Using a gun for self-protection against others with guns - Page 2 - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

General Discussion Anything non-survival related - news and information, current events, general chit-chat stuff.

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Liam Neeson: Number of guns in U.S. 'a disgrace'; guns in 'Taken 3' okay pamike777 Firearms General Discussion 69 12-25-2016 01:43 PM
Just some ramblings on cheap guns vs elite guns Cougar8000 Firearms General Discussion 100 05-04-2016 08:44 PM
Machine Guns for Country Cops ? 161 Federal Guns for 31 Officers AllOutdoor.com AllOutdoor.com 3 07-29-2015 12:29 PM
Be prepared: Wall Street advisor recommends guns, ammo for protection in collapse dpetty121263 Financial Forum 40 03-05-2015 07:33 PM
The Filmography of Guns Documents Iconic Guns in Popular Culture AllOutdoor.com AllOutdoor.com 0 09-04-2014 04:00 PM
School officials deeply troubled over guns appearing ON SIGNS BANNING GUNS MIL-DOT Firearms General Discussion 24 02-07-2014 01:24 PM
I Don't Believe In Guns! My Savior Provides Protection East Coast Woods Religious Discussion 99 02-05-2013 04:21 PM
Twice as many favor more guns over banning guns to reduce crime KeS Firearms General Discussion 1 01-19-2013 01:22 AM
Home Protection Guns gregdpowell Firearms General Discussion 27 02-26-2011 11:53 AM
ATF W Trageting BB Guns and Soft Pellet Guns Standingbear777 Firearms General Discussion 3 03-01-2010 07:17 PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-13-2015, 08:33 PM
Runamok's Avatar
Runamok Runamok is offline
Don't be dumb
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 7,233
Thanks: 23,065
Thanked 13,677 Times in 4,814 Posts
Default



Advertise Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by soapy123 View Post
Hi:

We keep seeing stories about people coming into places and shooting.

What would anyone suggest about this: I carry concealed (have a CHL) and a crazy person starts shooting? I will use my gun for protection, but when the cops come they might start shooting at ME! This could be just as dangerous as shooting against the original shooter.

Frightened people in a crowd only see someone shooting and in these situations the fear is so bad that no one can remember what they really saw, except that people were getting shot.
The situation will be over long before the cops get there (unless they are literally around the corner or in the building). I'm only carrying to protect myself and loved ones. If others are too lazy to protect themselves then, too bad.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Runamok For This Useful Post:
Old 12-13-2015, 11:51 PM
Resto's Avatar
Resto Resto is offline
Any Time, Any Place
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,909
Thanks: 3,447
Thanked 2,405 Times in 1,045 Posts
Default

Ill just say, Get some "Active Shooter Training", I recommend Gunsite in Arizona. BTDT. If you don't, you will probably only survive an armed confict by pure luck. If you do survive youre probably gonna be PTSD. Then you might relive that in your dreams for years, in dreams things can happen different. Remember you took a Human life, trust me that ****s with your head. I know what Im trained to do, but Im no instructor. Their guns are out, you have to draw and your moves will get their attention. You will probably get shot, don't worry though, its just a Contusion, they probably wont keep you in the Hospital over night, If youre lucky. You will probably be arrested, so you should have a criminal Atty on retainer and a Civil Atty also cause you could be sued by the Families of the Guys you shot or anybody just standing around.. If you are arrested SHUT YOUR ****ING MOUTH UNTIL YOUR LAWYER ARRIVES! LEOs are not on your side trust me. In court they will recall any and all off handed comments you make just to get a conviction. Now take a good look at the people in your community, think you can get an impartial jury out of them? I live in Arizona so my odds are good. God help you if anybody you send to Allah is Islamic or a Minority,because the Fed will get involved, then your life is over. Gunsite teaches unless your life or the lives of others are in "EMINENT" danger, BE A GOOD WITNESS. Just because some Jackwad points a gun at a store clerk and demands money doesn't mean squat. Don't be a Cowboy. Pray to God you are never involved in an Active shooter incident. Good Luck
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Resto For This Useful Post:
Old 12-14-2015, 02:45 PM
querulous's Avatar
querulous querulous is offline
Threepin'
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 3,762
Thanks: 9,726
Thanked 6,792 Times in 2,165 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soapy123 View Post
Hi:

We keep seeing stories about people coming into places and shooting.

What would anyone suggest about this: I carry concealed (have a CHL) and a crazy person starts shooting? I will use my gun for protection, but when the cops come they might start shooting at ME! This could be just as dangerous as shooting against the original shooter.

Frightened people in a crowd only see someone shooting and in these situations the fear is so bad that no one can remember what they really saw, except that people were getting shot.
You can either react or die. The police often don't enter the premises until everyone's mostly dead. Be sure to have your gun holstered when it's over to minimize the risk of police mistaking you for the shooter.

A Muzzy comes in to a room I am in and starts shooting, I won't hesitate to shoot back just because police, who aren't even there yet, *might* mistake me for the shooter.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to querulous For This Useful Post:
Old 12-14-2015, 02:57 PM
querulous's Avatar
querulous querulous is offline
Threepin'
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 3,762
Thanks: 9,726
Thanked 6,792 Times in 2,165 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resto View Post
Ill just say, Get some "Active Shooter Training", I recommend Gunsite in Arizona. BTDT. If you don't, you will probably only survive an armed confict by pure luck. If you do survive youre probably gonna be PTSD. Then you might relive that in your dreams for years, in dreams things can happen different. Remember you took a Human life, trust me that ****s with your head. I know what Im trained to do, but Im no instructor. Their guns are out, you have to draw and your moves will get their attention. You will probably get shot, don't worry though, its just a Contusion, they probably wont keep you in the Hospital over night, If youre lucky. You will probably be arrested, so you should have a criminal Atty on retainer and a Civil Atty also cause you could be sued by the Families of the Guys you shot or anybody just standing around.. If you are arrested SHUT YOUR ****ING MOUTH UNTIL YOUR LAWYER ARRIVES! LEOs are not on your side trust me. In court they will recall any and all off handed comments you make just to get a conviction. Now take a good look at the people in your community, think you can get an impartial jury out of them? I live in Arizona so my odds are good. God help you if anybody you send to Allah is Islamic or a Minority,because the Fed will get involved, then your life is over. Gunsite teaches unless your life or the lives of others are in "EMINENT" danger, BE A GOOD WITNESS. Just because some Jackwad points a gun at a store clerk and demands money doesn't mean squat. Don't be a Cowboy. Pray to God you are never involved in an Active shooter incident. Good Luck
"Imminent danger." If a jihadi comes into an establishment I am in with an AK47, he isn't there to talk about his feelings. Once that first bullet flies and he is targeting people, your life is now in danger.

There is a difference between using your CCW in an actual active shooter incident (always justified) and a robbery that doesn't necessarily put your life in danger.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to querulous For This Useful Post:
Old 12-14-2015, 03:04 PM
40cal's Avatar
40cal 40cal is offline
Somewhere on a ranch...
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The greatest country in the world... Texas
Posts: 1,944
Thanks: 1,834
Thanked 5,114 Times in 1,411 Posts
Default

Shoot until the threat is neutralized, then put the gun away.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 40cal For This Useful Post:
Old 12-14-2015, 03:23 PM
Tdog02 Tdog02 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: State of disbelief
Posts: 1,026
Thanks: 4,624
Thanked 1,809 Times in 663 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willthrill81 View Post
But many people in gunfights have said "I wish I had a gun" when they left their too-large-to-easily-carry handgun at home.

The gun you carry is infinitely better than the gun left at home.

If you can easily carry a .45, then go for it. Most of us cannot.

And while many people love to talk about the pocket sized 9mm handguns and slightly larger .40 calibers, the known problem with the small versions of these guns is that in a rapid fire scenario (i.e. self-defense), the recoil is so brutal that it's very hard to stay on target for consecutive shots. Would you rather have 5 accurate shots from a .380 or 5 semi- or in-accurate shots from a 9mm? It's not an easy answer either way.

Going to a range and spending 10 seconds aiming each shot, while using both hands, shooting a target 30 yards away is not realistic, going by the majority of self-defense encounters (i.e. rapid fire, single handed, target ~10 feet away).

Agreed, btw I usually carry 38 spl or 380 for a walk around concealed gun. I look for a good grip, good sights, and reliability as all the number one before I really worry about caliber. The micro guns are just a stone witch to get off an aimed follow-up shot, for me. I really refuse to carry full size handguns for CCW.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Tdog02 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-14-2015, 04:16 PM
Runamok's Avatar
Runamok Runamok is offline
Don't be dumb
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 7,233
Thanks: 23,065
Thanked 13,677 Times in 4,814 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdog02 View Post
Agreed, btw I usually carry 38 spl or 380 for a walk around concealed gun. I look for a good grip, good sights, and reliability as all the number one before I really worry about caliber. The micro guns are just a stone witch to get off an aimed follow-up shot, for me. I really refuse to carry full size handguns for CCW.
Why?

Better sight radius and higher capacity are two HUGE things you can do to get more hits on the target. Not to mention more mass on the front end helps with muzzle jump during recoil as well.
Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2015, 04:28 PM
canman's Avatar
canman canman is offline
III
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,254
Thanks: 3,182
Thanked 2,486 Times in 792 Posts
Default

First things first take the bad guy ('s) out. Then worry about the next thing. It is a gunfight hell you might loose and then there is no need to worry about what's next or anything else for that matter.
Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2015, 05:00 PM
NCalHippie's Avatar
NCalHippie NCalHippie is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 13,385
Thanks: 27,974
Thanked 23,339 Times in 9,117 Posts
Default

I would be more concerned that another person carrying concealed, might mistake me for a BG, although I would still do what I could to take out the active shooters if at all possible.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to NCalHippie For This Useful Post:
Old 12-14-2015, 05:09 PM
Tdog02 Tdog02 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: State of disbelief
Posts: 1,026
Thanks: 4,624
Thanked 1,809 Times in 663 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runamok View Post
Why?



Better sight radius and higher capacity are two HUGE things you can do to get more hits on the target. Not to mention more mass on the front end helps with muzzle jump during recoil as well.

Too much for concealed carry (full size) in my opinion. If I knew I was getting into a gun fight I would bring a rifle.
Seriously, CCW is a trade off that one has to be willing to accept. Each person has their own threshold for a carry piece. Somethings I won't do, others I will. But I think a couple of extra mags on a gun with good grips and sights that is 100% reliable is paramount. After that I start looking at the best piece to conceal.
I also practice situational awareness and risk management tactics to lessen my need to use a weapon. When or if it does happen, I know what I can do with what I carry.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tdog02 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-14-2015, 06:44 PM
Viper6Niner's Avatar
Viper6Niner Viper6Niner is offline
Remove Kebab
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Western WA
Posts: 3,591
Thanks: 2,169
Thanked 9,067 Times in 2,546 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCalHippie View Post
I would be more concerned that another person carrying concealed, might mistake me for a BG, although I would still do what I could to take out the active shooters if at all possible.
Based on the locations these shootings take place, that's unlikely. It's actually unlikely most of us will be armed in one.
Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2015, 08:20 PM
willthrill81 willthrill81 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Northwest
Posts: 3,991
Thanks: 10,013
Thanked 6,948 Times in 2,411 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runamok View Post
Why?

Better sight radius and higher capacity are two HUGE things you can do to get more hits on the target. Not to mention more mass on the front end helps with muzzle jump during recoil as well.
Ask a cop who has carried around a full-sized handgun on his hip for years how he likes it. From what I've heard, the majority of retired cops have some kinds of hip or back trouble (granted, they're carrying more than just a handgun, but it's the heaviest item by far).

If you can comfortably carry a .45 in a concealed way, then go for it. But most people can do neither unless they're wearing a parka.

And if you're carry a smaller handgun, you must be certain that you can rapidly and accurately shoot it with one hand at a fairly close target. IMHO, accuracy trumps caliber.
Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2015, 08:42 PM
busykngt's Avatar
busykngt busykngt is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Big D (Baja Oklahoma)
Posts: 398
Thanks: 169
Thanked 529 Times in 234 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper6Niner View Post
Based on the locations these shootings take place, that's unlikely. It's actually unlikely most of us will be armed in one.

Agreed; kind of brings into focus the whole "gun free zone" (school or other crowded sport or music venues, etc.) in which guns are not permitted by the general public. Which is yet another reason I have for avoiding large crowded venues whenever possible as I first mentioned in this thread. So as far as the OP's original comment, it appears: yous pays your money and yous take your chances (IF it's a big crowded event ya just can't pass up).
Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2015, 09:07 PM
Runamok's Avatar
Runamok Runamok is offline
Don't be dumb
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 7,233
Thanks: 23,065
Thanked 13,677 Times in 4,814 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willthrill81 View Post
Ask a cop who has carried around a full-sized handgun on his hip for years how he likes it. From what I've heard, the majority of retired cops have some kinds of hip or back trouble (granted, they're carrying more than just a handgun, but it's the heaviest item by far).

If you can comfortably carry a .45 in a concealed way, then go for it. But most people can do neither unless they're wearing a parka.

And if you're carry a smaller handgun, you must be certain that you can rapidly and accurately shoot it with one hand at a fairly close target. IMHO, accuracy trumps caliber.
Not a dig on our brothers in blue bu most of their issues stem from what hangs out in front of them (belly) and that they spend most of their days sitting in a patrol car (a terrible ergonomic situation). Just saying. Now, if they were doing the old-school walking patrols every day I would say you have a valid point as that may throw off your normal gait. However, most cops now carry some variation of polymer framed pistols that are much lighter than the old .38 revolvers.

I only asked the question as anyone who can wear a sweatshirt should be able to conceal any handgun they want. Also, the gentleman who I asked the question of responded that he carried spare mags as well. My full size 9mm (CZ-75B) carries twice the rounds of my subcompact option (Sig P290RS). Extra mags also create bulges. Now, in the summertime I usually carry the Sig at the appendix position just out of convenience. If I'm going to a terrorists target like a mall, I'm carrying the CZ with a loose t-shirt. Even my wife, who knows I carry A LOT, doesn't know what I am carrying unless she hugs me. That's going to pass 99.9% of people's detection. I'm just a regular 6'1" 200lb dude. We give most people far too much credit for what they can see on us. I actively look for people carrying when I'm out and have only spotted a few in the 4 years I've been carrying.

To each their own. I always like hearing how people do it as maybe I can learn something. As long as they are responsibly carrying something more than their fists it's all good.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Runamok For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2015, 11:02 AM
HandLoad's Avatar
HandLoad HandLoad is offline
Ephemerally here
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Great NorthBest
Posts: 6,875
Thanks: 11,348
Thanked 12,911 Times in 4,739 Posts
Default

Wife and I are Both Mid-60s. We each have Decided that if a Shooter begins His/Her Destruction Shooting in Our Presence, we will Take Him/Her on. We are Living our "Bonus Days". We are still in Good Enough Shape to Respond. At Worst, We will be the Focus of the Goblins' Shooting for a few Seconds, thus allowing Young Fathers and Mothers to scurry to safety. Both of us are pretty good shots, Her with her .357, and Me with My .45 (Sig P220 - Full-Size).

Whether or not We Survive, It is Likely that We will be exonerated by Forensics, as Few "Active Shooters" shoot those calibers for a Terroristic attack.

We would rather go out Shooting than just allowing innocents to be killed. We do not want to be present at such an event. But, should such come to pass where we are, we will not shrink from a Duty We perceive. Brave Folks Faced and Fought Evil in order for us to have a Great Life. We are willing to "Pay It Forward". YMMV
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to HandLoad For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
concealed carry, self-preservation



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net