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Old 02-02-2011, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kev View Post
Are we talking about general use weapon? What size game are we hunting? Is this going to be a post-shtf survival rifle?

Feel good rifle - AR15, its lightweight, just about anyone can shoot it, cheap ammo, lots of tacticool. Limited to light weight game animals.
I agree if you consider humans "light weight game animals."

AK is no more "serious" than an AR, IMO. Those two rifles are so evenly matched (though having different strengths), it really comes down to preference.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:36 PM
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Where did you come up with them 'not really making any more' AKs?

Also, if your AR won't eat anything you put in it I would suggest getting a better AR.

What type of AR is this by chance?
Like I said in my original post I don't know much about the AK-47, I have a couple of them and just today acquired two more, however I have been told by several people that the only way you can get them is if they are "parts guns" and someone has built them from an imported kit, or if someone has one that is original and has been imported before a certain date, but then you pay what they ask, or will take for it; because of the importations ban on them, they have to have a certain number of American made parts, etc. etc. or you have to keep them 100% stock as long as they came in before 1988?? or around there. As far as the little research I have done goes everything, coming in from different countries is for parts and the recievers have been chopped up.

Thats why I said "not really" because I know arsenal sells them still, but in my opinion they are expensive. and I am not all that old, but I remember when you could buy an AK for around 300 bucks, now there anywhere from 500 to way up there (gunbroker, gunsamerica)

As far as my AR, I have a rock river (complete rock river) and bushmaster (complete bushmaster), my buddy has a dpms. and NONE of these rifles will feed the herters .223 steel case ammo. So in my opinion these are good AR models, may not be a colt, or les bear, charles daly, or something of that nature but I have limited funds. They all feed any other ammo I have tried, but my AK will run any ammo I have put through it... now I havent tested every box of ammo out there, but rather just a few, and I got what I thought was a really good deal, on that herters .223 ammo, and it ended up being junk. Running it through, old surplus army mags, new metal bushmaster mags, and pmags. but you could see that the ammo didn't have what it took to make the bolt cycle 100%. sometimes it would, most the time it would not, and the guns were clean.

If you have suggestions or, can steer me in the right direction to make this stuff work, or educate me on the AK-47, which honestly I find confusing as all heck, with all the different models, manufacturers etc. Iam always trying to learn more, which is why I said that is my personal experience. If I was wrong I apologize.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:52 PM
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I have the AK 47, and its very nice. I am really wanting a Springfield M1 to fit into my collection.
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Twangbanger View Post
Like I said in my original post I don't know much about the AK-47, I have a couple of them and just today acquired two more, however I have been told by several people that the only way you can get them is if they are "parts guns" and someone has built them from an imported kit, or if someone has one that is original and has been imported before a certain date, but then you pay what they ask, or will take for it; because of the importations ban on them, they have to have a certain number of American made parts, etc. etc. or you have to keep them 100% stock as long as they came in before 1988?? or around there. As far as the little research I have done goes everything, coming in from different countries is for parts and the recievers have been chopped up.

Thats why I said "not really" because I know arsenal sells them still, but in my opinion they are expensive. and I am not all that old, but I remember when you could buy an AK for around 300 bucks, now there anywhere from 500 to way up there (gunbroker, gunsamerica)

As far as my AR, I have a rock river (complete rock river) and bushmaster (complete bushmaster), my buddy has a dpms. and NONE of these rifles will feed the herters .223 steel case ammo. So in my opinion these are good AR models, may not be a colt, or les bear, charles daly, or something of that nature but I have limited funds. They all feed any other ammo I have tried, but my AK will run any ammo I have put through it... now I havent tested every box of ammo out there, but rather just a few, and I got what I thought was a really good deal, on that herters .223 ammo, and it ended up being junk. Running it through, old surplus army mags, new metal bushmaster mags, and pmags. but you could see that the ammo didn't have what it took to make the bolt cycle 100%. sometimes it would, most the time it would not, and the guns were clean.

If you have suggestions or, can steer me in the right direction to make this stuff work, or educate me on the AK-47, which honestly I find confusing as all heck, with all the different models, manufacturers etc. Iam always trying to learn more, which is why I said that is my personal experience. If I was wrong I apologize.
Not sure why those AR's aren't running steel cased ammo - I had an Armalite and have Colt (BCM upper, Colt lower). Both ran Ruskie steel cased ammo just as good as brass ammo.

As far as the AKs go - that is not entirely correct.

Currently there are two imports of AK's that come into the country as 100% rifles - the Saiga and Zastava (Russian and Yugoslavian). There have been others in the past. Both of these rifles are cheap - under $400. They are imported in a sporting configuration and require a certain amount of work to make them original AK configuration (Saiga takes considerably less work).
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:44 PM
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Default ar15 vs ak47 for survival rifle

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Originally Posted by MrMorden View Post
AK is no more "serious" than an AR, IMO. Those two rifles are so evenly matched (though having different strengths), it really comes down to preference.
A couple of months ago, it was either field and steam or outdoor life (I will find the magazine when I get home) that published an article about coyote hunting.

The author wrote about how he used to use 223 to hunt coyotes. But after shooting them for years, he realized that the 223 was not big enough for a quick kill on a coyote. The rest of the article went on to talk about other larger calibers.

That article, and reports coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq have changed my whole outlook on the 223 / 5.56mm.

As for survival rifles, I am about done with the AR-15. Its a nice rifle, I sleep with one next to my bed, carried one in my truck after hurricanes ike and rita, but I just do not see where it plays a roll in a long term survival situation.

If I had to pick 1 well balanced rifle to fit several rolls, its not going to be the AR-15 and its 223.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:12 PM
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Nice to be posting in a thread that Kev's reading and posting in!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Twangbanger View Post
... As far as my AR, I have a rock river (complete rock river) and bushmaster (complete bushmaster), my buddy has a dpms. and NONE of these rifles will feed the herters .223 steel case ammo. So in my opinion these are good AR models, may not be a colt, or les bear, charles daly, or something of that nature but I have limited funds. They all feed any other ammo I have tried, but my AK will run any ammo I have put through it... now I havent tested every box of ammo out there, but rather just a few, and I got what I thought was a really good deal, on that herters .223 ammo, and it ended up being junk. Running it through, old surplus army mags, new metal bushmaster mags, and pmags. but you could see that the ammo didn't have what it took to make the bolt cycle 100%. sometimes it would, most the time it would not, and the guns were clean...
My experience is about the same as Sprout47. No problem with Russian steel case including Herter's from Cabelas - in my ArmaLite or Daniel Defense upper/S&W lower. So I keep on buying Herter's or Tula white box each time it's on sale. I use good stuff too but run a lot of the cheap stuff down the bores, why not! If yours doesn't, something is amiss, maybe a gas leakage or very heavy buffer/spring or excessive friction. Check the gas key staking... Might as well figure out what's going on. Strange though since you're talking multiple ARs. But so am I, and my buddy's Bushmaster handles Herters as well. Odd... Maybe there was a bad batch.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev View Post
A couple of months ago, it was either field and steam or outdoor life (I will find the magazine when I get home) that published an article about coyote hunting.

The author wrote about how he used to use 223 to hunt coyotes. But after shooting them for years, he realized that the 223 was not big enough for a quick kill on a coyote. The rest of the article went on to talk about other larger calibers.

That article, and reports coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq have changed my whole outlook on the 223 / 5.56mm.

As for survival rifles, I am about done with the AR-15. Its a nice rifle, I sleep with one next to my bed, carried one in my truck after hurricanes ike and rita, but I just do not see where it plays a roll in a long term survival situation.

If I had to pick 1 well balanced rifle to fit several rolls, its not going to be the AR-15 and its 223.
Strange considering that 5.56mm is a popular white tail deer cartridge around here Kev.

I use 77 gr. TAP rounds for my deer hunting.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:46 PM
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GAAAAHHH Oh noes, not again!!
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:13 PM
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Even I am tired of this subject....


My recommendation, buy both they're cheap.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:17 PM
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Like the chocolate or vanilla argument.

Course, I always used the Chevy or Ford or Plymoth reasoning. But dang, they quit making the Plymoth.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:31 PM
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The only real differences between AKs and ARs are the sights...

Both are very reliable, and both can be quite accurate.

Look hard at the AKs that Arsenal sells...They are the cream of the crop, and you won't regret your purchase...

If you decide to go with an AR, don't purchase one of the bottom-of-the-barrel ARs that are so common (DPMS, Olympic, etc.)

No matter what you buy, go with a higher end weapon that you won't mind staking your life on its performance.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:36 PM
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ford or chevy?
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:38 PM
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Winter or Summer
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:47 PM
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I say we keep posting ar vs ak threads until the Mods finally sticky some of these endless rabble debates.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev View Post
That article, and reports coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq have changed my whole outlook on the 223 / 5.56mm.
.
I have taught troops that were soon-to-be-deployed that could not hit the proverbial broadside of a barn, from inside the barn. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing someone that is about to be on a two-way range that literally cannot hit a target reliably...I know if they can't hit a target on a nice grassy range, they sure won't be able to hit anything in a desert with lead flying around their ears...

The issue with the 5.56 calibre is that the soldiers fielding these weapons have not been properly trained in the area of marksmanship.

Again, the calibre is not the problem, it is the little issue of hitting your target.


There are quite a few people around the world that would be more than willing to comment on the effectiveness of the 5.56, but they were all killed by said round, so they can't speak as to its effectiveness....



My main issue with increasing the calibre, is that you get increased recoil, increased muzzle report, and no real advantages in most situations.

I also find that no .308 rifle can come close to the AR (or AK) in terms of overall length, something which is very important, especially if you are going to be in and out of vehicles on a regular basis.


If you must have a .308 for your main rifle, the DSA FALs are pretty nice...
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:15 PM
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The AR is superior for longer range shooting in plains where longer range shots are more common. If I were fighting in Iowa or on the steppes of Russia, I would go with the AR.

The AK is better for jungles, forests and built-up areas. The 7.62X39 does a better job at penetrating brush ect. Its effective range is a little less.

One has to select the better tool for the particular job. Both rifles can do just about everything adequately
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:37 PM
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Neither. Both are carbines-not rifles. If you want a real MBR, get an M1A, FAL, or AR10.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Do we have to have another AK vs AR thread? Every single gun forum, since day one has had at least one of these threads weekly since the day they opened. In fact, it's likely that it was the first thread to appear on their site. All you have to do is read any of the thousands of AK vs AR threads to get the same arguements over and over.

Personally, I own several of both. It's strictly a matter of preference. Nothing more. Though the fanboys of each can invent a thousand reasons why they think the other gun sucks.
45 vs 9mm then?

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Old 02-03-2011, 08:57 AM
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What would consider as your main Survival weapon? I know the 223 round is used for hunting all over the US and is widely used for different types of prey. Would you jump to the 308?
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrightenedWolfe View Post
I have taught troops that were soon-to-be-deployed that could not hit the proverbial broadside of a barn, from inside the barn. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing someone that is about to be on a two-way range that literally cannot hit a target reliably...I know if they can't hit a target on a nice grassy range, they sure won't be able to hit anything in a desert with lead flying around their ears...

The issue with the 5.56 calibre is that the soldiers fielding these weapons have not been properly trained in the area of marksmanship.

Again, the calibre is not the problem, it is the little issue of hitting your target.


There are quite a few people around the world that would be more than willing to comment on the effectiveness of the 5.56, but they were all killed by said round, so they can't speak as to its effectiveness....



My main issue with increasing the calibre, is that you get increased recoil, increased muzzle report, and no real advantages in most situations.

I also find that no .308 rifle can come close to the AR (or AK) in terms of overall length, something which is very important, especially if you are going to be in and out of vehicles on a regular basis.


If you must have a .308 for your main rifle, the DSA FALs are pretty nice...
You left off the Springfield M1a. Talk about reaching out to your target with some power.
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