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Old 04-03-2015, 03:18 AM
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This so depends on how you yourself feel about it and other circumstances surrounding the situation.

I was thinking, I'm growing a lot of medicinal herbs and learning about them. For instance, things that are easy to grow like oregano and garlic appear to be excellent anti bacterial/viral/fungal remedies, and have been used in the past as well.

Since I'm always curious and love trying out stuff, I might have been tempted to immediately apply garlic/oregano to the wounds and making oregano tea (cold for the chicken) as an antibiotic substitute to see if that would help. If I was really short of food, I might kill the chicken/rooster immediately and just eat it.

Regarding comments on the dogs, I again, think it depends on your situation what you should do with the dog.

I acquired a wonderful 3 year old german shepherd, he is a really good guard dog. I live in a Bulgarian village on 1/2 acre. I had chickens a few years ago, that were more or less free range. This was too much for my Rex, he could not resist chasing them and terrifying the chickens. Eventually my chickens mainly fled and died of other causes or got given away. Then I got 3 rabbits last fall. They were in a pen near the house. In a very bad storm, the parasol tipped over and freaked out the rabbits, which again was too much for Rex, he got into the pen and killed the rabbits (didn't eat them).

Rex has his own area to patrol in the front part of the property near the house. He is not allowed in the back field. I have now built 2 really strong pens, one for rabbits and one for chickens in the back field that Rex will not be able to get into. And I am breeding rabbits not only for a source of meat for me, but also for Rex.

So although I agree that in a survival situation if you have a dog that goes after your livestock, it's best to put it down immediately - this too would depend on what other value the dog has, and if you can come up with a solution to prevent the dog from doing this again.
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Old 04-05-2015, 03:33 PM
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The only moral dilemma I see here is how many of you can be silent when you see multiple posts about beating dogs and don't say anything about it.
It is not okay to beat dogs. It is really loathsome to beat a dog with an animal carcass. Hanging a carcass around a dog's neck is absolutely reprehensible.
Take the time to be a responsible owner for all of your animals. Separate vulnerable fowl from puppies. Make adequate containment to protect your rabbits and fowl from predators which may be dogs, foxes, etc.
Training a dog is an investment and is the responsibility of the owner. Don't put dogs in situations in which they will fail. Don't beat and kill dogs it is not ok.
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Old 04-05-2015, 03:38 PM
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Post event. Put them in the pot and have a good meal.

Pre-event. Doctor them up best you can. What you learn may help save a loved one when you are their only choice for a doctor.
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Old 04-06-2015, 06:52 AM
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Moral responsibility? Eat the chickens, train the dogs, collect your due compensation. The only responsibility is to fix your fence, which was not able to do what it was supposed to do in the first place.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev View Post
A few weeks ago my cousins puppies got into the chicken yard where they killed a Golden Wyandotte rooster, buff orpington hen and dominique hen. Two other hens were also injured.

Both hens were recovering well, then one of the hens developed an infected spot next on her body next to her leg.

Moral dilemma post-shtf - YouTube

The dilemma I have is using limited resources in a post-collapse world on nonessential livestock.

If I only had a couple of chickens then sure I could see using resources to help the hen. As it stands right now my wife and I have around 22 or 23 hens and one rooster.

But then again I have a moral responsibility to take care of my livestock and pets.

What do you think? Are limited resources a good reason to relieve yourself of a moral obligation?
No not in my opinion. Your morals should never be waived. Without them we are no better than the garbage people running our government or the ones on death row.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:27 AM
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Are limited resources a good reason to relieve yourself of a moral obligation?

Morals are funny things, aren't they? Even those of us who might say " we never kill the living" ( a quote from The Walking Dead, for those unfamiliar with it ), probably wouldn't hesitate defending a child from a murdering rapist, would we? *shrugs

As to this specific case, did you say whether your cousin's dogs were visiting, or lived with you? If they were just there visiting, I'd make sure they never came to my place again. If they live with you, SOMEONE needs to train those pups to leave your girls alone. When I first got chicks, my 3 dogs were very interested in them while they were inside the house in the brooder. Any time they appeared to be too interested, I said "NO!!" and made them stop. In time, the only looks the chicks got was when there was squawking going on. I'd let the dogs go over, look at the chicks and tell them to "watch Mama's girls". They were allowed a short look and then I'd call them to me and praise them. The chicks are now grown, we are a few generations in now, and the dogs and hens co-exist when I let the girls out for their daily roam around the yard in summer.
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Old 04-06-2015, 11:48 AM
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If killing an injured food animal makes your balls shrink, I doubt you will have what it takes to survive a collapse. Save your time and stop reading this website.

What retard came up with the idea to tie a dead animal around a dog? What the hell is that supposed to do? Teach them that if they try to eat an animal that you will tie another tasty animal around their neck for them to try to eat? You do know that dogs like rotten meat too, right?

Training dogs isn't rocket science. Dogs have the IQ of a retard, but are geniuses when it comes to learning by association. Reward good behavior, punish bad behavior, both in ways that the dog can associate the result with the cause. It seemed like the real problems (as usual) were the humans, not the dog. Why would you expect an untrained dog not to attack chickens, or any other small animal that runs around? It is what they do.
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Old 04-06-2015, 12:39 PM
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In an extreme SHTF situation everyone's morals are going to be seriously challenged and more than a few thrown by the wayside..Sad to say but, it is the reality of it.
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Old 04-06-2015, 11:35 PM
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I would never have "girls". They're animals. If I were to ever name them their names would be Fried, Fricassee, Baked, Roasted, and Barbecue.

Dogs need training. I would not punish the dogs for failure of their human to properly train them.
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Old 04-07-2015, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev View Post

The dilemma I have is using limited resources in a post-collapse world on nonessential livestock.

If I only had a couple of chickens then sure I could see using resources to help the hen. As it stands right now my wife and I have around 22 or 23 hens and one rooster.

But then again I have a moral responsibility to take care of my livestock and pets.

What do you think? Are limited resources a good reason to relieve yourself of a moral obligation?

If you don't want to waist limited resources on a sick chicken, kill the chicken and use it for something, like food, dog food, or bait. I don't see that as being immoral.
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Old 04-07-2015, 12:52 AM
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Training dogs isn't rocket science. Dogs have the IQ of a retard, but are geniuses when it comes to learning by association. Reward good behavior, punish bad behavior, both in ways that the dog can associate the result with the cause..
Darn right a good dog will learn by association. My dog "Sarge" sure did. Got him as an unweaned rescued pup, so small I could hold him in the palm of my hand. Which I bottle fed, weaned to solid food & trained from day one. He is 10YO now, 106 pounds of intelligent cast iron muscle.

I'm a retired mining engineer. When not actually placer gold mining spend every possible moment in isolated rugged areas, prospecting for placer gold deposits. Most often panning along stream courses.

Sarge always had his nose in every pan, sniffing and trying to figure out what I was hunting for. By the time he was 3, he had it down pat, by smell. Placer gold is most often associated with black sand (magnetite, with variable amounts of ilmenite and hematite. Valuable mineral components often occurring with black sands are monazite, rutile, zircon, chromite, wolframite, and cassiterite.)

Which Sarge learned to ID by smell. Once he figured that out, if I was traversing along a placer gold bearing stream, with a shovel & pan. He would put his nose to the ground and traverse a short distance in front of me, sniffing.

If he stopped & started digging, sure as water is wet, I would dig right there, screen down, and run a few pans. Often getting results like below.



In other words, after learning by association Sarge is a far better placer gold prospector, than any person I know.

Same goes for whenever he see's me break out a trout fishing pole. He starts hunting & pointing trout, as below.

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Old 04-07-2015, 08:04 PM
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Pointing fish? I've never heard of that before. Have you tried getting him to retrieve?
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:03 AM
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Pointing fish? I've never heard of that before. Have you tried getting him to retrieve?
To him "fishing pole" in my hand means, we are hunting fish.
He likes to hunt.
I have seen him chase & catch small trout in a shallow narrow stream.

If commanded to, he will retrieve anything I shoot.

When he was young, it was a task teaching him NOT to go after & attempt to retrieve deer and elk I didn't shoot.

Only dog I have ever seen catch a quail. If he see's a covey land in sage brush, he would do a eyes wide open slow walk to get close, then charge into the brush where the covey is. As they take flight, sometimes (if he was lucky), he would pull one down like other dogs catch frizz bees.

He is an excellent tracker & has been on several successful search/rescue missions.

Only serious "fault" he has is a tendency to disobey when a female dog in smelling range is in heat.
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Old 04-08-2015, 07:03 AM
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A chicken with an infection? Dang, I had one that had it's butt ripped out by a possum and it recovered fine. I've never even heard of chickens with infections. We have flies up here that will lay maggots that will clean out any bad flesh. No need to waste anything. If I was going to waste something it would just be some sugar packed into the wound. Chickens heal or they don't and there's not much else to do for them that nature won't.

I have peacocks that wandered into my old farm that I moved to this farm. If I had to grow food without petroleum to run the tractor I would find out what peacock tastes like to save the bird food for the birds that give something more than feathers and big piles of poop.
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Old 04-09-2015, 08:41 AM
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Eat the chicken, eat the dogs too. If it breathes its food at some point, better to get that set in your mind first before it becomes a serious issue
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Old 04-09-2015, 09:24 PM
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A year ago I had a chicken with a severe wound caused by a fox. The fox actually had the chicken in it's mouth and would have run off with it if my awesome rooster hadn't shown up and given that fox hell.

I thought there was no way the chicken would live, but I'm of the opinion that if the animal has a chance to live, unless it is in great pain, don't take the chance away from it. I didn't treat the wound at all. The chicken is currently laying eggs for me. Chickens are tougher than people think.

As far as the dogs go, it's BS that once a dog has tasted blood, they will always be killers. I have trained my 10 year old dog to stop killing chickens (and cats), so it can be done. Of course it depends on the dog, but to make such a generalization as people make above is simply ignorant.
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Old 04-11-2015, 03:36 AM
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I grew up on a ranch and we had to train all the dogs not to eat the rabbits or chickens. It worked great and never had any casualties.

It takes an hour each day inside the chicken pen with the puppies, but we had them on a lease and held them in place and said no each time they wanted to chase a chicken. No, friend, chickens are friends, be nice. Like talking to a child, dogs pick it up. They are smarter then people believe. It worked great.
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Old 04-11-2015, 07:39 AM
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I'd beat your cousin senseless with a dead chicken and then tell them they owe you for the livestock.

If someone cannot control their animal they don't need to own one.
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Old 04-11-2015, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonny View Post
The only moral dilemma I see here is how many of you can be silent when you see multiple posts about beating dogs and don't say anything about it.
It is not okay to beat dogs. It is really loathsome to beat a dog with an animal carcass. Hanging a carcass around a dog's neck is absolutely reprehensible.
Take the time to be a responsible owner for all of your animals. Separate vulnerable fowl from puppies. Make adequate containment to protect your rabbits and fowl from predators which may be dogs, foxes, etc.
Training a dog is an investment and is the responsibility of the owner. Don't put dogs in situations in which they will fail. Don't beat and kill dogs it is not ok.
You are right about beating the dog or tying the carcass around its neck. The dog should be shot in the head and be done with it.
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Old 04-13-2015, 12:17 PM
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It greatly depends on how your dog is trained as to whether or not I would consider it "non-essential"

That thing SHOULD be a living breathing alarm system and highly praised for alerting on anything going on. They hear better than you and smell better than you and if you let it know that alerting you to something (almost anything) out of the ordinary will draw praise (instead of being yelled at like most idiots ... I mean owners do to their dogs simply when their dog barks at something and trying to tell you about it) a dog is HIGHLY useful.

But you do ALSO want it to be trained to lay silent when it's told as well and it should be able to lay silent under virtually any situation and stay there till you release him/her.
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