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Old 08-14-2015, 09:58 PM
gkitchens gkitchens is offline
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Default Analyse my bug out route and bag



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So I've been lurking for a long time, and I believe this is my first post. I've got two goals with this post:
1 I would like advice or suggestions on my bug out route
2 advice or suggestions on my BOBs

In the event of worst case SHTF, It will be myself, my wife and our soon-to-be-born son, as well as possibly my 6 year old (joint custody with his mom.)

(1) I live is a small rural town in Texas, but it's right off a major highway and I'm in an apartment. There's no practical way to bug in IMHO.

My BOL is not far, 13 miles by highway/major roads, or 9.5 miles by back road. There are several major routes to get me there but in SHTF, depending on scenario or course I would not trust a single one of those routes. So the back road is the only logical route pretty much under any bad circumstance. on foot, with no pack or danger (aka in theory) on foot, it's 3 hours, by car @ speed limits, it's 23 minutes. Not bad, I know. Carrying baby and packs, and depending on danger level, time of day or weather I'm assuming that it will take 5 to 6 hours or more.

I would like to share some pictures of the maps and routes, and see if anyone can offer a better, safer or shorter route to BOL. There is lots of open fields between home and BOL which makes things difficult, esp. since this is Texas, everyone has a gun, and my appearance won't exactly inspire a hug.

Of course I want to be careful not to give out my address, or the address of my BOL so I'll be spending a few minutes after i post this to edit out street names and etc.

(2) I don't have the means to buy a proper BOB at this time, but I'm only packing for three days, and should not need a large part of what I'm packing, so basic supplies and a cheap bag will likely do. The BOL is well stocked, so other than my rifles I don't need to take anything for long term.

BOB will consist of:
7.62x39mm rifle (SKS Sporter in near mint condition for the curious)
Roughly 200 7.62 rounds, two loaded 30 rounds mags.*
16 inch pump 12g.
20 12g rounds*
10+ Quarts of water (need advice on how best to transport this if by foot)
Short term food (snacks):
- For me, a can or two of pork n beans will do
- For wife, she will be breast feeding so she could need much more
- We'll bring a bottle or two & an extra can of formula for the baby, JIC.
- Snack bars and cans of ravioli for oldest son.
Rain gear if bad weather is anticipated.
Map & compass. though not vital.**
Rain boots/waders.***
Good quality large knife
A few bic lighters new in package
A 9v batt. and steel wool
ABS plastic trowel (not vital but makes me feel better)
very small bottle of sun screen
Bug spray
Medkit:
-Duct tape
-Gauze
-Bandaids
-Pain reliever for wife
-Sanitizer
Head mounted flashlights and batteries

I have not put the pack together yet but I do have all of these items together.

What do you guys think? I'm finally getting my BOB put together. route pictures coming shortly. Don't be afraid to share your opinion, I'm not ascared or easily offended. routes and map pictures coming shortly.

* I am taking so much ammo because it is all I have at home base, several thousand more rounds at BOL
** We're intimately familiar with the area, and I've got excellent sense of direction (thanks to the Army.) If we moved beyond the surrounding 40-50 miles, it would become vital to me.
*** If all roads are blocked including the back road, our only choice will be through the woods in a strait line. we'll have to cross two major creeks and some flood prone area. The waders or boots will be left behind after crossing.

EDIT Apparently this is not my first post. Who knew?
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Old 08-14-2015, 10:16 PM
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Drive the vehicle as far as you can before going on foot. Man on foot with family is much more vulnerable. Saves a lot of time and who knows? Might make it all the way with no problems.
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Old 08-14-2015, 10:31 PM
gkitchens gkitchens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcArthur View Post
Drive the vehicle as far as you can before going on foot. Man on foot with family is much more vulnerable. Saves a lot of time and who knows? Might make it all the way with no problems.
if all roads become blocked, I wont be able to take a vehicle at all ( I live on a main road) but if I am able, I can drive the entire route, or there is a point half way along the route that narrows to within one mile of the road my BOL is on and it is a pipeline lane. so I could stop there in the car and walk across, and then down a secure street to my BOL. Bear in mind, wife will be armed with a shotgun and is very proficient in survival tactics, and situational awareness as well. The children could def. slow us down if on foot or compromise us but there' not much i can do about that.
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Old 08-14-2015, 10:37 PM
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Throw a spare set of keys in the bob. So you don't forget them.

Not going to bother with a tent or something?
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Old 08-14-2015, 10:59 PM
gkitchens gkitchens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
Throw a spare set of keys in the bob. So you don't forget them.

Not going to bother with a tent or something?
the spare keys are a good idea. Nah on a tent, even in a really bad situation we should be able to move 9 miles in under 18 hours on foot.

EDIT During cold months blankets and heavier clothes will be included.

Last edited by gkitchens; 08-14-2015 at 11:00 PM.. Reason: forgot some stuff
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Old 08-14-2015, 11:34 PM
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No survival tactic will "protect" a couple with children moving on foot. If your group took even one casualty the result is catastrophic, probably the end of the line for the rest. All it takes is one guy with a carbine behind concealment 50 yards off the path.
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Old 08-14-2015, 11:41 PM
gkitchens gkitchens is offline
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I'm sorry I don't know how to resize. General layout


Showing limited cover for direct foot route.


showing where the backroad connects to BOL location


If we were forced to detour, this is where we would drive to and then continue on foot.
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Old 08-14-2015, 11:57 PM
gkitchens gkitchens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcArthur View Post
No survival tactic will "protect" a couple with children moving on foot. If your group took even one casualty the result is catastrophic, probably the end of the line for the rest. All it takes is one guy with a carbine behind concealment 50 yards off the path.
I mean no disrepect, but what then would you do, take a magic carpet? if roads become impassible, the only alternative is on foot. Plan A, B, C and D are to arrive at BOL by car. Plan X and Y are to go on foot and plan Z is to cut through the woods.

What I might not be communicating to you clearly, is that prefered primary EVAC is a road that literally may not see more than 10 cars a year (seriously. I've lived her my entire life and never happened upon another car on this road while driving on it.it used to be impassible if it had rained even one time in any three months of the year) but it has recently been graveled. It is the backroad of backroads, and as you will see, there are very few structures on this road. It is also a strait shot, and other than one tree line on either side it is mostly clear, so we would be able to see 99% of any human threat before it saw us. It is also an area we know, so we have that to our advantage. I should also add that after 4 miles, wife's family live in the area and they are well known members of the community, so it is a generally safe area for us with residents.

My rambling on is simply to say, walking is not even near our first plan, but it is worst case and that's what I'm trying to work out right now. If you have a better way to make that 9 mile hike, i am very interested in hearing it.
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Old 08-15-2015, 12:17 AM
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Have you considered dirt bikes? They'll go places no car can go, give you enough speed to cut the time you are exposed to a minimum and make you a harder target to hit. (They are a curse on some of the steeper hiking trails out here.) You might also try to find other like minded people to accompany you on the way. Larger group would be more intimidating to a would be attacker.

Maybe go at night? Nobody is going to be watching foot trails at 3 in the am.
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Old 08-15-2015, 12:26 AM
gkitchens gkitchens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcArthur View Post
Have you considered dirt bikes? They'll go places no car can go, give you enough speed to cut the time you are exposed to a minimum and make you a harder target to hit. You might also try to find other like minded people to accompany you on the way. Larger group would be more intimidating to a would be attacker.

They are a curse on some of the hiking trails out here.
I have thought about that, but I'm at apartments and have no place to store them, nor do I have the money to buy even cheap ones. It is an excellent idea though. As far as moving in a group, that's not going to be possible. I'm actually heading to my BOL to link up with my group, very close family and friends, they will not be welcoming to others, we all have a very firm long term plan (the whole street actually, other than one or two) and I've not got anyone else that would go with us outside of wife's mother and sister.
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Old 08-15-2015, 12:28 AM
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How about going at night? Robbers and looters have to sleep too. They'll be focusing on the daytime when the picking is easier.
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Old 08-15-2015, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcArthur View Post
How about going at night? Robbers and looters have to sleep too. They'll be focusing on the daytime when the picking is easier.
night would def. work as long as the situation didn't call for immediate GTFO during the day. The only thing that would hamper that would be my 6 year old's petrifying fear of the dark, should he be with me when SHTF. but with a chemlight or flashlight he would probably be okay. I've also been working to get my hands on another bicycle and teaching the wife to ride them (she was raised by single mother who was/is pretty badly overweight so she never taught either of her daughters how to ride. that would allow us to travel faster than on foot and more quiet than dirtbikes. 9 miles would not take long on bikes and a consistent pace, around an hour at least, maybe less. Wont be able to move really fast though since we'll both have a child on board. we'd probably be able to manage 10mph.
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Old 08-15-2015, 01:52 AM
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A lot faster than 2-3 mph. Any chance you could cache supplies en route so you don't have to carry them with you?
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Old 08-15-2015, 05:07 AM
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I hope your shotgun is 18". Do you have a jogging stroller. One of those 2.5 gallon water jugs from the store are reasonably tough and reseal well.

Used Bic's are proven, new in the box ones are unknowns. A ferro rod is a better back up option than a 9V and steel wool. The batteries out of your flashlight will start steel wool (2 or 3 AAA held in series in your hand will work) but not as instantly as the 9V.

I wouldn't be carrying 200 rounds, the 2 30 rounds mags is enough. I'd pack extra socks, gum, baby changing needs (wipes, towels, diapers, toilet paper) instead.
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Old 08-15-2015, 08:01 AM
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Looks like you have been watching too many TV shows....

Let me fix that for you. Give me a few minutes.
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Old 08-15-2015, 08:41 AM
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BOB will consist of:
Quote:
7.62x39mm rifle (SKS Sporter in near mint condition for the curious)
Roughly 200 7.62 rounds, two loaded 30 rounds mags.*
16 inch pump 12g.
20 12g rounds*
I would ditch these for more concealable hand guns. Carry 3 extra mags and that is it. If you get into a fire fight, where you end up using all 3 mags, you are likely shot and dying at that point anyway.


Quote:
10+ Quarts of water (need advice on how best to transport this if by foot)
For all 3 people 10qts, this is good. I would have each person carry a 2qt stainless steel bottle and a separate 2L water bladder. This system should also have a sawyer mini water filter and a bandanna to go with it.

A set up like that will give you near infinite potable water. Just fill the bladder, using the bandanna to prefilter larger particulates, put the sawyer filer on the end, and the clean water goes in the 2qt SS bottle. Additionally, the SS bottle can boil water as well. You can even cook in it if need be (although, I carry a separate cookset myself)

I would drink the first quart right before leaving, and top off while you can.


Quote:
Short term food (snacks):
- For me, a can or two of pork n beans will do
- For wife, she will be breast feeding so she could need much more
- We'll bring a bottle or two & an extra can of formula for the baby, JIC.
- Snack bars and cans of ravioli for oldest son.
9.5 miles is a 6 hour walk, at a snails pace. Assuming you will have food when you get there, the best option would be to pack a few days worth of trail mix (Heavy on dried fruits), and some beef jerky. Obviously the formula will be essential.



The problem with all the can foods, is that they are really heavy..and you are only going 9.5 miles anyway. You can skip lunch if you wanted, and probably not suffer all that much. I hike 10 or 12 miles without eating all the time.

Although, if you are bugging out, you are in a crisis situation (or you would not be doing it). Having several days of food is essential. Things may not go as planned and you may get caught out longer than you thought.

Quote:
Rain gear if bad weather is anticipated.
Good. This is shelter. You would be supprised at what you can survive with a good rain system and a good jacket. Carry one for each member no matter what. Weather reports can't be counted on in a crisis situation.

Quote:
Map & compass. though not vital.**
I would carry that either way. Never leave the compass home.

Quote:
Rain boots/waders.***
For me, I would use Seal-line waterproof socks instead. They are much lighter and just as water proof. When you get to the marsh, take off your regular pants, and just wear the ones from your rain system. Or even change into swim trunks (I would have them on underneath from the start). Then just switch to the seal line socks and go.

That gives you a functional way to cross the marsh, keeps your cloths dry, and is a world lighter than boots and waders.


Quote:
Good quality large knife
I would have a good pocket folder as well. Something like the blade found on a multi tool, or a Buck 110. If for some reason you get caught out over night, a lightweight folding saw might also be an option, but that would be a convenience, not a necessity.


Quote:
A few bic lighters new in package
A 9v batt. and steel wool
You need to focus on reality here. That starts with an HONEST assessment of your fire making skills. How good are you? My thought is that your choices reflect a lack of fire starting skill (The 9V batter/steel wool is a give away....it's a gimmick to impress the girls...not a real method anyone would rely on)

So going with the idea that you have minimal fire making skills, you are going to need as much help as possible. So, lets explore the options:

The novice will have a lot of trouble getting a fire going. They often completely empty bic lighters, and use a whole box of matches just to get one fire. So we need flame extenders to help you conserve those ignition sources.

I would carry the 3 bics, and a pack of waterproof/storm proof survival matches as my ignition sources. One pack for each member. Then I would add three 9 hour food warmer candles (like the kind a caterer would use when they cater food to a party), 3 packs of self relighting birthday candles, 3 small bottles of hand sanitizer, 3 tubes of Vaseline and a ziplock bag of cotton balls.

The hand sanitizer is flammable and held back as a last resort. What you would do is build your base fire structure (see Dave Canterbury vds on a "Fire Lay" and any vid on Boyscout fire teepees.). Use the bic to quickly light the birthday candles and try to THEM light your fire structure. That is what conserves your lighter fuel. If that does not work, you may need more help. Smear the cotton balls in the Vaseline, and out those under the fire structure and light them. In wetter conditions, you may need to dry out damp tinder. that is where the food warmer candle comes in.

This concept preserves your lighter and matches, and instead uses a larger, cheaper, 'light and easy to carry' extender to do the actual work. I have never seen a faster or more reliable way to have fire in the woods. The only thing I would add for more experienced guys is a magnesium rod and firesteel combination.


Quote:
ABS plastic trowel (not vital but makes me feel better)
I would upgrade to a titanium one. It is abut the same weight, and is much, much more capable. You may need it for fire management if you get caught out over night.

Quote:
very small bottle of sun screen
Bug spray
Medkit:
-Duct tape
-Gauze
-Bandaids
-Pain reliever for wife
-Sanitizer
I would add some for of antihistamine for bug bites and unexpected allergic reactions. Also add antibacterial gel for cuts and wounds.
Quote:
Head mounted flashlights and batteries
These are always good!

Quote:
What do you guys think? I'm finally getting my BOB put together. route pictures coming shortly. Don't be afraid to share your opinion, I'm not ascared or easily offended. routes and map pictures coming shortly.
I would keep a 8X10 tarp, a furlined fleece or wool hoodie and a roll of #36 contractor grade Mason's line for each member as well. Additionally, I would keep a complete change of cloths, and extra sox & skivies. Remember, you are in emergency conditions. Unexpected things can severely alter your plans and you may need to make your own shelter for the night.
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Old 08-15-2015, 09:50 AM
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I assume you BO location is well stocked.

1. Being a Texas native myself, if the weather is bad I wouldn't cross a flooded creek with my wife and small kids. Make a shelter, and a fire and wait it out. It won't take long.

2. Fire, with small children you would need a fire quick, bring some tinder. Everything you need to make the tinder is in your medics cabinet.

3. You have a bag for your gear already, you don't have to buy one. Does your kid go to school? If so his backpack can be used. He can carry a gallon of water. Make sure he has an emergency whistle if you get separated. His favorite toy too. That will help him cope. Your wife's diaper bag will work too. Her purse, do you work out? Did you in high school? Still have that gym bag? There are options here think creative about it. There is also this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb79ATSEZBc

4. I didn't see toilet paper.

5. Take advantage of back to school sales and go buy a book bag. My wife's bag is a janssport. Pretty tough bag.

6. I wouldn't ditch your boots. Your shoes and your knife are than the gold in your pocket. If they get wet. Stop, build a fire, and a shelter and warm up.

7. Get another knife. Never leave home without two. Yes, a multi-tool with a blade counts.

8. Sling for your rifle and shotgun? Who will carry those? Your hands will be full without a pack plus you want to keep your hands free to take care of tasks.
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:45 AM
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If you think it will take 3 hours on foot to get to your BOL, then in a SHTF event it will probably take 9 to 12 hours, which might leave you out overnight. Add in extra travel time for stress from dealing with event,baby/small child and wife. I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law (Whatever can do wrong, will go wrong), so I firmly believe a SHTF event will also occur during the worst weather your area has ever seen (think of traveling on foot in extreme heat, cold, rain and/or snow). I would add:

1. tarp and 550 cord (just in case you need shelter)
2. couple usgi ponchos and liners (just in case you have to stop and overnight it).
3. Unscented bug spray
4. Unscented wet wipes
5. A fire starting kit and a small cook stove (I like Trangia Spirit Burner with a yellow bottle of HEET as fuel)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AR7970/ref=pd... cover
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AR7970/ref=pd...
6. Some way of purifying water and a small pot (to either cook, boil, or purify water).
7. Add in a couple pouches of lightweight backpacker food (Mountain House is pretty good). Lots of cheaper options from Ramen noodles, instant oatmeal, to a jar of peanut butter and crackers.
8. For a pack either get a good one (go to an REI or quality outdoor store, get fitted right and buy right the first time) or get Military surplus pack like a medium ALICE (do the Hellcat mods), MOLLE II or Marine's ILBE.

Since you are going from point A to point B, I would try to save some weight by putting a buried cache or two somewhere along your route. Another option is a trail cart or one of those heavy duty running/jogging strollers to push or pull.
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Old 08-15-2015, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkitchens View Post
I have thought about that, but I'm at apartments and have no place to store them, nor do I have the money to buy even cheap ones. It is an excellent idea though. As far as moving in a group, that's not going to be possible. I'm actually heading to my BOL to link up with my group, very close family and friends, they will not be welcoming to others, we all have a very firm long term plan (the whole street actually, other than one or two) and I've not got anyone else that would go with us outside of wife's mother and sister.
Mountain bike with kid carriers attached. Cheap and effective.

In th off seson maybe they could do double duty and take your kids to the local park.
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Old 08-15-2015, 01:10 PM
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I may have missed something, but I assume the BOL is in some kind of a cabin or rural ranch/house and is vacant? If it's just around 10 miles from your apartment/townhouse, is it possible to move into the BOL and just live there? I understand it when people are dozens of miles away from their BOL and cannot live out of it year round due to the work commute issues - but 10 to 13 miles? Just doesn't make sense to me.
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