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Old 04-25-2012, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ForestBeekeeper View Post
A huge problem with "nuclear war targets" is one of ideology.

We used nuclear warheads as a wartime weapon, and we targeted cities, specifically industrial centers with massive economies.

During the Cold War, many of our thinkers then assumed that any USSR nuclear attack would be focused on our cities. Because that was how our think tanks worked. But that was not how USSR thinkers worked.

Hollywood cranked out many movies assuming that our own strategy would be used against us.

But everyone has their own idea of what is valuable and what should be targeted. The wheat-belt, the corn-belt, automobile factories, power plants, harbors, military bases, power lines, R/R tracks, Interstate highway system, the possible list goes on and on.

There are as many 'experts' as there are citizens in our nation. Because everyone has their own opinion of what is 'vital' and how striking that one thing would cripple our nation. There is no 'correct' answer either.

If you could crawl inside the mind of this proposed enemy think-tank leader, and filter through his up-bringing and his war games, and how he views us; then you could form an opinion of how he would deploy a nuclear weapon. But without knowing him intimately your guesses would be wrong.

Whats more is that we have dozens of groups who may have access to nuclear weapons, and all of them have different backgrounds. They each think differently.

The result is that you have hundreds of 'possible' types of things that could be targeted. Does this enemy honestly have 100 warheads to dedicate one for each of the 100 largest cities? Do they have another 100 for military bases? Do they have another 3,000 warheads for power plants? What if they come up short will they only target hydroelectric power plants and leave the coal burning plants alone? Many cultures are super offended by our universities, the free flow of ideas is a strong 'evil' to their mindset, so how many college campuses do we have? 5,000? Private colleges, State colleges, Religious seminaries, Tech schools, and all of the remote campuses [my college had eleven campuses the last time I checked]. Want to mess with an economy? Destroying a harbor will do that nicely, so how many harbors do we have?



We have dealt with terrorist bombings and attacks for decades. Car-bombs, attempts to release gaseous poison into subway tunnels, etc, and none of us predicted the hijacking of commercial jets to dive bomb buildings. We knew an attack was coming, we had plenty of warning, we played out hundreds of scenarios and we prepared for every scenario we could think of. But we missed that one scenario, and when it hit we were not ready for it.



There are simply too many places and things that could be seen as possible targets.

Even if some idiot simply drove is Yugo down I-40 [or I-60, or I-80] until he ran out of fuel, and decided to trigger his nuclear warhead at the spot where he ran out of gas; it would have a massive effect on our culture. Regardless of where it was detonated.

The 'terror' would happen, which is the goal of being a terrorist.



IMHO a "nuclear war targets" map is next to useless.

This comes from a guy who spent nearly 20 years on FBM subs and who has had a great deal of experience playing out nuclear war strategies.

and this is why i fear it will be a planned EMP attack!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_the_tinkerer View Post
and this is why i fear it will be a planned EMP attack!!!!!!!!!!!!
An EMP device is a very specific area of technology.

There are a few small EMP devices [marketed to disable a single automobile]. But development of large scale devices has not been a high priority.

There has been very little testing of those devices.



Just like the theory of taking out inter-state highways, railroads and power-grid [which can be done coast-to-coast using only conventional HE devices]. A dozen 'attacks' in each state and our entire nation would be crippled and reduced to post-SHTF status within 3 days.

But who benefits? Is there a standing army formed on our border ready to march across? To take immediate advantage of us being crippled? Is there a Billion armed troops in formation in Canada? How about in Mexico?



Whether a half dozen high altitude EMP devices were deployed, or simultaneous conventional attacks were used to bring us to our knees, who benefits? The French? Greenland? Cuba?
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:42 AM
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The US GDP [basically all summed products, goods and services produced within US borders] is running around $14.6 Trillion.

US debt is running so high that the interest on that debt has climbed to now being equal to our GDP. http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article12759.html

If all of our products, goods, services, 100% of all our salaries were converted to tax revenue and applied to our debt; it would only be enough to equal the owed interest on our debt. None of us would have money for food, fuel or housing; and our debt would continue to grow.

This will break our nation, as surely as an EMP would.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:47 AM
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I agree with ForestBeekeeper to and extent about the nuclear war targets. We have a tendency to believe that everyone thinks like Americans. Our biggest nuclear threat right now is Iran. The middle eastern view of America is vastly different from the way we actually see things. Take the 9/11 attacks for example. Prior to the attacks, the World Trade Center in NYC was just some tall buildings to most Americans and didn't really stand for anything in our eyes. The terrorists saw it as a major symbol in the US though it had no real strategic value at all. So much so, that they hit it a second time after the first bombing failed to do any real damage. Same deal with the Pentagon. It had nowhere near the impact that hitting the Capitol or the White House would have, but to them, it was the symbol of the evil American government. Please don't take anything I'm saying here out of context. I'm by no means downplaying any of the tragic events of 9/11, just trying to point out that their idea of a high value target on our soil is vastly different from what we believed was the case. We have to realize that we are no longer fighting a conventional enemy who is interested mostly in laying claim to territory. Instead, we are fighting an enemy who's sole purpose in everything they do is to speed up the world's progress toward Armageddon. They are not interested in power, only chaos.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyVet View Post
... We have a tendency to believe that everyone thinks like Americans.
I agree.



Quote:
... The middle eastern view of America is vastly different from the way we actually see things. Take the 9/11 attacks for example. Prior to the attacks, the World Trade Center in NYC was just some tall buildings to most Americans and didn't really stand for anything in our eyes. The terrorists saw it as a major symbol in the US though it had no real strategic value at all. So much so, that they hit it a second time after the first bombing failed to do any real damage. Same deal with the Pentagon. It had nowhere near the impact that hitting the Capitol or the White House would have, but to them, it was the symbol of the evil American government.
Agreed.

It was all about symbols. Also the date was picked as being the most damaging for it's anniversary [which is completely lost on 99% of Americans]



Quote:
... Please don't take anything I'm saying here out of context. I'm by no means downplaying any of the tragic events of 9/11, just trying to point out that their idea of a high value target on our soil is vastly different from what we believed was the case. We have to realize that we are no longer fighting a conventional enemy who is interested mostly in laying claim to territory. Instead, we are fighting an enemy who's sole purpose in everything they do is to speed up the world's progress toward Armageddon. They are not interested in power, only chaos.
Also they do not present their threat to us as a uniformed army marching across our borders.

Yes, we may stay distracted by skirmishes across the globe and saddled by the financial budget of trying to be the world police-force.

But as Muammar Gaddafi spoke of during his many diplomatic trips through-out Europe and North America, through the magic of the 'Muslim demographic' [which is 'birth-rates' and open immigration policies], they will be able to take-over both the USA and EU as each culture collapses on itself.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:52 AM
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Just wanted to politely disagree with you guys saying that until 9-11 people didn't think of the WTC as a potential target. Ever see the security down there? Intense. They had already tried to blow it up about 8 years earlier.


There is no way to tell where anything will happen, but you can choose "most likely" scenarios and prep for them. Like for instance on any fall out map you see that the pattern of fall out goes from west to east ect, no matter if they hit Denver, or the bread belt, or Mount Rushmore. Prepping is not perfect, just one more thing to consider, IF one wants to use it.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmike357 View Post
Just wanted to politely disagree with you guys saying that until 9-11 people didn't think of the WTC as a potential target. Ever see the security down there? Intense. They had already tried to blow it up about 8 years earlier.
The average American citizen didn't. Bin Laden did. If you read my post a little more closely, you will see that was the point I was making.
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:57 PM
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Where I live, I hope the Herd out of St Louis goes east across the river, If they go south I am 120 miles down,I am not worried I think I am in the best place. If I need wilderness there is a place I know west of here in the wilderness jungle that they will stay out of.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:44 PM
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The average American citizen didn't. Bin Laden did. If you read my post a little more closely, you will see that was the point I was making.
Well that is very true, but then again the average American citizen is not making those fall out maps or predicting where the (insert foreign nuclear power here) will strike either.

I agree there is no telling where or when a nuclear strike would happen, I think they just go off of the "most likely" places to hit. Hell if you nuked all the NFL stadiums in the US I would cry like a baby, that could just be me though.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:20 PM
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Question Does anyone have a copy of the Photoshop file used/discussed in this old thread?

Hi,
This thread is one of the most practical discussions I've seen on this forum.

Particularly the map of the US with all the data applied as discussed.

The source map in a Photoshop format is mentioned and linked to multiple times in the thread...but the link is no longer active.

I'm praying someone still has a copy of that file?

The link provided was: http://minus.com/m8Yv18JwF#1
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:22 PM
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Holy necromancy batman
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