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What is the Sheriff's role in a major city? McAngus General Discussion 59 05-14-2019 09:28 AM
Houston flooding--lessons? Reality? goose3 Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 303 09-09-2017 10:46 PM

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Old 05-14-2019, 05:16 AM
unRighteousRebel.com unRighteousRebel.com is offline
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Default It's Hell down there



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I don't know about you but going underground to survive would not be my first choice, but if necessary I might be able to adapt.

I'll be honest and admit that living in an underground tunnel system gives me the willies because I think of living constantly in darkness.

But I could see coming up for daylight and provisions then making my way back to the underground lair a possibility.

One problem would be that bandits would find tunnel entrances and stake them out, we're talking dire circumstances.*

So, a secret entrance/exit would be ideal but unlikely.

When I was a teenager growing up in East Oakland, CA, there was (is) a tunnel system, a creek flow, and drainage system leading down from the hills towards the "flats" we would explore on a dare and without flashlights called The Hell Tunnels.*

I hated it down there because I couldn't see anything.

But living down there, or something like it, forget it.

I'd rather live in a cave, if possible, with some elevation.

Either way though, there are always inherent dangers with any circumstance, henceforth they don't call it Survival for nothing...
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:05 AM
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If you're in a tunnel....

There ain't but 2 ways to go and you just came from one of them
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:26 AM
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thr...ncisco-tunnels

Here you go rawhide, several YouTube videos on abandoned places around SF, there's a whole subculture that explores abandoned and hidden places online.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:03 AM
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The tunnel systems and underground cities are national and even international and are a network for the rich elite. It is their BOL, so I doubt that you would stay alive very long if you were to venture into them.



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Old 05-14-2019, 10:09 AM
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Tunnels fall into different categories but for my purposes, they are either an alternate exit for leaving a city or for temporary sheltering during a specific event.

Many cities have subway, drain, utility or other tunnel systems but they are specifically for travelling within a city. Very few I've researched are a useful path for getting out of a city. But there are some very cool tunnels out there.

When I was in college, we explored the tunnel system under the school. It had been used as a CD shelter and there were old CD boxes down there. The largest city near me has a disused and mostly blocked off steam train tunnel system used for hauling commodities from the 19th century to the 1940's. I visited a connected building to the system and the tunnels were incredibly elaborate and still in good shape. They'd make a decent fallout shelter in a pinch.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comdot View Post
Tunnels fall into different categories but for my purposes, they are either an alternate exit for leaving a city or for temporary sheltering during a specific event.

Many cities have subway, drain, utility or other tunnel systems but they are specifically for traveling within a city. Very few I've researched are a useful path for getting out of a city.
I do not live in any major city but I do live near some. My idea was not to use it as the main plan or use it as a direct route out of the city, but more of a way to bypass certain streets or districts that are either blocked or in total chaos. Using it as a shortcut out of the city.

I was also thinking if it is long term shtf, I might travel into what's left of the city to possibly trade or scavenge. It might be a good way of getting around (depending on the situation) but there will likely be many people down there by then.

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The largest city near me has a disused and mostly blocked off steam train tunnel system used for hauling commodities from the 19th century to the 1940s.
How do they usually block off these tunnels? It would seem if one had a blowtorch, nail puller, or a pair of bolt cutters, one would easily be able to bypass these obstacles.

There is an abandoned nuclear bunker in one of the tunnel systems in SF that were blocked off about a year ago. I am curious as to how they blocked it off. Theoretically, one could break into this shelter, store a cache of supplies and lock it back up to retrieve later.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:17 PM
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I remember a good history video of Derinkuyu an old Turkish underground city. Was impressed with the details, 20k people, livestock, fuel etc...
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ManyFeathers View Post
If you're in a tunnel....



There ain't but 2 ways to go and you just came from one of them
For a short tunnel, yes. Most longer tunnels have maintenance corridors, inspection hatches, ventilation chutes, stations and other similar things that provide surface access in multiple locations. In the Cincy tunnel, there's about 5 ways in and out if I recall correctly, but most are secured from the outside. Obviously, this isn't a good way for it to work as an escape method...

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Old 05-15-2019, 12:43 PM
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Chicago is riddled with tunnels 40 feet under the downtown area. My grandfather worked in many of them when they were used to deliver steam to the major buildings in the Loop. Today they are used for cabling and electrical. There are supposedly lots of entrances in the sub-basement levels of downtown buildings.
I was in Chicago on business the time that a hole was opened up accidentally in the bottom of the Chicago River and top of the tunnel. Water flooded that basements of many buildings and affected power and communications as those tunnels were re-purposed for that. It was a huge mess.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:43 PM
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I was born and raised in Los Angeles and I can assure you the there is an extensive tunnel system under the city. Some “speakeasys” operated in the tunnels during prohibition and LAPD officers worked as bouncers. Los Angeles also has a tunnel system of huge storm drain tunnels. In SHTF, I’d rather stay above ground.
Tunnels for the (long defunct) Red Line as well.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:29 AM
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This doesn't answer your question, but many cities have a text message service notifying whenever there's a street closure, police activity, or other emergency, giving you a heads-up on developing issues. Here's the one in SF: https://sfdem.org/public-alerts

On a similar note, the app "Scanner Radio" can notify you whenever a certain number of people are tuned into the police channel (i have it set to 100 people locally, and i think 3000 nationally).

Of course, those won't work if the power is out. But if you have a firearm, and you're able to sprint fast and climb fences, i wouldn't bother with tunnels in SF - just head toward the mellower neighborhoods like the Sunset or Richmond, then down toward Lake Merced and out of the city (there are police stations along the way).
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
I was in Chicago on business the time that a hole was opened up accidentally in the bottom of the Chicago River and top of the tunnel. Water flooded that basements of many buildings and affected power and communications as those tunnels were re-purposed for that. It was a huge mess.
That's the tunnel system I mentioned that connects the subbasements in the downtown buildings. A barge hit the wall in the Chicago river and breached the tunnel system. It turns out that most buildings used the subbasements for storing old business records, which were destroyed when the subbasements flooded.

The entire Chicago Loop was raised up about 20 or 25 feet from the original ground level. If you are in the Chicago Loop, notice that the Chicago River is about 20 or 25 feet lower than the street level.

Grant Park did not exist in the 1800s. The lake came right up to Michigan Avenue. The park was built as a landfill project in the early 1900s. At one time when Chicago was a great city, they did some interesting projects.

My dad once told me that all the Forest Preserves sections and many parks that dot the Chicago areas were once trash landfills. They used to did deep holes, fill it with trash, then cover it over, and turn it into a park or Forest Preserve. I always thought it might be interesting to go deep into one of the now heavily wooded Forest Preserves and start digging.

Add Seattle to the list.

Seattle Underground

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The Seattle Underground is a network of underground passageways and basements in downtown Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington, United States that were at ground level when the city was built in the mid-19th century. After the streets were elevated, these spaces fell into disuse, but have become a tourist attraction in recent decades.
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:02 PM
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Seattle underground exists because late 1800s they raised street level along the water one floor. Former ground level store fronts are still in place but now at below current street level.

Chicago dug huge maze of subterrain tunnels. There was a narrow guage RR that hauled goods (and coal) to the downtown buildings. As noted above much of it was flooded a decade ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tunnel_Company
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:51 AM
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Unless it's just been raining hard the sewer systems are best left to the rats.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:48 AM
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I'd imagine the logistics of staying down there are difficult as many others have already expressed. A big concern would be managing traffic. How will you ensure your safety when you're asleep? Do you have people taking shifts? Is the position defensible against tweakers and anarchists?
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:16 AM
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I've been in tunnels a little. It's kind of cool.

I've also been in some major metropolitan subways. Weird vibe--- don't know why.

This subject just makes me think of what I've read about tunnel warfare, and how challenging it is.

Once again, though, as far as what the OP is specifically talking about, I just think that it's going to be a challenging environment, where you'll find a dysfunctional or panicked response to SHTF is going on.

At least, that's what I expect of my local metropolis.

It may be that an arguably good effort will be put together, but it's not going to be the right kind of people. Anarchist kids are smart, and a lot of them come from money. If you think it's possible that a lot of more or less sheeple types could acquire a lot of rice and water kind of late in the game, then I think you should allow that anarchists-- or whoever-- might bring that into the tunnels, too, and somehow hold onto it. They're not really just doofuses, even if that's what they look like.

Then their numbers and proven ability to throw their weight around at street demonstrations will be put to good effect when they have the tunnels on their side. It's sort of a fortress.

The problem is that their game won't be deep enough. It'll be like kidding themselves.

As far as what's worthwhile down there, there could be some good people who are worth prying away from the rest of the group. People who want to leave or whatever.

I just think it's going to be a dangerous place to operate, an adverse environment.

Plenty of other tunnels across the country might not be like that. But I just think it's a pretty natural thing to happen to big city tunnels-- kind of a knucklehead response to SHTF. Just walking far into the subway tunnels and seeing if that makes things work out, with very little long-term planning beyond that.

All that said-- you'll need 'em if what's going on in the streets is a little tougher than what's going on in the tunnels at that moment!!
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