Farmers going broke - Page 3 - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Farming, Gardening & Homesteading Country lifestyle, homesteading, blacksmithing and living off the grid.

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-29-2019, 10:11 AM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Militant Normal
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Western West Virginia
Posts: 10,411
Thanks: 3,412
Thanked 22,829 Times in 7,534 Posts
Default



Advertise Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by T22 View Post
Or grow grass fed cattles.
Exactly what most small farmers in my AO do. Land is much too steep for row crops. It can give decent hay if properly cared for, and cows aren't put off by it. They are actually pretty good at climbing steep slopes. Farmer who uses my barn and pasture runs about 200 head. But most have anywhere from two or three dozen on down. At the low end it's blue collar guys supplementing their income. (No rich hobby farmers here.)

Then there's the family raising llamas.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 10:17 AM
n1d's Avatar
n1d n1d is offline
ǝnƃoɹ ǝuoƃ
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Galtís Gulch
Posts: 8,576
Thanks: 56,823
Thanked 24,910 Times in 7,278 Posts
Default CAW!

Define your opinion of what a "serious subsistence gardener" is.

Back in my younger daze the lady of the house tended to the garden after the man of the house prepped the "house garden" with his big green tractor.

williammandella may be a flaming lib, butt, he is absolutely correct in that post.

Just guessing, butt wanna bet he prolly can raise a mator' oar three tew boot?

as always ymmv of course

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
I hope some serious subsistence gardener will chime in here and explain how labor-intensive it is. The reason so few commercial farmers don't is simple: ROI. Same reason miners and insurance salesmen don't keep gardens. Their labor is worth a lot more when applied to their primary profession.

And farmers no longer breed large families, which was largely done for the labor the kids could provide. Labor laws have made it all but impossible for farm kids to actually work on the farm until they're sixteen or even eighteen years old. Time was when a healthy twelve-year-old would be driving that Ford 9N, plowing, harrowing, seeding, mowing hay, hauling water and fodder to animals, hauling in firewood...... Or he might be out with his own Stevens Crackshot, harvesting a rabbit or a few squirrels for dinner. (Phoebe Ann Mosey was doing that at age six. You know her as Annie Oakley.) Can't do any of that today without bringing social services down on you.

Last edited by n1d; 12-29-2019 at 03:05 PM.. Reason: Too **** off palmofthetoe mayhaps
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to n1d For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 10:56 AM
ebjr1967 ebjr1967 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,679
Thanks: 3,975
Thanked 3,006 Times in 1,115 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n1d View Post
Define your opinion of what a "serious subsistence gardener" is.

Back in my younger daze the lady of the house tended to the garden after the man of the house prepped the "house garden" with his big green tractor.

williammandella may be a flaming lib, butt, he is absolutely correct in that post.

Jut guessing, butt wanna bet he prolly can raise a mator' oar three tew boot?

as always ymmv of course
One thing I do know is that you won't find them perusing message boards and discussing, like we do. They just do it.

Quote:
williammandella may be a flaming lib, butt, he is absolutely correct in that post.
I saw what you did there, lol.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ebjr1967 For This Useful Post:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-29-2019, 11:12 AM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Militant Normal
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Western West Virginia
Posts: 10,411
Thanks: 3,412
Thanked 22,829 Times in 7,534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n1d View Post
Define your opinion of what a "serious subsistence gardener" is.

Back in my younger daze the lady of the house tended to the garden after the man of the house prepped the "house garden" with his big green tractor.

williammandella may be a flaming lib, butt, he is absolutely correct in that post.

Jut guessing, butt wanna bet he prolly can raise a mator' oar three tew boot?

as always ymmv of course
Read the Paul Conklin book. He lived it and studied it all as a historian, from the first years of the Great Depression right up into the 21st. century. I can't begin to summarize it all without creating the "wall-of-text" posts that I hate. He covers in considerable detail why farmers moved from "do-it-all" farming to focusing on the cash crops alone. Bottom line: Diversifying from the money crops is an expensive luxury that small farmers can't afford, and the big corporate farmers who can afford it can't justify.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 11:14 AM
n1d's Avatar
n1d n1d is offline
ǝnƃoɹ ǝuoƃ
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Galtís Gulch
Posts: 8,576
Thanks: 56,823
Thanked 24,910 Times in 7,278 Posts
Default CAW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebjr1967 View Post
One thing I do know is that you won't find them perusing message boards and discussing, like we do. They just do it.



I saw what you did there, lol.
......


You might bee' surprised as to how much computer time a family farmer spends on line these days......
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to n1d For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 11:23 AM
n1d's Avatar
n1d n1d is offline
ǝnƃoɹ ǝuoƃ
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Galtís Gulch
Posts: 8,576
Thanks: 56,823
Thanked 24,910 Times in 7,278 Posts
Default CAW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
Read the Paul Conklin book. He lived it and studied it all as a historian, from the first years of the Great Depression right up into the 21st, century. I can't begin to summarize without creating the "wall-of-text" posts that I hate. He covers in considerable detail why farmers moved from "do-it-all" farming to focusing on the cash crops alone.
Awe come on now pops. Please tell us what you consider "a serious subsistence gardener" is.
Shouldn't take a wall of text to do it either.

I don't care or take much stock in and about "read opinions" tbh.

My definition of "a serious subsistence gardener" isn't by default a "farmer"...

IMO your mixing peas and carrots.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to n1d For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 05:26 PM
IceFire's Avatar
IceFire IceFire is offline
I have control issues
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southeast AZ
Posts: 5,328
Thanks: 6,681
Thanked 7,953 Times in 3,158 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Gardening Post or Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
I hope some serious subsistence gardener will chime in here and explain how labor-intensive it is. The reason so few commercial farmers don't is simple: ROI. Same reason miners and insurance salesmen don't keep gardens. Their labor is worth a lot more when applied to their primary profession...
Yes, it IS labor intensive, especially in the early phases, when you are weeding the area to be planted, building the beds (especially if you are creating permanent raised beds), weeding, establishing your irrigation system, weeding, did I mention WEEDING?! That part is never-ending (unless, of course, you are using toxic chemical weedkillers, which I refuse to do.)

The orchard, is also a long-term project - weeding, setting up the irrigation, weeding, planting the trees, weeding, and then having to wait (and weed) for several years before the trees actually start to bear fruit, and it will be a few more years after that before you actually get a decent yield from said trees.

However, intensive labor and time factor aside, I feel it is important to HAVE those resources in place. Several benefits to this are:

Not having to purchase your food.
Knowing where your food comes from, and what has/hasn't been used on it.
You have CONTROL over what is in/on your food!
Doing the gardening/weeding is good exercise! I don't do CrossFit, I do FarmFit!

Speaking of, I need to go feed the animals, milk the goat, and gather the eggs!

Catch y'all later!
Quick reply to this message
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to IceFire For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 06:37 PM
ebjr1967 ebjr1967 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,679
Thanks: 3,975
Thanked 3,006 Times in 1,115 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n1d View Post
......


You might bee' surprised as to how much computer time a family farmer spends on line these days......
Nah, you gotta do something while moving the corn from the combine to the semi.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ebjr1967 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 06:49 PM
Elvin Moseid Elvin Moseid is online now
Trapper
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 965
Thanks: 722
Thanked 1,655 Times in 617 Posts
Default

They should scale down and go for permaculture diversity for cash crops, and become self sufficient again.
Of course that would mean a downsizing in living standard as well, but thats only good..
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Elvin Moseid For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 07:13 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Militant Normal
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Western West Virginia
Posts: 10,411
Thanks: 3,412
Thanked 22,829 Times in 7,534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n1d View Post
......
You might bee' surprised as to how much computer time a family farmer spends on line these days......
And it's for work. Weather. Market-watching. Research. Buying stuff online that you'd pop over to Walmart or Lowes for. (I'm in the "densely populated" East, but it's an hour each way to get to a Walmart. Or a Lowes for that matter.)

Farmers all know McMaster Carr, for every conceivable item you could need to maintain a farm except tractor and implement parts. Stuff that no hardware stores carry. (There's other sites where I buy tractor parts. I see brown trucks and white ones in my yard at least once a week )

Not so much playing online video games or obsessively following Facesucker.

And YOU might be surprised how many farmers have NO internet, or are still on dialup, unless they do as I did and spring for satellite.

--------------

Weeding. It takes several acres of vegetables and corn to feed a small family all year. All that has to be weeded. Over and over. My Dad gardened about half an acre in the 1950s. I spent whole Saturdays weeding just that. Boring as he11, aside from hot and dirty.

---------------------

Criminy, these dazzling urbanites haven't a clue. And they won't read, either.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 07:14 PM
ebjr1967 ebjr1967 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,679
Thanks: 3,975
Thanked 3,006 Times in 1,115 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvin Moseid View Post
They should scale down and go for permaculture diversity for cash crops, and become self sufficient again.
Of course that would mean a downsizing in living standard as well, but thats only good..
While I may agree with you, how can we expect "Braxton" and "Aella" to create their very own Eden? Do we leave them behind? Maybe.

I also do not care for the label permaculture, though I have been practicing it in one form or another since the 70s. In that time I have learned that nothing is permanent.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ebjr1967 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 07:16 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Militant Normal
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Western West Virginia
Posts: 10,411
Thanks: 3,412
Thanked 22,829 Times in 7,534 Posts
Default

One wry little tidbit from a farmer friend, about why he'd never be a dairyman:

"The longest vacation you can take is six hours."
Quick reply to this message
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 07:18 PM
ebjr1967 ebjr1967 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,679
Thanks: 3,975
Thanked 3,006 Times in 1,115 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
And it's for work. Weather. Market-watching. Research. Buying stuff online that you'd pop over to Walmart or Lowes for. (I'm in the "densely populated" East, but it's an hour each way to get to a Walmart. Or a Lowes for that matter.)

Farmers all know McMaster Carr, for every conceivable item you could need to maintain a farm except tractor and implement parts. Stuff that no hardware stores carry. (There's other sites where I buy tractor parts. I see brown trucks and white ones in my yard at least once a week )

Not so much playing online video games or obsessively following Facesucker.

And YOU might be surprised how many farmers have NO internet, or are still on dialup, unless they do as I did and spring for satellite.

--------------

Weeding. It takes several acres of vegetables and corn to feed a small family all year. All that has to be weeded. Over and over. My Dad gardened about half an acre in the 1950s. I spent whole Saturdays weeding just that. Boring as he11, aside from hot and dirty.

---------------------

Criminy, these dazzling urbanites haven't a clue.
Count yourself lucky if you only spent Saturdays weeding your dad's garden.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ebjr1967 For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 07:29 PM
n1d's Avatar
n1d n1d is offline
ǝnƃoɹ ǝuoƃ
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Galtís Gulch
Posts: 8,576
Thanks: 56,823
Thanked 24,910 Times in 7,278 Posts
Default CAW!

Oh my!

Just how do you manage to manage to bee' a subsistence gardener and read books with all that hard work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
And it's for work. Weather. Market-watching. Research. Buying stuff online that you'd pop over to Walmart or Lowes for. (I'm in the "densely populated" East, but it's an hour each way to get to a Walmart. Or a Lowes for that matter.)

Farmers all know McMaster Carr, for every conceivable item you could need to maintain a farm except tractor and implement parts. Stuff that no hardware stores carry. (There's other sites where I buy tractor parts. I see brown trucks and white ones in my yard at least once a week )

Not so much playing online video games or obsessively following Facesucker.

And YOU might be surprised how many farmers have NO internet, or are still on dialup, unless they do as I did and spring for satellite.

--------------

Weeding. It takes several acres of vegetables and corn to feed a small family all year. All that has to be weeded. Over and over. My Dad gardened about half an acre in the 1950s. I spent whole Saturdays weeding just that. Boring as he11, aside from hot and dirty.

---------------------

Criminy, these dazzling urbanites haven't a clue. And they won't read, either.

Last edited by n1d; 12-29-2019 at 07:31 PM.. Reason: hi ya palm et' oh
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to n1d For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 07:36 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Militant Normal
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Western West Virginia
Posts: 10,411
Thanks: 3,412
Thanked 22,829 Times in 7,534 Posts
Default

Orchards. I did that too. Pruning. Mowing with an old Gravely. Spraying twice or three times a year. Picking the apples from ladders or using a long pole with a wire basket on the end. Or both.

Beekeeping.

Cleaning out the henhouse. Dad's flock ran to about sixty. The manure had to be composted for a least a year, but our pile was so large that it usually got five.

Mucking out the horse stall. (Uncle on the place kept a riding horse, which he never rode that I ever saw. Nor did he ever clean the stall himself. He eventually sold it when he moved away. I was thrilled.)

And Dad wasn't a real farmer. He had a full-time career as a mechanical engineer. He'd inherited all this from HIS father, and couldn't bear to let it all go, I guess.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 07:38 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Militant Normal
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Western West Virginia
Posts: 10,411
Thanks: 3,412
Thanked 22,829 Times in 7,534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebjr1967 View Post
Count yourself lucky if you only spent Saturdays weeding your dad's garden.
Oh, how right you are !
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 08:12 PM
Southback Southback is offline
I love this forum
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 41
Thanks: 2
Thanked 81 Times in 32 Posts
Default

I grew some squash as a kid. I will save mankind!
Quick reply to this message
Old 12-29-2019, 08:19 PM
Elvin Moseid Elvin Moseid is online now
Trapper
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 965
Thanks: 722
Thanked 1,655 Times in 617 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southback View Post
I grew some squash as a kid. I will save mankind!
I got some goats. I will save myself and my family, so then I'll leave mankind to you and ypur squash..
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Elvin Moseid For This Useful Post:
Old 12-29-2019, 08:24 PM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
Militant Normal
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Western West Virginia
Posts: 10,411
Thanks: 3,412
Thanked 22,829 Times in 7,534 Posts
Default

Advocates say the "Three Sisters" doesn't need weeding. But it's a neat trick to plant the beans late enough that the corn has grown tall enough for them to climb, and plant the squash timed so it doesn't shade out the beans. Three seasons, and I never got it right. Got a heckuva a lot of acorn squash, though.

Didja know you can grow acorn squash on a trellis? Another way to beat weeding.

The Amish in my area use miles of landscape fabric to keep weeds down.

I never got a decent crop of cabbage. Cabbage worm got 'em all.

A very old English ditty goes:

One for the rabbit,
One for the mouse,
One for the blackbird,
One for the house
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to The Old Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 02-10-2020, 03:04 PM
Kymudder08's Avatar
Kymudder08 Kymudder08 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: 270 ky
Posts: 1,262
Thanks: 258
Thanked 669 Times in 403 Posts
Default

I know what you mean about farmers always complaining about how bad they have it. My uncle would always grip about grain prices and the weather or how they donít know how theyíre gonna get by. Fast forward to 2 years ago, he retired/sold out to his other brothers for ~$4million

Quote:
Originally Posted by williammandella View Post
How does "crop prices are low" turn into "I'm too lazy to put in a kitchen garden?" One doesn't prevent or cause the other. Just another example of a farmer complaining about how difficult it is to be a farmer. I've never met a farmer who said he'd had a good year. Compare the average farmer today with what they looked like fifty years ago. Nowadays, if a farmer doesn't have a bushel belly and a 60" inch waist, most likely he's lying about being a farmer.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Kymudder08 For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net