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Old 11-13-2016, 04:58 PM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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Default Buying some SHTF EOTWAWKI land



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Hey all, my cousin and I are looking at buying some SHTF bug out land in West Virginia/Virginia. Found some
land in northern WV for dirt cheap. Pro's of the property:
-Near water, theres a river and pond near by
-5acres
-secluded, wooded, off the grid with only a few homes nearby, but theres a small town 20 or so north.
-dirt cheap, $5,000
-mountainous
-can be reached with backroads, no main roads near by
-good place to practice barebones survival. can have our vehicles parked, go out and survive on the property without being in any danger if we screw something up

Cons:
-this is could be a pro or a con, its 2 hours from me, an hour from my cousin. in a SHTF or worse situation we could get there without getting on highways and main roads. This distance also means we won't be able to get out there more than a few times a year.
-nothing built on the land yet. this isnt a big deal though, right now we don't have as much money, but would plan to build a small cabin on the land, maybe eventually some underground stuff, but for now if we wanted to go out there and stay itd be sleeping in good old tents and cars. No big deal.

If we don'g get this land, we will get something similar. Anyone have a general guide, checklist, tips for buying land like this? Any advice to us?
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Old 11-13-2016, 06:05 PM
Threeleggeddog05 Threeleggeddog05 is offline
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Survey a must, professional title search. Ck for any reserved rights by "all" previous owners, easements, mineral rts, etc.
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Old 11-13-2016, 08:27 PM
Oakspar Oakspar is offline
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A cheap drag behind trailer camper can often be found 2nd hand for very little (a few hundred). Shipping containers are a bit more (around $2K) and are another nice option.

Either give you a dry place to sleep and get started with faster than a cabin. Of course, you can throw a cabin together with a trailer full of materials for a few hundred as well.

Your biggest problems are going to be theft and squatting - so don't leave anything valuable there - at least not in the open or in a building.
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Old 11-13-2016, 08:57 PM
ol ol is offline
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If only 5 acres, who owns the land around you?
Your secluded spot could be a neighborhood in short order.

Are you buying on your own... or with your cousin?......Sometimes not the best idea.

Zoning?....Permits?
Access road...Permits?
Easements?...like neighbor can cross you property.
(I own property on a river...50 ft easement anyone can use...as well as the river.)
Out house?.....Septic?....Permits?
Water? ...Well?....beside being "near-by"...What does that mean?....Do you own access?...You could be shut out.

Power?...At road?..........Yeah I know "off grid"....but much easier to have power to build something...then can shut it off.
Cabin....permits?

2 hours is not far....well with in one tank of fuel....there and back?
Why only a couple of times a year?

Old camper great idea......used one until cabin was built.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:46 AM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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Originally Posted by Threeleggeddog05 View Post
Survey a must, professional title search. Ck for any reserved rights by "all" previous owners, easements, mineral rts, etc.


How do you do that?
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:50 AM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakspar View Post
A cheap drag behind trailer camper can often be found 2nd hand for very little (a few hundred). Shipping containers are a bit more (around $2K) and are another nice option.

Either give you a dry place to sleep and get started with faster than a cabin. Of course, you can throw a cabin together with a trailer full of materials for a few hundred as well.

Your biggest problems are going to be theft and squatting - so don't leave anything valuable there - at least not in the open or in a building.


I like that idea. Really depends on the property, ideally we want something very discreet and hidden, being mountainous we might be able to build a small cabin into the side of a hill or something. We want to put up some game cameras and try to see if we have any people coming on the property. Possibly place up some deterents and warning signs to frighten off would be trespassers. Trespassing signs, beware of hunters signs on the borders. A shipping container into the side of the mountain would be a pretty effective storage place. Dig it out when needed, lock it up and cover when not there. Store food and survival gear inside.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:55 AM
Terasec Terasec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakspar View Post

Your biggest problems are going to be theft and squatting - so don't leave anything valuable there - at least not in the open or in a building.

i have a camp in back woods,
dang thieves have stolen random stuff like tarps rope, miscellaneous stuff
no big deal in monetary value, but when you rely on such tarps for shelter real pain to get to your camp and find it missing
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:56 AM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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Default Buying some SHTF EOTWAWKI land

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol View Post
If only 5 acres, who owns the land around you?

Your secluded spot could be a neighborhood in short order.



Are you buying on your own... or with your cousin?......Sometimes not the best idea.



Zoning?....Permits?

Access road...Permits?

Easements?...like neighbor can cross you property.

(I own property on a river...50 ft easement anyone can use...as well as the river.)

Out house?.....Septic?....Permits?

Water? ...Well?....beside being "near-by"...What does that mean?....Do you own access?...You could be shut out.



Power?...At road?..........Yeah I know "off grid"....but much easier to have power to build something...then can shut it off.

Cabin....permits?



2 hours is not far....well with in one tank of fuel....there and back?

Why only a couple of times a year?



Old camper great idea......used one until cabin was built.
Our property borders some
power lines, there are some cabins nearby, but also several other lots for sale. I don't know if those lots border our property. They've been for sale for long time.

With the cousin, we wouldn't have any issues, hes like a brother to me.

One access road, not sure what the zoning is

Will ask about easements

No septic or water, but we could tap into power if wanted. There is a large pond around 2-3 miles southwest of the property. I know I could get there with one tank, but depends on the car, I'm buying a bronco soon and know they are gas hogs. My mustang wouldn't be able to access the property.

I'm not sure how often we would get out. I'd say a few times a year at the bare minimum. I'd like to start moving forward with setting up some
sort of survival shelter on the property.

We figure within the next 1-2 years we will have a habitable structure with basic survival gear on the property. Eventually would plan to have 1-2 habitable buildings, a good network of game cameras, and some sort of underground fallout shelter.
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:01 AM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terasec View Post
i have a camp in back woods,

dang thieves have stolen random stuff like tarps rope, miscellaneous stuff

no big deal in monetary value, but when you rely on such tarps for shelter real pain to get to your camp and find it missing


Thats why we are thinking of burying anything we care about, and possibly building our living structure into the mountain side where we can bury it/dig it out when needed. id like to leave some testing objects and game cameras to see if anyone visits the property. Surely if they are greeted by us they may rethink coming back as we will be using the property for shooting drills, combat training, and target practice.
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:01 AM
Terasec Terasec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theM90NP View Post
I like that idea. Really depends on the property, ideally we want something very discreet and hidden, being mountainous we might be able to build a small cabin into the side of a hill or something. We want to put up some game cameras and try to see if we have any people coming on the property. Possibly place up some deterents and warning signs to frighten off would be trespassers. Trespassing signs, beware of hunters signs on the borders. A shipping container into the side of the mountain would be a pretty effective storage place. Dig it out when needed, lock it up and cover when not there. Store food and survival gear inside.
majority of trespassers on such lands are usually local
get to know your neighbors, let some have access to your property, they can be the ones to help keep an eye on things, they are the ones that will spot cars parked nearby and such
post your property to give people heads up of new ownership
dont need to keep it posted forever, but at least lets people currently passing your property know its yours know and your not friendly to trespassers
dont keep anything your not willing to lose on your property for the first couple years, until you get a feel of your neighbors, theft of minor things, trespassers, etc
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:05 AM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terasec View Post
majority of trespassers on such lands are usually local

get to know your neighbors, let some have access to your property, they can be the ones to help keep an eye on things, they are the ones that will spot cars parked nearby and such

post your property to give people heads up of new ownership

dont need to keep it posted forever, but at least lets people currently passing your property know its yours know and your not friendly to trespassers

dont keep anything your not willing to lose on your property for the first couple years, until you get a feel of your neighbors, theft of minor things, trespassers, etc


Maybe leave an email address or phone number? Its far away and the neighbors are off in the woods, not sure how easy it would be to meet them. Good ideas and advice, we will definitely post up to let people know. I think game cameras would serve well too, then we could see whos actually coming on the property, is it kids or vagrants? Teenagers or vandals/thieves? Also give us an idea as to the hunting conditions.
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:10 AM
Sneeky Sneeky is offline
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5 acres for $5k??? Where? What county?
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:25 AM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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Originally Posted by Sneeky View Post
5 acres for $5k??? Where? What county?


30 min out from winchester. I don't want anyone buying it out from under us. Yeah 5 acres for 5k, its been for sale since the 70's apparently. The property is difficult to get up to so there was no easy way to build anything on it.
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:37 AM
OkSixpack OkSixpack is offline
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I don't know how deep, for lack of a better word, you would be planning on putting a shipping container into the hill, but check out how easy they collapse when buried. They are not built to take the pressure of dirt pressing in on them. Sorry if you already knew that......
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:46 AM
LoveLife LoveLife is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theM90NP View Post
How do you do that?
That question should motivate you to do some serious studying.

Take a good realtor to lunch and pick his/her brain.
Find an investor and ask him/her to mentor you.
Talk to the local newspaper about local issues: property taxes, new business moving in or out, road construction, breaking ground on a nuclear power plant!
Go down to the Clerks office and ask questions.
(pick out a property for sale that you do not want and ask your questions about that property).

Once comfortable, go back and get the skinny on the property you are interested in. Confirm the legal description...many listings are dead wrong. Confirm the legal owner of the property (a lot of illegal activity in cash land sales). Check the dimensions. Confirm that stream is actually on/adjacent to your property. Zoning. Easements. Wetlands. Average depth to water. Perk tests. Building codes/restrictions. Can it be split? Property taxes and assessed value. Mineral and timber rights. What utilities are at the road? Is the city or county planning any upgrades that could impact your property?

I recommend going to the local airport and have the operator fly you over the property. Take photos and make notes on the neighboring properties. Many times, I have found over that hill, or behind that stand of trees, a landfill, a sewage plant, a gravel pit, etc. Google map pictures are dated. A fly over is current.

Think about financing, even if you have the cash. Maybe the seller will offer financing or a land contract. That keeps your powder dry and offers options if say an adjoining 10 acres comes on the market at a fire-sale price.

Always invest in title insurance!

If you are buying the property with your cousin, put the arrangement in writing. Whether you use a lawyer or online boilerplate, protect your investment with a contract that outlines the percent each of you own and what happens if...?
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Old 11-17-2016, 12:15 PM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveLife View Post
That question should motivate you to do some serious studying.



Take a good realtor to lunch and pick his/her brain.

Find an investor and ask him/her to mentor you.

Talk to the local newspaper about local issues: property taxes, new business moving in or out, road construction, breaking ground on a nuclear power plant!

Go down to the Clerks office and ask questions.

(pick out a property for sale that you do not want and ask your questions about that property).



Once comfortable, go back and get the skinny on the property you are interested in. Confirm the legal description...many listings are dead wrong. Confirm the legal owner of the property (a lot of illegal activity in cash land sales). Check the dimensions. Confirm that stream is actually on/adjacent to your property. Zoning. Easements. Wetlands. Average depth to water. Perk tests. Building codes/restrictions. Can it be split? Property taxes and assessed value. Mineral and timber rights. What utilities are at the road? Is the city or county planning any upgrades that could impact your property?



I recommend going to the local airport and have the operator fly you over the property. Take photos and make notes on the neighboring properties. Many times, I have found over that hill, or behind that stand of trees, a landfill, a sewage plant, a gravel pit, etc. Google map pictures are dated. A fly over is current.



Think about financing, even if you have the cash. Maybe the seller will offer financing or a land contract. That keeps your powder dry and offers options if say an adjoining 10 acres comes on the market at a fire-sale price.



Always invest in title insurance!



If you are buying the property with your cousin, put the arrangement in writing. Whether you use a lawyer or online boilerplate, protect your investment with a contract that outlines the percent each of you own and what happens if...?


Eh thanks, but definitely over the top for such a cheap property. A plane ride overhead would cost 1/5 of the property value. We can scout the area out, but we aren't going to do any fly over.
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Old 11-17-2016, 12:17 PM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkSixpack View Post
I don't know how deep, for lack of a better word, you would be planning on putting a shipping container into the hill, but check out how easy they collapse when buried. They are not built to take the pressure of dirt pressing in on them. Sorry if you already knew that......


Haven't been to the property yet, I didn't plan on putting one 100 feet into a mountainside, but if we could cover it enough and make it blend than that could work. Thinking back though I doubt we can get a container out there. Too remote and hard to get to from what i've been told
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:05 PM
theM90NP theM90NP is offline
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We have planned with the real estate agent to go on saturday to check out the property, i'll snap some pics and post them then.
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:10 PM
Terasec Terasec is offline
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Originally Posted by theM90NP View Post
We have planned with the real estate agent to go on saturday to check out the property, i'll snap some pics and post them then.
take 2 cars to the property, when done with agent ask if you can stick around and look again, will allow you to look deeper and check other sections
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:18 PM
kraigwy kraigwy is offline
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As to a cabin, whether you buy this land or another property.

When you build a cabin, before you put in the floor, dig a large hole, this can be used for storage and will work as a root cellar.

When you lay your boards for the floor, use screws. Remember what boards cover the hole.

That way, if you aren't at the cabin all the time, you can stash everything you don't want stolen.

I like that better then a regular trap door, as you storage is hid in plain sight.

Another idea if you don't have running water to the cabin is to buy a large plastic tank, 400 gal or so, bury it under the floor also.

I did that when I built a cabin in Alaska. I had a small pump to pump water into the tank from a creek. Then I put a hand pump in so wife could pump water from the tank. Her not having to fetch water from the creek after chopping ice made for a happy wife.

The water in the tank under the floor didn't freeze in Alaska, so I doubt it would freeze in WVA.

Depending on the size of the cabin you can have both the water tank and the root cellar.
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