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Old 03-27-2017, 12:49 PM
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Article I posted on alloutdoor about having a remote cabin and using it as a bug out location.

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2017/03/27...onsiderations/

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There has been some kind of event, you and the family have permission to use a friend’s bug out location. You walk in, grab the flashlight, look around, and what do you see?
Or rather, what would you expect to see?

On the flip side of the coin, what could you do to help?
I based the article on decades of experience with my family having a hunting camp.

Sometimes we would leave notes for each other about what may have broke or what was giving us problems. You can call someone and tell them, but they may forget before they go to the camp.

The stove pilot lights are an often overlooked issue.

Mice are always an issue. They will chew through plastic jars of peanut butter.

Theft has been an issue a couple of times. We had a chainsaw and some hand tools stolen.

I like to always keep some kind of working flashlights at the camp - http://www.alloutdoor.com/2017/03/23...-bug-location/

What would yall like to see mentioned?
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:11 PM
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Maybe caches for weapons and ammo; heirloom seeds, and some useful tools. I wouldn't leave the instruction manual on the counter. That should be secreted in a mutually agreed on place.
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:40 PM
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Here are a few of my ideas on a minimal 'hunting cabin' BOL.

My suggestion for a minimal retreat located on cheap land, preferably in a forest

It is a one or two room reinforced concrete block structure with concrete roof and floor, preferably mounded over with earth, or with parallel concrete block walls with 2’ to 5’ of earth fill, and two right angle shielded entrances with simple metal doors. Size from 12’x12’ to 24’x24’, located off any beaten path, and built by hand with materials brought in on foot with a cart, or by ATV or 4WD pickup.

It would be furnished with all metal bunk bed frames, an all metal countertop assembly, and a metal picnic table with benches, all securely fastened to the concrete floor and/or walls. Alternately, concrete and/or concrete block versions could be constructed. Might even be able to incorporate secure storage inside them.

Cached close by would be equipment and a minimum of a two-week supply of food, water, and other consumables. A chemical toilet, a portable shower, and other equipment would also be cached. This includes the metal doors for the cabin. Only pieces of tarp hung over the doors would be left up when unoccupied. These you would retrieve for use in the shelter.

By leaving the structure unlocked vandals might trash things a little, but the building and furnishings are fireproof and resistant to easy damage. With a few supplies left in plain sight, such as a small box of canned goods and a few bottles of water, anyone that finds the place will probably just use up the supplies, do a little vandalism, then move on.

If it is occupied when you get there to use it yourself, you should be carrying the means with you with which you can gain possession. By building in features to make this easy, you would not even have to have a major confrontation, and certainly not try to run them out with a frontal attack on the place. You want to run them out from inside, in a manner that does not expose you to harm. If you would like some ideas on how to do this, contact me and we can discuss it.

You should be checking on the site from time to time, anyway, just to make sure you can find it when you need to, and that no one has taken up permanent residence.

If your supplies and equipment are cached securely, you will have a place, perhaps more than one, if you can afford several of these relatively inexpensive structures on cheaply obtained land, which you can go to if you must bug out from your primary residence.

An alternative, if it is too difficult to haul in concrete blocks and the things needed to make mortar and concrete, would be to use Earth Bag construction, in a similar manner.

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-28-2017, 04:38 PM
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Much is going to depend upon what type of SHTF situation you are talking about.

Sheltering inland from a hurricane, or weathering a particularly nasty spell of weather elsewhere, everything in the original post is great.
Might want to add some entertainment for you and yours.

We start talking full out grid down shtf, then we start talking about seeds, gardening tools and such. But I'd bet that most situations could be covered by a case of spaghettios and stew.

I'd hesitate to leave a bunch of gear there above the basics unless someone were there regularly. Thieves are everywhere.


Caching on location and what? That's up to you.
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:45 AM
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I have often thought about buying a small amount of acreage of remote farm land that is partially wooded with water and an old barn. Using the barn for cover, partially dig out the inside of the structure to create a "basement" bunker in which to store all of the cache of tools, equipment and food. Include an access door that could be buried or hidden by a work bench or and old tractor that won't run, ever, and you have a pretty good retreat location that combines "hide in plain sight" as well as a storage location for my RV in the off season.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:13 AM
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The Hick Method to evaluate a potential BOL Site.

1) You own it, or family owns it, or someone you trust with your life owns it.
2) You live there, or it is close enough that you can easily get there during a crisis.
3) You can secure it before, and defend during a crisis from trespass or armed intrusion.
4) It has some form of shelter and/or dry storage.
5) The soil, rainfall, and climate could support a garden.
6) A clean source of drinking water is golden.
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:33 PM
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You were spot on, mice and critters are typically a bigger issue than human theft in remote locations. We under estimated the eternal battle with them when we built our place.
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
The Hick Method to evaluate a potential BOL Site.

1) You own it, or family owns it, or someone you trust with your life owns it.
2) You live there, or it is close enough that you can easily get there during a crisis.
3) You can secure it before, and defend during a crisis from trespass or armed intrusion.
4) It has some form of shelter and/or dry storage.
5) The soil, rainfall, and climate could support a garden.
6is ) A clean source of drinking water is golden.
^ what he said!
| Adult supervision is important
| independent aspects super important
| being able to claim ownership.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:00 PM
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I don't think you can own land - you might not be able to pay the taxes which are as inevitable as death.

Shelter, water, food. I think hiding from FLIR will be important, geothermal places are high on my list.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavedweller View Post
...... being able to claim ownership.
The only ownership that matters in the wilderness is Possession. And the willingness to do what you have to do to retain possession. I have been down this road twice, and it was ugly and frightening both times, because in the Alaska wilderness you fly in, and are dropped off, and they come get you in an agreed point and time, there is zero law enforcement coming to help either party.

Both times I was able to hold possession of the cabin, one of those times I nearly got burned out. Both times involved holding people a gun point. In both cases I did not own the property or cabin, but I was but there by the stated owner of the cabins. Stuff in the wilderness is serious, your on your own, and sometimes staying alive requires doing hard and ugly things. In both cases I never truly discovered who owned the property/cabin, and it may have been in point of fact no-one owned it. I have learned the hard way the truth of the saying, "Possession is 9/10'th of the law". And in the Alaskan wilderness it is 100% of the law....or the hard reality of life and death. All of the above is true, unfortunately.

The wilderness has it's own stern code, and I have long figured that many who figure to bug out will encounter that code.

Last edited by 6.8SPC; 04-04-2017 at 11:41 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:16 PM
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The problem is, there's what you would expect to see, what you might see (lots of beady little eyes staring at you, then disappearing), and what you'd WANT to see. Especially after a long hard trip fleeing disaster, perhaps with little more than the clothes on your back, tired and really needing some sanctuary...


Cache of tools and repair materials. It is possible through natural or human means that the cabin will be damaged and perhaps uninhabitable. Boards, nails, plywood sheets, tarps, and the means to use them might be essential to make the cabin a refuge.

Can opener

A supply of firewood, cut, split, and stacked outside the cabin, in case the propane doesn't work. This assumes there's a fireplace or woodburning stove.

Matches.

Toilet paper, a very large and well stocked first aid kit, a sewing kit.

Candles and kerosene lamps, in case the flashlights don't work.

Pots and pans.

Solid locks on the doors and windows...
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemeyer007 View Post
I don't think you can own land -
You damn sure can. You can also own the ammo to defend it. You can lease the ammo at terrific speeds to people who don't think you own the land.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:41 PM
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The problem with getting farmland is you always have neighbors. You might think no one will know about digging out the basement bunker but someone will see you bringing in a skid loader / mini excavator to do the digging, or the trucks bringing in material . If they don't see that they will wander through and see your work in progress or that you have a pile of new dirt in the field or woods when you are not there. If you are going to hand dig it will take a long time and increase the chance of having visitors. You would have to have a great story to cover what you are doing because trying to do it in stealth mode WILL get the neighbors attention.

If the property is large enough that there is no direct view of your work site you might get away with it but the neighbors will know that the property has changed hands and there will always be a pair of eyes trying to get a view of the new owner. If you are friendly they will be at ease with you, if you tell them to keep off your land they will think you are an a***** and may try to rip you off or have a blind eye to others looking to rip you off.

Living in a remote area has a lot of advantages but if you were not born there you are a stranger and the locals will be wary of you.

When we bought the farm which is my BOL we rebuilt the house and replaced the barn using contractors that were not from that area. Space for our preps was built into our buildings as workshops or storage. We made friends with the neighbors who we let fish in our pond and use our trails in exchange for keeping an eye on the place when we weren't there. This has paid great dividends in that I just had a neighbor offer to lend me his $50,000 Cat bulldozer to help clear some woods.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.8SPC View Post
The only ownership that matters in the wilderness is Possession. And the willingness to do what you have to do to retain possession. I have been down this road twice, and it was ugly and frightening both times, because in the Alaska wilderness you fly in, and are dropped off, and they come get you in an agreed point and time, there is zero law enforcement coming to help either party.

Both times I was able to hold possession of the cabin, one of those times I nearly got burned out. Both times involved holding people a gun point. In both cases I did not own the property or cabin, but I was but there by the stated owner of the cabins. Stuff in the wilderness is serious, your on your own, and sometimes staying alive requires doing hard and ugly things. In both cases I never truly discovered who owned the property/cabin, and it may have been in point of fact no-one owned it. I have learned the hard way the truth of the saying, "Possession is 9/10'th of the law". And in the Alaskan wilderness it is 100% of the law....or the hard reality of life and death. All of the above is true, unfortunately.

The wilderness has it's own stern code, and I have long figured that many who figure to bug out will encounter that code.
I've not yet had to encounter this level of problem to the level you describe, but my wife and I did have to stare down an intruder at one of our cabins with my wife and I pointing AKs at a dude who kept wanting to approach our cabin. Our dog stayed up all night standing guard after this.
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Old 04-08-2017, 12:25 AM
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I learned overseas that it is smart to have 3 different ways to start a fire. By having 3 different ways, you have the option to choose which one to use when certain things work in your favor.

Let's say you have a magnifying glass. Most of us know how to use a magnifying glass to start a fire but what's nice about using one is that you use it on a bright, sunny day and you get to conserve any matches or butane lighters that you would normally use. So that means you have a match or lighter to use one more cloudy, cold day when the magnifying glass won't work. So don't think about having only one of anything. Think about having options, different options for all sorts of the same problems. Starting a fire is just one example of what I mean.

Let's talk about forming wood into the shapes that we need. How many of us could take a tree that we cut down and form boards? I'm talking about making your own boards to use for construction needs.

What I am getting at with this little thought is that an axe isn't the only wood cutting or shaping tool that you might want to cache at your logger site. You might want to store away saws, hammers, hatchets, axes and so on. Keep in mind that in a rural setting power tools may become useless unless you bring your own portable generator. For most people planning to survive in the cabin type setting, hand tools are what most of us would need to have stored away. The old hand drill and other such tools will prove invaluable when it comes to making things to sell, barter or repair things. Also remember two other things that go with these tools as well: lubricants and sharpeners.

By thinking far ahead of emergency situations, you can be living pretty nice when times take a turn for the worse. You won't be living a luxurious lifestyle but you'll be a whole lot better off than most other people in your area.
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Old 04-09-2017, 01:08 AM
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In my mind, if you do not own it lock, stock, and barrel, yourself then it is NOT viable as a BOL. It is too vulnerable in too many ways.

If anyone else owns the land, you risk having a falling out with them before or after the event and being cut off from access to the BOL you put work into. Does not matter if they are family or what. I have seen it happen.

If you own a mortgage on it, you risk that all sorts of economics could come into play (including the event requiring you to need a BOL) that could lead to government or bank seizure just before or as you need it most.

Not to mention that the right of possession is a lot easier to defend to anyone who comes along when you have established rights. I mean, in ever single bug out scenario, it is not going to be a WROL situation immediately or even forever.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:25 AM
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