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Old 03-11-2017, 12:15 PM
Finmac Finmac is offline
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Default The Truth About the Gold and Silver Scam



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In case you think buying Gold or Silver is a way to prepare for future emergencies like SHTF, a great depression or simply hedging against severe inflation you may be surprised to learn how the price of precious metals are determined. If you follow the news, research the internet or receive mail marketing or simply by word of mouth then possibly you are uninformed and you have been brainwashed into thinking the ownership of metals is a cure-all for Armageddon.
Let's say you bought a million Dollars of Gold in 1990. Gold was selling for $386 an oz. and you would be the owner of 2589.33 ozs. In 2001 that same amount would only be worth $715,950. If you continued to hold on to that Gold until now, after 27 years, your Gold would be worth $3,107,196. In 2017 you decide to sell your Gold. You first pay the government 38% to 43% capital gains tax, then 8.82% state income tax, 6% testing fee, $23,302 broker fees (T. Rowe Price), storage fees for 162 pounds of Gold. In order to guarantee bullion integrity it must be stored in a certified location to guarantee no hanky panky with the purity, etc.
Added up those costs are $1,180,734.48 + $185,854.68 + 126,431.76+ $23,302...without the storage fees, so that acrus to $1,516,322.92 so, $3,107,196 - $1,516,322.92 = $1,590,873 or $590,873 in profit divided by 27 years or $21,884.19 a year or $1823.68 a month.
A terrible investment since adjusting for 85% inflation from 1990 to 2017 nets you a minus $259,127 in buying power.
You might be interested in understanding that the value of precious metals has never been set by supply and demand since 1919. In 1919 N.M. Rothschild, Mocatta & Goldsmith, Pixley & Abell and Samuel Montagu fixed the price of Gold by telephone. In 1933 Roosevelt confiscated all Gold and the going price rose to $35 an oz. The London Gold market closed between 1939 and 1954. In 1980 Gold price fixing was set at $865.35 per Troy oz the all time record high ever when adjusted for inflation. In 2004 the Rothschilds ended their participation in Gold fixing and Barclays took their place. In 2014 Deutsche Bank withdrew from Gold price fixing. In May 2014 the Financial Conduct Authority fined Barclays 26 million Pounds for unfair manipulation of Gold prices.

Gold prices simply depend on what the average Joe Sixpack will pay for it on the Spot market. Since 2003 Gold prices have soared in conjunction with the threat of the Obama socialist regime and the Globalist threat.

If the economy declines rapidly or fails altogether then Gold will have little value because there will be few who could to buy it and almost no demand.

Today's Gold market reminds me of the Emu( a big bird similar to an Ostrich) market of the late 80s/early 90s where Emus were used as a product of a huge pyramid scheme. They had absolutely no value but were commonly traded for up to $5000 a bird and eggs went for $2500 each. Emu farms went up everywhere and special trailers and facilities were built to transport them. The big surprise came when people started to cash in on their investment to the mysterious buyers of precious Emu products that didn't exist. Suddenly Emus were being given away or being set loose across the country because people could no longer afford to feed the huge bird.

The same is true for the Gold market. Nobody takes time to think about who will buy Gold in the case of a major collapse...nobody...what would they buy the Gold with...paper Dollars...food...ammo...guns? When you are trying to survive Gold will be good for making jewelry...and that's about it.
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Old 03-11-2017, 12:28 PM
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Yes, it is possible for gold and silver to be worth zero, in a crisis/meltdown. And a lot of people do not want to hear about that, but it is true.
Any real meltdown in America, will bring out things that are undreamed of. What do you do when gold is worthless? I don't know, but it is possible.
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Old 03-11-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Finmac View Post
Nobody takes time to think about who will buy Gold in the case of a major collapse...nobody...what would they buy the Gold with...paper Dollars...food...ammo...guns? When you are trying to survive Gold will be good for making jewelry...and that's about it.
Gold has held its value since before biblical times. There's no scam about that fact & that is not going to change. Gold is also a "hedge" against hyperinflation and/or other financial uncertainties.

Try selling blue chip stocks, bonds, etc., in an extended shtf scenario in America? Try exchanging Russian Rubles, Chinese Yuan/Renminbi, French Franc's in the same? Try exchanging any paper denominated investment in the same?

Good luck with that.

Gold is a valuable physical commodity. All fiat currencies are nothing more than a "promise" to pay by governments. If for any reason, the government fails, there is no way the promise can be met.

Below is an example, of how fiat currencies can go wrong.

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Old 03-11-2017, 02:16 PM
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Even in the event of total collapse, there will be a need for a trade medium, and gold and silver have been the basis for currency for thousands of years, and I don't see that changing in the event of a total collapse.

And, Ironically, there will be no 'Sudden Collapse". Even in the event of a stockmarket crash, when wall street stocks take a dump precious metal prices go through the roof. In one day gold could go from 1k and ounce to 2500, in that time a couple of ounces sold and used to purchase a couple of years of food for a small family.

Certainly gold and silver remain a relatively safe prep asset. The article above in merely hogwash. Anyone who purchases gold or silver as a prep item certainly takes care to make sure the "Gubment" don't have a record of its purchase, because under the war empowerment act, all privately held gold not of intrinsic value can be confiscated and you given a promissory note from the gubment.

Besides, there are limits to the storage of dry goods supplies. In the event of a massive, prolonged SHTF, eventually a trade value currency will need to be established, and again, Gold and Silver have been the basis of that ofr thousands of years.
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:35 PM
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No "scam" & nobody suggests metals are a "cure-all" for Armageddon.
If you don't want to buy, don't buy.
Denis
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:09 PM
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You first pay the government 38% to 43% capital gains tax, then 8.82% state income tax, 6% testing fee, $23,302 broker fees (T. Rowe Price), storage fees for 162 pounds of Gold. In order to guarantee bullion integrity it must be stored in a certified location to guarantee no hanky panky with the purity, etc.
Good lord where do you live.....lol
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMills357 View Post
Yes, it is possible for gold and silver to be worth zero, in a crisis/meltdown. And a lot of people do not want to hear about that, but it is true.
Any real meltdown in America, will bring out things that are undreamed of. What do you do when gold is worthless? I don't know, but it is possible.
Please show where in the last 10,000 years this has occured.


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Old 03-11-2017, 05:35 PM
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I try not to base my decisions solely on worst case scenarios.
I can tell you if I bought that much gold i wouldnt be paying
anyone to store it, nor would any broker be getting a cut and
NO WAY I would be selling any amounts large enough at once
to be paying any taxes on it.

I buy for an investment along with other things I can physically
hold in my hands, not that fake crap that can disappear like a fart
in the wind
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:47 PM
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Oh, good. Another variation of the "you can't eat gold" hypothesis.

I always love this lecture and I must have read it on SB at LEAST 100 times before
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:03 PM
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I prefer silver, it has antimicrobial properties and excellent electrical conductance so I think it is a little more useful than the yellow metal.
This may be a stretch, but say....SHTF.
If we rebuild the grid or civilization I would think silver would have value for electronics alone.

Just speculation though.
I'm not at "investment" stage in my life yet, but I hold a little physical.

Gold is too expensive for me, I can go down to the coin shop and buy a few silver coins at 18bucks a pop, a little more difficult with gold at 1200$ an ounce.
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:05 PM
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Gold is really just a fiat currency. It has no inherent value, like water, food, ammo...

It's only value is that people think it's valuable.

Tell me one inherently valuable thing about gold (~$1100 oz) that justifies it's current value at about 50 years worth of clean drinking water (~5 cents per gallon)....

...or ~5,000 rounds of pistol or rifle ammo...

... or ~5 weeks worth of groceries @ $225/wk....

Gold is a rich luxury item for modern traders and speculators, it's not a currency for SHTF.

Here's a hypothetical thought exercise.

You magically are transported with 1 modern rifle and 10,000 rounds of ammo (Modern day equivalent of say 5 oz. of gold) for it back to Rome during its reign and unlimited wealth. After demonstrating the power of this boomstick to the king, and able to name your price for it, how much gold do you think it would be worth? The value would be measured in cart loads of gold or a small kingdom and land as far as you can see.

The only reason gold held value, was because there simply was nothing else of long-term value... there were no canned goods, no firearms and self contained ammo, etc.
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:07 PM
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I just bought some silver bars (they will be here on Mon) for the first time on Friday. I bought 4 1oz mint bars of .999 of sunshine eagle and a 2oz hand poured bar of .999 which was minted by Monarch Precious Metals...

Not real sure what format I'm supposed to buy silver in, but the consensus seems to be to buy the bars, I'm not buying for the collectors market, I'm buying to hold and then sell if/when the price goes up to a minimum of 3 times what I paid for it...

Unless the price goes up more than it is right now I'll plan on buying the same amount every month...

The wife and I already have investments in private 401K's and she has another where she works...we are already guaranteed a nice dollar amount every month when we start drawing from them, plus we'll get our monthly penance from SS so we'll be OK...

The reason we've decided to buy silver is more for our 15yr old daughter so she can sell it in the future...I figure we'll buy the same amount once a month for the next two years as she'll be almost be 18yrs old at that time...

Any suggestions...
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:56 PM
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Default The Truth About the Gold and Silver Scam

When my wife and I die, any money we have will be taxed to heck and back before our boys see a penny. Physical holdings like cash, jewelry, guns and PMs are easier to pass on without uncle scam getting a taste.
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Old 03-11-2017, 07:17 PM
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Sounds like a generation Y genius, living in their Mom's basement that indeed doesn't, nor ever will, HAVE any gld.
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Old 03-11-2017, 07:23 PM
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When my wife and I die, any money we have will be taxed to heck and back before our boys see a penny. Physical holdings like cash, jewelry, guns and PMs are easier to pass on without uncle scam getting a taste.
Not if you plan accordingly. Trust perhaps?
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:39 PM
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Precious metals are not fiat currency.

A significant amount of energy is put into the removal and refining of these rare metals and anyone basing value in a controlled paper futures market is in for a big shock. Yes they've rigged the game, for now, but I'm seeing metals reassert themselves, albeit slowly. Much in the way of bad news for the LBMA is coming out this week so FYI.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Gold is really just a fiat currency. It has no inherent value, like water, food, ammo...

It's only value is that people think it's valuable.


Gold is a rich luxury item for modern traders and speculators, it's not a currency for SHTF.

With all due respect, I disagree.

Several generations back, my ancestors escaped tyranny I& murder in Europe and immigrated to America, because they had gold to make passage and a new life.

My great-grandfather bought a large farm, because he had gold to pay for it with.

My stepfathers parents sent him from Germany to Switzerland in 1939 because they had gold to make passage, after WW2, he immigrated to America because they had gold to make passage.

I witnessed many Vietnamese escape Saigon as it fell, fleeing to other countries because they had gold to make passage.

I made my 1st big bucks in 79/80 in gold.

I paid for my house with gold.

I paid for BIG excavation equipment, with gold.

I am neither a trader or speculator..........

Besides land, I will leave my progeny gold to help secure their way in life.

But, do have relative wealth, because I hold gold.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:08 PM
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In a total grid down permanent collapse gold and silver will probably not hold a HUGE amount of value.

BUT......

A more likely scenario is a form of financial collapse..... In this kind of situation gold and silver will be king.... Just look at Venezuela, people are trading jewelry for food and other essentials as I type.

Even in a total eotwawki gold and silver will likely be gladly accepted as payment for the first few months as things fall apart..... Probably permanently if the history of mankind is any indicator.

NOT buying silver each month is just plain stupid imo.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
When my wife and I die, any money we have will be taxed to heck and back before our boys see a penny. Physical holdings like cash, jewelry, guns and PMs are easier to pass on without uncle scam getting a taste.
Federal estate tax exemption for a married couple is currently at $10.9 million. If you have much more than that then I think it's probably past time to pony up for a lawyer and good accountant.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:23 PM
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What are the odds that finmac actually returns to his thread?

The Truth About the Golden troll Scam?
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