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Old 05-24-2013, 09:18 AM
Vonfatman Vonfatman is offline
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They are a good choice for social work. Excellent penetration!

They are poor choice for food gathering. Unless you buy the expensive modern 7.62x25 ammo...surplus ammo will be corrosive and REQUIRE immediate and complete cleaning. Ammo in a SHTF senario would most likely be non existant. Not a firearm I'd expect to be moving around with unless you BYO ammo. Also, a person on the move might not have the luxury of "strip & clean" time.

Another thought. Much of the surplus ammo out there is sub-gun stuff....HOT. Not a problem (IMHO) for limited use....but probably not the best for sustained use (plinking, etc)

The pistols are robust and well proven. Just factor in your intended and expected use before you select this firearm.

Bob
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by atrez43221 View Post
.22 does not have anywhere near enough stopping power as your main shtf handgun
The only thing u can put down with that is a rabid cat or a 2 year old.
... And yet I've seen folks DRT from a single round. Is it ideal? Certainly not. But let's dispense with the notion that less than service calibers are worthless. A .22 through the brain, heart, aorta, spine is just as deadly as pretty much anything else. A peripheral hit is not much less effective, at least in the short run. If being threatened by someone with a .22 would you use lethal force to defend yourself? If so, why? Assuming you're more robust than a cat or a 2 year old, are you actually in danger of death or grievous bodily harm? Of course you are, because a proper hit from a .22 is LETHAL just as a proper hit with any handgun round is lethal. A poor hit is only marginally worse.
Some folks are limited by various handicaps to .22s or .25s (virtually identical performance in small pistols). Let's not toss out such trash talk of the only calibers they can have and thereby encourage them to go about without protection.
Again, "ideal" is not for most folk's needs, but it can in fact be QUITE effective. I have the autopsy reports and case-files to prove it. I know _I_ am not standing willingly in front of one.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonfatman View Post
They are a good choice for social work. Excellent penetration!

They are poor choice for food gathering. Unless you buy the expensive modern 7.62x25 ammo...surplus ammo will be corrosive and REQUIRE immediate and complete cleaning. Ammo in a SHTF senario would most likely be non existant. Not a firearm I'd expect to be moving around with unless you BYO ammo. Also, a person on the move might not have the luxury of "strip & clean" time.

Another thought. Much of the surplus ammo out there is sub-gun stuff....HOT. Not a problem (IMHO) for limited use....but probably not the best for sustained use (plinking, etc)

The pistols are robust and well proven. Just factor in your intended and expected use before you select this firearm.

Bob
You don't actually have to "immediately" strip and clean, just do so within a reasonable time. If you wait a full day you'll likely have some surface rust in the bore/breechface area to deal with. Much longer and yes, damage can result. Exactly how long you have depends on many factors, but basic field maintenance should suffice. I usually clean my Tok or CZ52 when I get 'em home, but sometimes, shame to say, I get lazy (or distracted ... AD-squirrel!) and they sit for 24 hours or so. I know, I know, but there's the truth of it.

Most of the "Hot sub-gun ammo" is gone ... IF there ever really was that much around to start with. Some 'Tok ammo is hotter than others but well within whatever they use for specs for the pistol. There is a lot of debate about whether there ever was enough sub-gun-only ammo out there to even warrant worry. Someone could have gotten ahold of poorly loaded, double charged ammo or even proof loads.

Other that those points, I agree with you. This round BEGS for a really good, modern, factory-made JHP design. Maybe two styles: one for very rapid energy dump with just-barely-FBI-approved penetration and one with a bit deeper reach for ... well for when one may need such.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:38 AM
il.bill il.bill is offline
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Proper cleaning after firing surplus ammo using corrosive primers is not all that big a deal. The firearms used in two World Wars plus innumerable other armed conflicts fired such ammo for decades. The corrosive chemicals in the primers deposit hygroscopic salts in the weapon, particularly in the bore and chamber, that attract moisture out of the air and can quickly cause rust if not dealt with appropriately. A liberal spray down with any glass cleaner (like Windex) with ammonia will effectively neutralize the salts.

After shooting corrosive ammo, I spray down the bore and chamber with the ammonia containing glass cleaner and run a patch or two down the barrel before I pack up. When I get home, I will clean the weapon before going to sleep that night, starting with another round of glass cleaner followed by a normal cleaning with Hoppe's No. 9 and Kano-Kroil, finishing with an oil dampened patch down the bore for storage.

The only real difference I see is the added step(s) of neutralizing the salts with the ammonia glass cleaner.

For my answer to the original question, the Tokarev pistol is a solid, robust, and dependable handgun that would be suitable for use in many SHTF situations, remembering the meager combat sights and the 7.62x25mm ammunition availabilty and over penetration issues.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by deadair View Post
jeebus ...another how cheap is my life worth thread
In a SHTF situation, having an attitude can get you killed. Might want to work on that.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by John Vorberger IV View Post
i'm just wondering if a Tokarev would be good for survival.
Great until you run out of ammo.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:40 PM
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the only downside I can find to them is the fact that the rounds are generally corrosive and will require extra cleaning and use of soap to neutralize the corrosive powder and primers. I own one so I cannot speak badly of them. If I cam going to carry a single stack I would most likely go with a 1911 clone in 45 acp.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:11 PM
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When cleaning corrosive, all you really need is a good water flush then clean as you would any other firearm. Water will dissolve the salts just fine, ammonia or soap are not necessary, but the ammonia may aid a bit in removing copper fouling. I generally use boiling hot water as it dries faster and then I just clean normally with Hoppes #9. No rust yet in several Mosins or any of my X25 pistols.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:07 AM
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I've got 2 norinco toks, and 3 barrels. 2 of which are 9mm and the 3rd 7.62x25. I dont find them as comfortable as other pistols but they are solid! To be honest I havent shot any surplus through it but have alot on hand since they sell for 17cents a round locally. I dont see any problem with them, great budget pistol.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:50 AM
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Great until you run out of ammo.
In other words, it's exactly like every other gun ever invented.

Quote:
Apparently, there are individuals posting here that have never owned, or even fondled one.
That shouldn't surprise you. Remember the 95% rule.

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You can field strip an Yugo M57 and have a nakid barrel in-hand in less than 20 seconds... with NO tools.
Use the square end of the mag to pop the takedown clip off the pin...far easier than breaking your thumbnail.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:59 PM
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This gun would be no different than shooting a mosin. Most ammo is corrosive (I doubt most people here would pay 50 cents per round for non corrosive ammo). So even if it is corrosive, its not hard and dont need special cleaners to clean it.

For the price, I may pick up one.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:35 PM
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I would have the Tokarev in the 7.62X25mm for survival for exactly the same reason I'd have one of the Liberators or Deerslayers. I'd use it to obtain a better weapon.
I have a Russian Tok that I brought back from Vietnam and a couple I've bought over the years. I have a bunch of ammo for them now, but for the first 20 year since I'd been back the ammo was almost impossible to find.

It was plentiful and is now more expensive and harder to get.

Nhaaaa, for a survival gun, I'd want a Browning HP or a 1911 .45acp. Maybe a .357 Mag S&W. Or maybe all three.

Jungle Work
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:53 PM
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My M 57 is way down on my list of weapons, but I will keep it ready to go just because~~~~~~~~
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:01 PM
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The Tok and say a box or two of 40 surplus rounds is all you need to defend yourself. Thousands of rounds are not necessary for plinking, target shooting, etc in a shtf situation.
Just for defence and you are fine with that pistol or any pistol for that matter.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:10 PM
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Although the Tok is as reliable and effective as most mil-issue komblock pistols, I think the most common use they saw after WWII was placing one round in the back of prisoner's heads. I own several in 9MM and 7.62 calibers (and love them all) and you could probably fall back on using a Tok as much as any other komblock milsurp pistol.

I would recommend some other platform and caliber beside 7.62 though for reasons already stated in this thread. So many 9's, .40's and .45's out there to choose from. Once you're settled and secure on your serious guns, then you can do Toks to fulfill the itch.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:39 PM
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A 7.62X25 is every bit as awesome as ...... a .45ACP!

A TT33 pistol can drop anything!

I have dropped 550 Lb HOGS in TEXAS with my TT33.

If I had my PPS34 pistol with me that day, I could have dropped at least several more of them RUSSIAN boars.

OH, but I used a 9mm CARBINE to drop one COYOTE out there on the lease.

CHEERS!!

:-)
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:15 AM
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Other than ammo availability at your local lgs, why a .45 over the 7.62x25?
Except that logic doesn't quite hold water. We all saw what ammo went bye bye first and what was still available when nothing else was.
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:23 AM
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Understood.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Vorberger IV View Post
i'm just wondering if a Tokarev would be good for survival.
It depends on what you mean by good for survival. Are you talking about a weapon to put in your get home bag or a primary hunting and defense weapon? What are you planning on doing with it?

That said, the Tokarev is a solid, dependable and accurate weapon at a reasonable price point. However it does have unusual ammo that you are not going to be able to get everywhere and when the surplus ammo supply dries up will be more expensive than other more common calibers. Brass for reloading is not easily acquired. Stocking up now would be a very good idea. That said, I have been able to find 7.62x25 ammo where other more common calibers have dried up.

With an adequate stock of 7.62x25 ammo on hand I would rather have a Tokarev than a cheap newer firearm. I am not going to offend anyone by naming specific models but you know which ones I mean. If a Tok is what you can afford at this time, then go ahead and buy it. If you want it as a truck or bag gun, buy it.
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:11 PM
azyogi azyogi is offline
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J G Sales in Prescott AZ has M70A & M88A Zastava Tokarevs in 9mm, as for the 7.62X25 it can be formed from .223 brass. The single stack is very concealable, I carry one in 9mm. The slide mounted safety is very secure (a cam covers the firing pin) the notion that more than 8 rounds is required for SD eludes me. I do have a S&W 59 with 14 round magazines that is nowhere near as comfortable to carry as the tok. So reload with the same bullet as a .30 carbine with cases from the .223 family and a good SHTF sidearm emerges.
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