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Old 04-27-2017, 04:33 PM
KravMagoo KravMagoo is offline
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Default Training vs. Multiple Attackers?



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What are your strategies?

I train with certain strategies from Krav Maga and they seem to work the best. It becomes mostly about good footwork and Boxing, especially punching while moving.

It gets very tough 3-on-1. 1 minute rounds feels like 10 minutes.

This is bad 2-on-1 strategies, right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tn_Li62Xy4

I know someone's going to say run away....don't be there....shoot 'em. Yes we know, but this is training. Just like some train certain fantasy SD scenarios or prep ungodly amounts of ammo & Mountain House foods, for other survival fantasy scenarios.....geting jumped, actually does happen. While Mad Max III: Thunderdome, hasn't yet, not even once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjJuw354vkU
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:36 PM
KravMagoo KravMagoo is offline
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3 women whoops on 1 man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc7yYfMG-PU

Title of video is misleading.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:46 PM
gotjunk gotjunk is offline
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Well it is about defending yourself. Getting the opportunity the draw and fire is where it's at, not expending yourself in a brawl and getting hurt. Three on one: boom boom boom.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:50 PM
KravMagoo KravMagoo is offline
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Originally Posted by gotjunk View Post
Well it is about defending yourself. Getting the opportunity the draw and fire is where it's at, not expending yourself in a brawl and getting hurt. Three on one: boom boom boom.
Note the name of this forum "Non-Lethal Weapons & Self Defense".

And many people aren't allowed to own guns where they live. Did you know that not all cities in the USA have a CCW program?
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:56 PM
gotjunk gotjunk is offline
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Just keepen it real sorry your out gunned.
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:02 PM
Fertig Fertig is offline
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Hickory ax handle, 2-2 1/2 feet long. Drill a hole in one end and tie a leather strap to go around your wrist. Pull this out of your jacket or just carry it. Never raise this above head level, strike using the tip as close to your body as possible. Hit the head anywhere and the attacker will go away. Hit one, the second one hesitates, hit him, the others will run.

Believe me, I know all about unarmed combat. Don't depend on this or waste your time with it. Anyone serious will have a knife, minimum, and you will never see the knife until it is in your guts---one has been in mine so I know this the hard way. If you are attacked, use simple, overwhelming force in your defense---a gun if possible.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:15 PM
KravMagoo KravMagoo is offline
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Originally Posted by gotjunk View Post
Just keepen it real sorry your out gunned.
That's not keeping it real. I have plenty of guns, but can't carry one in certain cities and states.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:26 PM
KravMagoo KravMagoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fertig View Post
Hickory ax handle, 2-2 1/2 feet long. Drill a hole in one end and tie a leather strap to go around your wrist. Pull this out of your jacket or just carry it. Never raise this above head level, strike using the tip as close to your body as possible. Hit the head anywhere and the attacker will go away. Hit one, the second one hesitates, hit him, the others will run.

Believe me, I know all about unarmed combat. Don't depend on this or waste your time with it. Anyone serious will have a knife, minimum, and you will never see the knife until it is in your guts---one has been in mine so I know this the hard way. If you are attacked, use simple, overwhelming force in your defense---a gun if possible.

Aside from my 9mm, I also carry a Cold Steel Voyager w/a 5.5" blade knife, and I train with it 10-20 rounds per week. But don't say that unarmed combat is a waste of time. Having the ability to KO people works for most occasions. Besides that, I'm in damn good shape as an added bonus....no diabetes, no high blood pressure, etc. nothing.

You can't just brandish your knife or blunt weapon over just anything. Your axe handle may be more illegal than my folding knife in some cities....yea it's weird.

And you certainly can't just clobber people if they just come up to you and ask for the time, even if it was a setup for a robbery. For this 60 hoodrats attacking and robbing people in a flash mob, then that, I can see your axe handle being used.

Only problem I see is deliberately putting a hole into it for a leather strap....it's now a purposefully made weapon. I'd rather carry a cane instead to lessen the chances of trouble with The Law.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotjunk View Post
Well it is about defending yourself. Getting the opportunity the draw and fire is where it's at
Yeah well there are million and one circumstances and you can't tell me you can handle every single one without getting into a hand 2 hand fight first.

People who don't have any street experience are the first to think that their gun will handle every situation.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotjunk View Post
Just keepen it real sorry your out gunned.
What is that supposed to mean?
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Fertig View Post
Believe me, I know all about unarmed combat. Don't depend on this or waste your time with it.
Unarmed combat has probably saved my life, twice, that I know of. One of them was a gun disarm and the other a knife. Neither situation was text book.

Confronting a threat at a safe distance with a gun has kept me and others safe dozens of times.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KravMagoo View Post
What are your strategies?
My line of thinking is "shield, movement, and space". My goal is to keep a shield between myself and my attackers.

Whether that shield be a bar, a table, an opponent, a patrol car or some other substantial upright item.


I have to stay up on my feet and my opponents have to go down. I can't be mobile if I am on the ground. I won't have much of a shield, and my space will be compromised.

I need space to act/react which gives time and movement.


In practice, I have found myself being primarily defensive because I don't want to over commit and give an opponent an opportunity to hurt me.

My first chance of a good escape I will take it. Firearm would be last resort in close quarters because once it's out, it's not going back into the holster.


I lean toward grappling with sweeps, standing chokes, joint locks, clinch, and throws.

In the trap/grappling range, opponent strikes can be stuffed.

Using the muay Thai neck clinch, in practice, I can manipulate my active opponent to be between me and another opponent. Breaking the posture is the key component to the clinch. If the posture isn't broken, you don't own them.

If you can get a good knockdown strike or throw on the current opponent, you should be able to then actively engage the next.


In confined quarters such as a bar, club, house, hallway, the situation is going to be grim. Cover up and run.

Against untrained attackers, this can be an effective means of handling a multi-opponent situation. Against trained attackers...



So in summary
------------------------

A shield creates space which allows movement and action.


muay Thai clinch at close range to avoid "lucky" strikes. Use your clinched opponent as the shield as much as possible. Knock them down (throws, knees, elbows, punches), engage the next target.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:18 AM
KravMagoo KravMagoo is offline
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Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
My line of thinking is "shield, movement, and space". My goal is to keep a shield between myself and my attackers.

Whether that shield be a bar, a table, an opponent, a patrol car or some other substantial upright item.
Lot's of good stuff in your post, thanks.

I like to line up my opponents in a 1 on 2 sparring, like you pointed out. Using the weaker one as this shield to block the stronger. Constant footwork. Just real tough vs. 3.

As a cop, when are you allowed to throw punches, according to your own dept. guidelines? How about if they spit on you, can you punch them in the face from being spat on? That's a damn bio attack.

Funny how cops punching is usually perceived as excessive force. But getting taken down can rip apart all sorts of joints, causing worse injuries....and then the impact of hitting the cement with a cop following you while on top = more damage. Maybe they should look into slapping. Sounds funny, but a good slap in the face can help dum-dums think clearer sometimes. If not, maybe a #2 slap, then #3, #4....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkggwchrtsQ
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:45 AM
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Key is keeping a situation going where they can't all get at you at once. It's worked for me on several occasions.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KravMagoo View Post
Lot's of good stuff in your post, thanks.
The shield idea is not my own. It comes from some Gracies using the knees as a shield when on your back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KravMagoo View Post
As a cop, when are you allowed to throw punches, according to your own dept. guidelines? How about if they spit on you, can you punch them in the face from being spat on? That's a damn bio attack.
What we are allowed to do is aggressively push away there face with an open palm. You can do that really fast

Quote:
Funny how cops punching is usually perceived as excessive force. But getting taken down can rip apart all sorts of joints, causing worse injuries....and then the impact of hitting the cement with a cop following you while on top = more damage. Maybe they should look into slapping. Sounds funny, but a good slap in the face can help dum-dums think clearer sometimes. If not, maybe a #2 slap, then #3, #4....
I agree that take downs, especially on asphalt and concrete can be just as bad, if not worse than strikes.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:58 PM
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Big uns line up ,little uns can get get in groups either way I am attacking it is the best defense. jmho and S/FI
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:11 PM
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Muay Thai clinch, control the head of one attacker. Keep turning him, keeping his body between you and the others while sending in those knees. When he drops or drags, clinch the next one. Rinse and repeat.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KravMagoo View Post
What are your strategies?

I train with certain strategies from Krav Maga and they seem to work the best. It becomes mostly about good footwork and Boxing, especially punching while moving.

It gets very tough 3-on-1. 1 minute rounds feels like 10 minutes.

This is bad 2-on-1 strategies, right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tn_Li62Xy4

I know someone's going to say run away....don't be there....shoot 'em. Yes we know, but this is training. Just like some train certain fantasy SD scenarios or prep ungodly amounts of ammo & Mountain House foods, for other survival fantasy scenarios.....geting jumped, actually does happen. While Mad Max III: Thunderdome, hasn't yet, not even once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjJuw354vkU
The solution is pretty much like you see on the video. Get dog piled in to the ground and bashed.
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:33 AM
KravMagoo KravMagoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
The solution is pretty much like you see on the video. Get dog piled in to the ground and bashed.
Nah, training still works. 1 vs. multiples = mostly Boxing...which goes back to my other thread about how it's rarely about exotic techniques and styles....just good Western Boxing to punch people in the face = solving most problems.

And oldie but a goodie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VghHktr89lE
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Old 04-30-2017, 02:51 AM
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There're several several methods of thought on this one but by far the one I practice most is fast disabling strikes (even if temporary). Dealing with multiple attackers requires footwork that won't trap you between two or more and the constant 'maneuvering' taught during most combative classes quickly becomes too much of a game. Communicate with your partners and gain agreement on what should or should not be considered 'disabling.' Strikes that'll bend a kneecap backwards or significantly tweak the kneecap should be practiced for targeting, using another surface for practicing proper force application; fast throws like 'arm bar tosses' or the like can be done relatively safely (again with communication). Big important thing is intent during drilling, just reaching out to touch the defender isn't going to cut it.

The vast majority of grappling in a multiple opponent scenario that doesn't result in some kind of 'he's on the ground and I'm not' is usually going to end badly unless the defender has some kind of weapon. The nearly universal response to this scenario which results in a grapple is an attempt to use the grappled combatant as a shield-- practice attempts of the grappled attacker trying to escape while the other attacker(s) attempt to strike the defender. If the defender is capable of adequately navigating the situation without getting pommeled, good job! Otherwise, consider a different approach.
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