, CS, and impact.
Can just be dropped or as far as you can throw them.

" Boy, sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think "
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:42 PM
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Your "Command Voice" , Practice convincingly, "I have a firearm and I will shoot you !"
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Old 08-30-2018, 01:05 AM
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A gun doesn’t have to be lethal. Shoot an attacker in the leg, and he won’t be able to chase you as you run away. Pepper spray is a fine option as long as it works. Fact is, it does not always work on everyone the same way. Some people have very bad reactions to it, as Kwrry pointed out, while others can walk right through it. As others have said, the main thing is to be proficient with whatever you intend to carry. That includes pepper spray.
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Old 08-30-2018, 03:58 AM
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A gun doesn’t have to be lethal. Shoot an attacker in the leg, and he won’t be able to chase you as you run away. Pepper spray is a fine option as long as it works. Fact is, it does not always work on everyone the same way. Some people have very bad reactions to it, as Kwrry pointed out, while others can walk right through it. As others have said, the main thing is to be proficient with whatever you intend to carry. That includes pepper spray.
Shooting someone in the leg isn't much less likely to kill them than shooting them center mass. It'll be less incapacitating in ways other than their ability to run at you which means it makes sense for someone with no ranged weapon, but not against someone that has or potentially has a ranged weapon. I'd go so far as to say it's more likely to be effective at stopping the threat because a shot through the lung isn't going to keep them from catching you and hurting you before they suffocate or bleed out. But the legs are full of very large arteries (and veins) and they'll likely bleed out. If you're shooting at COM you're aiming for a gut shot, which has a significantly lower mortality, but there's a chance you're going to nail the spine and drop them in place.

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Old 08-30-2018, 05:04 AM
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Yeah sorry, been in combat and seen far more people survive GSW to the leg than anything center mass. And if they have a ranged weapon as well, then any non lethal weapon, such as pepper spray or a cane is not going to help anyway.

With that said, I was mostly just being sarcastic, because if I’m going to shoot someone, I will not be aiming for the leg because I would assume if it is serious enough that I feel the need to defend my own life, I will not hesitate to take theirs first.
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Old 08-30-2018, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ole Grunt View Post
Yeah sorry, been in combat and seen far more people survive GSW to the leg than anything center mass. And if they have a ranged weapon as well, then any non lethal weapon, such as pepper spray or a cane is not going to help anyway.

With that said, I was mostly just being sarcastic, because if I’m going to shoot someone, I will not be aiming for the leg because I would assume if it is serious enough that I feel the need to defend my own life, I will not hesitate to take theirs first.
Immediate access to first aid medical care and tools (quick clot, TQs, etc) specialized in preventing bleed outs from GSWs means bleed out deaths will be greatly reduced compared to solid vital organ hits. You're still inflicting a mortal wound though and if your intention is to wound without killing, you're not doing it right. On the street they're just going to bleed out waiting on the ambulance if you didn't bring a TQ and put it on them yourself.
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