Sniper Rifle ? - Page 3 - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rethinking SHTF Rifle And Ammunition Stockpile kev Military Weapons Forum 147 02-11-2019 08:42 AM
SHTF Reload Questions Potawami II Firearms General Discussion 49 05-16-2018 10:46 AM
.22 Rifle Choice for Survival Arkangel1200 Firearms General Discussion 76 03-25-2018 03:53 PM
Pellet Rifle Myths. nomadshooter Firearms General Discussion 14 12-25-2017 01:55 PM
Russian SVT 40 7.62x45r Semi Auto Rifle (Used) Cope's Distribuitng Cope's Distributing 0 06-05-2017 08:50 AM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-16-2018, 12:50 AM
One&Done One&Done is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 64
Thanks: 21
Thanked 135 Times in 53 Posts
Default



Advertise Here

How high is "up?"

Let's get a handle on your abilities/skill set, "what's in your wallet?" Availability of ammo, and the quality of your weapon(s). Daylight and/or night fighting abilities?

The greater your ability/skill set, the greater potentials available to your selection. Otherwise, dollars may not connote one who is/maybe a force multiplier, in a SHTF situation... Owning a "sniper rifle" does not necessarily make one a sniper...

If you don't have the skills, and/or the experience, save your money, and make yourself into a good infantryman, able to snoop and poop, shoot-move-communicate, within your MAG or family group... Experience is gained by staying alive, and learning from what you, or others, do... Better by far, to learn from the errors of others...

Be realistic in your evaluations of your abilities, "warrior" attitude and spirit, with your level of determination to protect self, family, and community. If not willing to die for what you believe in, do whatever you can for your community- even if it's maintaining the privies... Become, and stay, useful, allowing others to be the guardians, the warriors...

One&Done
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to One&Done For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 01:07 AM
sarco2000's Avatar
sarco2000 sarco2000 is offline
If I had a voice I'd sing
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beyond the Grid, in Montana
Age: 53
Posts: 7,134
Thanks: 14,569
Thanked 22,425 Times in 5,585 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logit View Post
So many good suggestions. Thank you to all.

Question : And I really hate to sound ignorant on this subject (ok ... I am) ... will a 22LR really take out some one with a head shot at 100 yards ?
Yes. Although your chances are better with a higher powered round. Will make up for a less-than-perfect shot.

And bears arent as tough as a lot of people (who've never shot one) think.

..........
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sarco2000 For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 01:52 AM
Aerindel's Avatar
Aerindel Aerindel is offline
Abnormality biased.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: MT.
Posts: 5,020
Thanks: 5,936
Thanked 11,661 Times in 3,812 Posts
Default

Quote:
will a 22LR really take out some one with a head shot at 100 yards ? A 22 cal doesn't seem capable of doing much except for varmint hunting and plinking.
Yup. Really.

Quote:
I envision the round embedding in the skull bone
A possibility, but also an incapacitating and likely fatal injury.

But I would never use a .22lr for defense by choice as there are so very many better options.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aerindel For This Useful Post:
 
Old 11-16-2018, 09:30 AM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: High country of Arizona
Posts: 5,770
Thanks: 1,504
Thanked 17,922 Times in 4,690 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logit View Post
Question : And I really hate to sound ignorant on this subject (ok ... I am) ... will a 22LR really take out some one with a head shot at 100 yards ? A 22 cal doesn't seem capable of doing much except for varmint hunting and plinking.
A .22LR damn near put my uncle in a grave. Instead, because the bullet passed through the spinal column, it succeeded in putting him in a wheel chair for 57 of his 69 years.

I am aware the weapon of choice by deer poachers during the youthful time of my life was a .22LR. Head shots at close range. Some of the good old boys in the area would brag about it. And some of them eventually were caught.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to AZ_HighCountry For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 09:32 AM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: High country of Arizona
Posts: 5,770
Thanks: 1,504
Thanked 17,922 Times in 4,690 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
But I would never use a .22lr for defense by choice as there are so very many better options.
True but if you have nothing else would you just toss it to the side and look for a rock or a 2x4?

Having had a family member nearly end up in a grave because of one I don't discount anything.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to AZ_HighCountry For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 09:49 AM
AK103K's Avatar
AK103K AK103K is offline
What?
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: In the shadow of the Shade.
Posts: 6,206
Thanks: 6,053
Thanked 10,117 Times in 4,153 Posts
Default

One advantage to the .22's is, you can practice a lot for less money. Most of the time anyway. Barring another panic.

They also can help you with learning to deal with the wind, etc, as they tend to be more affected by the environmental issues than the larger calibers. Those lessons still generally carry over though.

The downside to them is, ammo isnt always reliable. Its generally pretty accurate though,even the "cheap" stuff.

The right bullets can cause some pretty impressive damage. Put a "flat" on a simple RN bullet, and you end up with a pretty impressive round as well, that penetrates well, and does a good bit of damage, yet isnt "explosive". It would be my choice, as long as it was reliable in my gun.


I believe the main use of the 10-22 with the Israelis was crowd control. They generally werent/arent using them as a "lethal" weapon. They single the troublemakers out of the crowd and give them a non lethal shot, meant to "loudly" put them down, which tends to discourage the rest in the crowd, and helps break things up. It also "tags" the troublemakers.


Shepherd used to make a good BDC type scope for the .22LR that would allow good, repeatable shots on squirrel sized targets at 250 yards. Not something most would probably do, but if you have the money (they are salty) for the scope, probably wouldnt be a bad option. I had one of their scopes for a .308, and it worked as advertised. It, and the gun it was on, are one of the rare things I got rid of, that I wish I had back.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AK103K For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 10:09 AM
Jack Swilling's Avatar
Jack Swilling Jack Swilling is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 2,254
Thanks: 3,261
Thanked 5,174 Times in 1,634 Posts
Default

"I believe the main use of the 10-22 with the Israelis was crowd control. "

EXACTLY
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jack Swilling For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 10:10 AM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,854
Thanks: 2,365
Thanked 15,980 Times in 6,716 Posts
Default

A .22 can put a person in his grave but that does not make it a sniper rifle.

Depending on your shooting limitations something between .223 and .308 will do mister average just fine.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PalmettoTree For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 10:19 AM
AK103K's Avatar
AK103K AK103K is offline
What?
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: In the shadow of the Shade.
Posts: 6,206
Thanks: 6,053
Thanked 10,117 Times in 4,153 Posts
Default

Like anything can be an assault weapon, I look at it as anything can be a "sniping" tool.

Handgun, bow and arrow, whatever. Its all how you use it and in what capacity. You dont have to shoot hundreds of yards to "snipe".

I know, its not as sexy as a $3000, latest and greatest gun the military uses, but it is what it is.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AK103K For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 02:35 PM
ajole ajole is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,776
Thanks: 6,812
Thanked 19,364 Times in 6,255 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logit View Post
Question : And I really hate to sound ignorant on this subject (ok ... I am) ... will a 22LR really take out some one with a head shot at 100 yards ?

The problem is...it MIGHT penetrate....or it might not, depending on variables like hitting at a less than perpendicular angle to the bone.

If your headshot is in the eyeball...would that make it a kill shot?

Because if a guy will hold still for about 5 seconds, that can be arranged.

But again...ANY movement, or even a gust of wind, changes everything, and a .22 will be at a huge disadvantage compared to other large/heavier/faster bullets.

This is a $60 used Mark II Savage with a $50 BSA scope and Federal bulk ammo, at 100 yards. I zeroed the scope at 25, set up at 100, adjusted the scope for that range, took one shot, and this is what happened. Like I said...if he will just hold hold still...



But notice...it's NOT a sharp clean hole. This was standard velocity subsonic ammo, and it was slow enough at 100 that it looks like it tore the paper, rather than punching it. About 900 fps, and only 73 ft lbs of energy at that range. So...maybe not a good idea to shoot at someone at 100 yards with this ammo?

Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ajole For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 03:11 PM
sarco2000's Avatar
sarco2000 sarco2000 is offline
If I had a voice I'd sing
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beyond the Grid, in Montana
Age: 53
Posts: 7,134
Thanks: 14,569
Thanked 22,425 Times in 5,585 Posts
Default

Many of you have seen this video already, but the idea is that if a round can penetrate a 1" thick pine board, it's lethal to a human. I think that's the way the military defined it? But anyway, they prove that "A 22 will kill farther out than you can shoot it accurately".

However, if it's a glancing blow the victim will just end up with a bad headache, but that's why I said a higher powered round helps make up for a poor shot. A glancing blow in the head from a 5.56 has a much better chance of killing you!

My cousin was shot in the calf with a 22 while hunting (he never found out who fired it) and he limped out of the woods, in pain and ****ed off, but he fully recovered. So it wouldn't be my first choice for SNIPING but I'm not a sniper. And if I was, my AR308 or my Winchester 30-06 would do the job nicely.

Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sarco2000 For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 03:31 PM
Neo nimrod Neo nimrod is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North West Arkansas
Posts: 1,314
Thanks: 9,803
Thanked 1,342 Times in 794 Posts
Default

If you can put it in the eye, most likely. However, I worked in an ER department for several years and on man was brought in that had been shot between the eyes from 2 feet away..execution style.. and lived to testify against the shooter. The bullet split and blew out both sides of his eyebrows. Of course the belief at that time was the odds a person surviving such events was inversely related to a persons worth to society.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Neo nimrod For This Useful Post:
Old 11-16-2018, 11:01 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,854
Thanks: 2,365
Thanked 15,980 Times in 6,716 Posts
Default

Sniper rifle does not mean will it kill at sniper distance but can you make a kill shot at sniper distance. .22 lr is not a sniper rifle. If you cannot hit a man the first time any time then you are out of the sniper and sniper's rifle effective range. Shooter and rifle are one and the same neither is better than which ever is worst.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PalmettoTree For This Useful Post:
Old 11-18-2018, 10:50 AM
ColoradoMinuteMan ColoradoMinuteMan is online now
Originalist
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 872
Thanks: 282
Thanked 1,247 Times in 528 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logit View Post
What would be your recommendation for a "sniper rifle" ? Not a 50 cal. to hit a target 2 miles away ... just an ordinary / run of the mill rifle that could be used reliably for sniping. Also, what scope / other furniture would you suggest ?
We have no idea what your starting point is, but if you're starting without much rifleman experience a good first step would be starting with an Appleseed event if you own or can borrow an appropriate rifle.

Do you own a centerfire, bottlenecked cartridge rifle with a scope? If so, I'd determine the distance at which that cartridge transitions to subsonic, then spend your time training yourself to reliably shoot accurately out to 50 yards short of that distance.

If you don't have a rifle and you want to start on the cheap then get a Ruger American Synthetic in 6.5 Creedmoor, top it with a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16X44 FFP riflescope w/MRAD reticle and a sling; find an affordable BTHP cartridge that your rifle likes; find a ballistic calculator app you like (there are plenty of free ones online); learn about MRAD; learn about DOPE and develop one for your cartridge; learn all you can about shooting prone; find an outdoor range that you can shoot to at least 500 yards; collect new data on every shot you take including things like how did the rifle recoil and respond and how you can adjust your body so that the rifle goes nearly back on target after every shot; learn how to adjust for conditions using both the reticle and by dialing in your shot; train often so your previous session is fresh in your mind; train until you can reliably make accurate shots at distance under all conditions.

If you want, you can do the same thing with .223/5.56 as well using >55 grain BTHP projectiles.

When you've done all that, you'll know everything you need to know in order to purchase a rifle that will actually make a difference in how accurately you shoot.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ColoradoMinuteMan For This Useful Post:
Old 11-20-2018, 03:00 PM
Taxed2Death Taxed2Death is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 40
Thanks: 4
Thanked 77 Times in 30 Posts
Default

You've already gotten some great input from the first couple of replies, and you've gotten some others that are mixed in their value so, for what it's worth I'll throw my two cents in for consideration.

First, a .308 or 7.62x51 will start to go transonic at around 800-850yds, so shots beyond that become a little more iffy even if you do properly account for wind, altitude, temperature, humidity, etc. Under those ranges even a sporter rifle in this caliber will be good for a couple of shots, but not for a longer engagement where several shots are fired. There are going to be exceptions to this, but that has been the general rule in my experience. For prolonged shooting (not a good idea from a sniper's perspective BTW), a heavier barrel will typically be more stable. I personally prefer a Remington 700-based rifle for a precision rifle in standard calibers, but Savage and many others offer rifles that are highly accurate right out of the box.

For ranges in the 500yd class most of the high-velocity hunting calibers will suffice, but out past 800yds the "it depends" factor becomes more prevalent. Like, how much past 800yds? 1000yds? 1200yds? 1500yds? For extreme ranges I like the .338 Lapua, but rifles and ammo tend to be pricey, and my particular rifle is NOT a joy to lug around on foot. A 6.5 Creedmore or similar chambering will definitely get you past the 1000yd mark with enough oomph to take out a man-sized target, and will retain an impressive level of accuracy with the right weapon/ammo combo and can be had in a weapon that is in the 10-12lb range scoped and loaded. Heavy, but not too bad provided you are in decent shape. I am playing with a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 right now, and it is showing a lot of promise for a box-stock platform. I'm getting consistent head shots on pigs out at 800yds, and consistent shoulder shots well beyond that, but it is still in the break-in/tweaking stage, so I expect to see even better as time goes on. It is deadly with a headshot and with most shoulder shots to date, but I have had one or two big boars still run off after a solid hit when the projectile failed to penetrate their heavy cartilaginous shoulder sheath when the ranges were in the 1200yd arena. I've had various 300 magnums over the years and the performance on actual live critters has been about the same as with the 6.5, so I consider this about the maximum realistic range for "standard" chamberings. I would likely have fewer penetration issues on deer (which would replicate a human target with light clothing, unlike the pigs which are much thicker skinned), but I just don't want to risk losing a deer whereas pigs are a nuisance animal for me and don't garner the same consideration, so you may be able to extend the effective range a couple of hundred yards on softer targets.

The next question is to your personal skill level. I have decades of shooting at extended ranges and know my abilities and limitations as well as the abilities and limitations of my equipment. I keep these in mind when selecting my position, range, etc. for engaging my selected target. I practice a LOT and take notes on how different conditions impact the performance of my equipment. I know what a clean/cold bore will do versus a fouled one or one that has warmed up. I know what changes when the ambient temperature is 20degF compared to the same setup when it is 80degF outside. I know what happens if the humidity is 90% compared to 60%. I know what to compensate for if I am shooting at 6000ft elevation instead of at sea level. At extreme ranges even MINOR angle changes due to terrain will have a significant effect on your trajectory. To be able to successfully engage targets out beyond much more than 500yds, all of these factors begin to contribute to the equation at an exponential rate as distance increases. If you don't practice, and do so under a variety of conditions, you will not gain the experience needed to make reliable hits even on relatively large targets at extended ranges. You can learn a lot of the needed skills practicing with a 22lr at long-for-caliber ranges, but it is no substitute for the real deal. I do take my sons out regularly to play what we call "the sniper game", which entails shooting at "chi chi" birds (typically sparrows) at ranges of 200-300yds. One of us acts as the shooter, and one as the spotter. All of the considerations for shooting a centerfire at extended ranges are amplified at these ranges when using a 22lr and are good lesson platforms for both inexperienced and experienced shooters. It also helps develop the needed communication and cooperation skills that are essential to a "sniper team", and if you find yourself acting in the sniper role, you really do want to do it as a team if you can. Your team member can act not only as a spotter, but also as security among other roles. There are reasons why the military does this, and not many of us have the ability to emulate Carlos Hathcock and go the "lone wolf" route successfully.

Now, to the SHTF "engage" or "not engage" at long range question. Again, it depends. In my book, unless I absolutely HAVE to, if I have a 300yd head start I'm going to try to evade or disengage rather than engage. There absolutely may be scenarios where this does not apply, but by and large, short of actual warfare, I don't consider taking on an armed human target at ranges out past 300yds to be a "defensive" situation. Again, there most definitely may be exceptions to this but, having been there, it is NO fun putting yourself in a situation where you invite people to shoot back at you. If you do want to have the ability to do this, then not only is marksmanship important, but also fieldcraft. Anchoring yourself to a single location for more than a few shots is a recipe for bad things to happen, so you want to have the skills needed to quickly and discreetly relocate after a shot or two and reengage from a different location, or to disengage and evade.

One last thought...I would refrain from referring to your weapon as a "sniper rifle"...it tends to create unwanted perceptions. "Precision rifle" is my preferred term since it does not arouse misperceptions with the wrong folks, but the weapon systems required carry the same capability. Anyway, long range shooting is a lot of fun, and being proficient at it can afford you a lot of options in a SHTF scenario, so I do solidly encourage developing the skills to do it with confidence and competence. Americans have historically been a nation of riflemen, and this has served us well in the past in securing and preserving our freedom. Hopefully the need will never rise again, but complacency and the lack of preparedness has been the downfall of many a society, so good on you for wanting to be part of this time honored tradition.


EDIT: I reread the OP's post and he asked for some recommendations on basic equipment, so here goes:

Scope - it depends somewhat on you and the ranges at which you intend to shoot. A fixed power scope has fewer moving parts and will always be at the same magnification, so that reduces some potential reliability issues as well as facilitating range estimation. The suggestion of a SWFA 10X was a good one although I personally prefer something with better glass, but better glass equals more money. My go-to is usually going to be Nightforce, Schmidt and Bender or US Optics, however I freely admit to being a scope snob. In many cases the difference in optical performance may be slight, and the precision and repeatability of the adjustments may be pretty close, but I'm pretty anal about some things. If you want more versatility I would go with something in the 4-24X variable range. It may allow for more precise shooting at the higher settings, but will also increase some of the issues with mirage, field of view and other factors. Depending on what focal plane the reticle is on will also impact what the reticle does when you change the magnification settings. If you are new to this, then a fixed power may be your best bet.

Rifle - As I said, I prefer a Remington 700 bolt gun as a base platform in standard calibers, but there are MANY other options out there. Savage, Tikka, Ruger and others all make very fine rifles in suitable chamberings. I'm growing to like the Ruger Precision Rifle for "tactical" applications, but all of the aforementioned makers offer a tactical rig as well. This is a choice that will be dictated by personal preference. If you go with a Remington, you may want to look for an older one in good condition...I can see from previous replies that I am not alone in seeing their drop in quality, although even the new ones are still pretty good.

I'm not personally a fan of a semi-auto for a precision rig, but that has more to do with my preferred tactics than lack of accuracy. I don't consider a lower rate of fire an impediment if I make my first shot count, and I don't like to have flying brass potentially giving away my position. There is an edge in reliability with the bolt gun as well in my personal experience, but that's really pretty nominal in reality. With good ammo and a well-built rifle, a semi-auto is going to be pretty bullet-proof under most conditions. If you do want to go the semi route I may not be the right person to ask since I'm a bit old school there. I like the M14/M21 pattern rifles, but have to acknowledge the fact that the AR pattern rifles and others are equally accurate and definitely more accepting of modular attachments.

If I were asked to set up a rig for someone just wanting to get into long range shooting, and wanted a degree of "tacticool" to go with it, and the ability to accessorize the rig, I would likely suggest a Ruger Precision in 6.5 Creedmore with a SWFA 10X with side parallax adjustment. My experience so far with my RPR has exceeded my initial expectations and a rig such as I describe would be capable of being refined and upgraded as the shooter's skill level grows without breaking the bank.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Taxed2Death For This Useful Post:
Old 11-20-2018, 05:00 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,854
Thanks: 2,365
Thanked 15,980 Times in 6,716 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taxed2Death View Post
You've already gotten some great input from the first couple of replies, and you've gotten some others that are mixed in their value so, for what it's worth I'll throw my two cents in for consideration.

First, a .308 or 7.62x51 will start to go transonic at around 800-850yds, so shots beyond that become a little more iffy even if you do properly account for wind, altitude, temperature, humidity, etc. Under those ranges even a sporter rifle in this caliber will be good for a couple of shots, but not for a longer engagement where several shots are fired. There are going to be exceptions to this, but that has been the general rule in my experience. For prolonged shooting (not a good idea from a sniper's perspective BTW), a heavier barrel will typically be more stable. I personally prefer a Remington 700-based rifle for a precision rifle in standard calibers, but Savage and many others offer rifles that are highly accurate right out of the box.

For ranges in the 500yd class most of the high-velocity hunting calibers will suffice, but out past 800yds the "it depends" factor becomes more prevalent. Like, how much past 800yds? 1000yds? 1200yds? 1500yds? For extreme ranges I like the .338 Lapua, but rifles and ammo tend to be pricey, and my particular rifle is NOT a joy to lug around on foot. A 6.5 Creedmore or similar chambering will definitely get you past the 1000yd mark with enough oomph to take out a man-sized target, and will retain an impressive level of accuracy with the right weapon/ammo combo and can be had in a weapon that is in the 10-12lb range scoped and loaded. Heavy, but not too bad provided you are in decent shape. I am playing with a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 right now, and it is showing a lot of promise for a box-stock platform. I'm getting consistent head shots on pigs out at 800yds, and consistent shoulder shots well beyond that, but it is still in the break-in/tweaking stage, so I expect to see even better as time goes on. It is deadly with a headshot and with most shoulder shots to date, but I have had one or two big boars still run off after a solid hit when the projectile failed to penetrate their heavy cartilaginous shoulder sheath when the ranges were in the 1200yd arena. I've had various 300 magnums over the years and the performance on actual live critters has been about the same as with the 6.5, so I consider this about the maximum realistic range for "standard" chamberings. I would likely have fewer penetration issues on deer (which would replicate a human target with light clothing, unlike the pigs which are much thicker skinned), but I just don't want to risk losing a deer whereas pigs are a nuisance animal for me and don't garner the same consideration, so you may be able to extend the effective range a couple of hundred yards on softer targets.

The next question is to your personal skill level. I have decades of shooting at extended ranges and know my abilities and limitations as well as the abilities and limitations of my equipment. I keep these in mind when selecting my position, range, etc. for engaging my selected target. I practice a LOT and take notes on how different conditions impact the performance of my equipment. I know what a clean/cold bore will do versus a fouled one or one that has warmed up. I know what changes when the ambient temperature is 20degF compared to the same setup when it is 80degF outside. I know what happens if the humidity is 90% compared to 60%. I know what to compensate for if I am shooting at 6000ft elevation instead of at sea level. At extreme ranges even MINOR angle changes due to terrain will have a significant effect on your trajectory. To be able to successfully engage targets out beyond much more than 500yds, all of these factors begin to contribute to the equation at an exponential rate as distance increases. If you don't practice, and do so under a variety of conditions, you will not gain the experience needed to make reliable hits even on relatively large targets at extended ranges. You can learn a lot of the needed skills practicing with a 22lr at long-for-caliber ranges, but it is no substitute for the real deal. I do take my sons out regularly to play what we call "the sniper game", which entails shooting at "chi chi" birds (typically sparrows) at ranges of 200-300yds. One of us acts as the shooter, and one as the spotter. All of the considerations for shooting a centerfire at extended ranges are amplified at these ranges when using a 22lr and are good lesson platforms for both inexperienced and experienced shooters. It also helps develop the needed communication and cooperation skills that are essential to a "sniper team", and if you find yourself acting in the sniper role, you really do want to do it as a team if you can. Your team member can act not only as a spotter, but also as security among other roles. There are reasons why the military does this, and not many of us have the ability to emulate Carlos Hathcock and go the "lone wolf" route successfully.

Now, to the SHTF "engage" or "not engage" at long range question. Again, it depends. In my book, unless I absolutely HAVE to, if I have a 300yd head start I'm going to try to evade or disengage rather than engage. There absolutely may be scenarios where this does not apply, but by and large, short of actual warfare, I don't consider taking on an armed human target at ranges out past 300yds to be a "defensive" situation. Again, there most definitely may be exceptions to this but, having been there, it is NO fun putting yourself in a situation where you invite people to shoot back at you. If you do want to have the ability to do this, then not only is marksmanship important, but also fieldcraft. Anchoring yourself to a single location for more than a few shots is a recipe for bad things to happen, so you want to have the skills needed to quickly and discreetly relocate after a shot or two and reengage from a different location, or to disengage and evade.

One last thought...I would refrain from referring to your weapon as a "sniper rifle"...it tends to create unwanted perceptions. "Precision rifle" is my preferred term since it does not arouse misperceptions with the wrong folks, but the weapon systems required carry the same capability. Anyway, long range shooting is a lot of fun, and being proficient at it can afford you a lot of options in a SHTF scenario, so I do solidly encourage developing the skills to do it with confidence and competence. Americans have historically been a nation of riflemen, and this has served us well in the past in securing and preserving our freedom. Hopefully the need will never rise again, but complacency and the lack of preparedness has been the downfall of many a society, so good on you for wanting to be part of this time honored tradition.


EDIT: I reread the OP's post and he asked for some recommendations on basic equipment, so here goes:

Scope - it depends somewhat on you and the ranges at which you intend to shoot. A fixed power scope has fewer moving parts and will always be at the same magnification, so that reduces some potential reliability issues as well as facilitating range estimation. The suggestion of a SWFA 10X was a good one although I personally prefer something with better glass, but better glass equals more money. My go-to is usually going to be Nightforce, Schmidt and Bender or US Optics, however I freely admit to being a scope snob. In many cases the difference in optical performance may be slight, and the precision and repeatability of the adjustments may be pretty close, but I'm pretty anal about some things. If you want more versatility I would go with something in the 4-24X variable range. It may allow for more precise shooting at the higher settings, but will also increase some of the issues with mirage, field of view and other factors. Depending on what focal plane the reticle is on will also impact what the reticle does when you change the magnification settings. If you are new to this, then a fixed power may be your best bet.

Rifle - As I said, I prefer a Remington 700 bolt gun as a base platform in standard calibers, but there are MANY other options out there. Savage, Tikka, Ruger and others all make very fine rifles in suitable chamberings. I'm growing to like the Ruger Precision Rifle for "tactical" applications, but all of the aforementioned makers offer a tactical rig as well. This is a choice that will be dictated by personal preference. If you go with a Remington, you may want to look for an older one in good condition...I can see from previous replies that I am not alone in seeing their drop in quality, although even the new ones are still pretty good.

I'm not personally a fan of a semi-auto for a precision rig, but that has more to do with my preferred tactics than lack of accuracy. I don't consider a lower rate of fire an impediment if I make my first shot count, and I don't like to have flying brass potentially giving away my position. There is an edge in reliability with the bolt gun as well in my personal experience, but that's really pretty nominal in reality. With good ammo and a well-built rifle, a semi-auto is going to be pretty bullet-proof under most conditions. If you do want to go the semi route I may not be the right person to ask since I'm a bit old school there. I like the M14/M21 pattern rifles, but have to acknowledge the fact that the AR pattern rifles and others are equally accurate and definitely more accepting of modular attachments.

If I were asked to set up a rig for someone just wanting to get into long range shooting, and wanted a degree of "tacticool" to go with it, and the ability to accessorize the rig, I would likely suggest a Ruger Precision in 6.5 Creedmore with a SWFA 10X with side parallax adjustment. My experience so far with my RPR has exceeded my initial expectations and a rig such as I describe would be capable of being refined and upgraded as the shooter's skill level grows without breaking the bank.
Great post!
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to PalmettoTree For This Useful Post:
Old 11-20-2018, 07:54 PM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: High country of Arizona
Posts: 5,770
Thanks: 1,504
Thanked 17,922 Times in 4,690 Posts
Default

Agreed, very good post.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to AZ_HighCountry For This Useful Post:
Old 11-20-2018, 08:14 PM
TENNGRIZZ TENNGRIZZ is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: IN TRANSITION
Posts: 7,236
Thanks: 131,742
Thanked 19,379 Times in 5,468 Posts
Default

Imho there are generally 5 groups or categories out there Gunmen , Hunters , Riflemen , Snipers and Killers. some train with 1 weapon only and others use what they have , not what they wish they had. again JMHO and S/FI!
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TENNGRIZZ For This Useful Post:
Old 11-20-2018, 10:10 PM
TENNGRIZZ TENNGRIZZ is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: IN TRANSITION
Posts: 7,236
Thanks: 131,742
Thanked 19,379 Times in 5,468 Posts
Default

I would say go with a BA Savage in 30-06 or 308 or a AR-10 with good glass , the right round and lots practice one could make 1,200 yd shots on a regular basis , 1,500 with lots more practice and some luck. JMHO and S/FI
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to TENNGRIZZ For This Useful Post:
Old 11-21-2018, 01:04 AM
sarco2000's Avatar
sarco2000 sarco2000 is offline
If I had a voice I'd sing
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beyond the Grid, in Montana
Age: 53
Posts: 7,134
Thanks: 14,569
Thanked 22,425 Times in 5,585 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taxed2Death View Post
In many cases the difference in optical performance may be slight, and the precision and repeatability of the adjustments may be pretty close, but I'm pretty anal about some things.
I'm definitely not a scope snob, because I can't afford to be one. And in the past I've wondered what makes a $1000 scope worth the money. Because when I go outside and zero my $300 scopes it seems they are just fine.

But when I was lining up a shot at full zoom on a mountain lion when it was getting dark... then I thought, "Hmm, I guess this is what you get with a $300 scope. Can't see crap.

I wonder if that is the big difference?

.

Last edited by sarco2000; 11-21-2018 at 12:01 PM..
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sarco2000 For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
rifle, scope, sniper



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net